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Post by fatherpuppy on Jun 29, 2013 11:44:34 GMT -7
Hi everybody,
My story began about a year ago when my dog Lola (a 10 lb Bijon-Yorkie Mix) began having episodes that I thought were seizures. She would walk around cringing and shaking, holding up a paw or a hind leg. These episodes would only last a few seconds and then she would go back to normal, perhaps a bit exhausted afterwards. A trip to the vet found nothing, just a slight tenderness in her back. The vet prescribed Rimadyl and a muscle relaxer and rest. The episodes stopped until recently. A few weeks back, Lola began being restless at night. Up and down out of the bed, scratching at the side of the bed, wanting attention. We would take her outside, and sometimes she would just chew grass, other times she would just stand there. In addition, her gate seemed a bit off, like it was painful to walk in her hips, almost like she was limping but not all the time. She also had an episode similar to the ones she was having a year ago. One of these episodes was so painful to her that she actually urinated a bit and some drool came out of her mouth.
A trip to the vet found nothing at first. Blood and urine tests came back negative. The vet noticed some slight tenderness in her back but didnt think much of it. The restlessness continued and we decided an xray was in order. The vet saw nothing on the xray, but a consulting radiologist found "a slight narrowing of a disc space in the lumbar area (L1L2) and suggeted that there may be a disc herniation." Im not sure how strong of a diagnosis others have gotten, but based on this and her symptoms that she has displayed, I am fairly confident that this is a correct diagnosis. The vet prescribed Tramadol, and Lola has been taking it for the last few days. We discussed Rimadyl, but Lola had diahrrea at the time, perhaps a result of the meds she was given as anesthesia before her xrays, so we stayed away from the Rimadyl because she said it can cause GI problems. The vet said that the next steps were "exercise restriction, pain and inflammation management, and if she worsens, consultation with a neurologist who might suggest an MRI". The vet said nothing about crate rest so I wonder what her experience with IVDD might be. We have limited her walks, just down to go and then back up. But other than that, we have not crated her. I have a feeling that we are going to have to do this, after reading everything I see on this forum.
Unfortunately my wife is not as onboard with crating as I am. She cannot handle seeing the dog in the crate, especially crying and scratching to get out. I just wish our vet would say that crating is necessary. I called the vet back today after finding this website. I spoke with a tech and told her that Lola is still jumping off the bed, up on the couch. She told me that she should not be doing this. I explained that there is no way for us to continually monitor her like that. It was at this point that she told us that crating her might be necessary, but only at night and when we are not present to monitor her.
Any and all advice is welcome as to what I should do. I feel like I know I should be crating her for 8 weeks as prescribed here according to the conservative approach, but without a vet saying this and my wife not onboard I am torn as to what the right thing to do is. Please help!
Shawn and Lola
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 29, 2013 12:59:12 GMT -7
Hi Shawn, my name is Maureen. Welcome to Dodgers List, I'm glad that you found us. I'm sorry that Lola is experiencing an IVDD episode. You are right about getting her fuzzy self confined ASAP! 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help chili-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. Lola might fuss a bit about being confined - we have to be tough, it is for their own good. We have all been through this, and we understand how hard it is. There are things that we can do to help them to be calm. Here is another link that is a great place to start educating yourself about IVDD, www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmIs Lola on Pepcid or sulcralfte to protect her stomach from the other medications? You can get Pepcid from the drugstore over the counter. There is so much information here - it will help you to educate your Vet too, not all Vets are versed in IVDD treatment, so it is up to us as pet parents to learn  I don't want to overwhelm you with information - we are all here to help any way that we can. Keeping you in thought and prayer. |
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Post by fatherpuppy on Jun 29, 2013 21:43:45 GMT -7
Maureen, thank you for the information. I am surprised that my vet has been so conservative in their approach. They really dont seem to know much about IVDD, or theyre not convinced that this is an IVDD case. We are going to look into getting another vet this week, with more experience with IVDD.
I will definitely go out and get some pepcid as well.
One other concern is Lola's pooping. She is one that usually takes a while to do her business. She is used to our long walks around the lake before she eliminates. She did not poop at all today. Is it safe to let her walk around a bit until she poops? Any tips to get her to do her business? Or is this just something that she will learn on her own?
Thank you for your advice.
Shawn
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 30, 2013 4:40:23 GMT -7
Dear Shawn, It's better to be safe than sorry. I know how hard it is to think of a dog in a crate for 8 weeks. My Jeremy, a Cocker Spaniel, is a very active dog and is currently on crate rest for his second disc episode. I didn't know about IVDD a year and a half ago. Jeremy exhibited discomfort in walking (walking slowly with head hanging down). I thought he was just tired from a day at the beach the day before. By evening, he was trembling (which turned out to be from pain) and he peed on the floor and I took him to the ER where he was diagnosed with IVDD. I wasn't told to crate rest, just not to let him have the full run of the house, no stairs and no exercise walks. In fact, the vet walked him down a long hall to have him weighed, walked him back and walked him out to the parking lot. By the next afternoon, Jeremy's hind legs were completely paralyzed with no deep pain sensation. He had spinal surgery and almost didn't make it. It took a year to get him walking again and he still does not walk normally and he is completely incontinent. This time, being aware of the risks, as soon as Jeremy exhibited back pain, he was taken to the vet for pain medication and steroids to get the inflammation down and then crated. This was a week ago and he still shows no signs of new neurological deficits, thank goodness. My local vet doesn't treat spines at all. The only one at this ER who really seems to know anything about IVDD is the neurosurgeon who operated. Jeremy is back under her care. I found, though, that even she did not have as much knowledge as this group does, at least not as to follow up care, such as acupuncture, use of stairs, etc. She treats many diseases other than IVDD, while IVDD is this group's only interest and built up on years of experience. I truly believe that this group is the No. 1 place to get advice and guidance on IVDD. When you hunt for a new doctor for Lola, see if you can find a neurosurgeon. At least they understand the spine. And then stick with this group and post any questions you might have. Here are some tips on finding a vet with IVDD experience: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmAnd here are some vet recommendations from other members: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-postingAs for the pooping, I can't advise you as to that since Jeremy has been incontinent, both bladder and bowels, since his first disc herniation. I would think that when Lola really has to go, she will. I'm sure others will advise you as to that. I wish you the best with Lola and I hope she does well. Marjorie |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 30, 2013 9:10:55 GMT -7
Shawn, welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you are here. Maureen and Marjorie speak with a good depth of understanding on this disease. IVDD is a disease that most owners do not understand when they first get a diagnosis. and there are still some vet's who are not comfortable in treating the disease. I'm so glad to hear that you are stepping up to the plate to get educated yourself….that is the oNLY way you can be sure Lola is getting the the right meds, the right care. It also puts you into a position to recognize when harmful advice is being given and ignore it. You can have a quality discussion and ask the right questions of the vet too. If you need to hire a new IVDD knowledgeable vet you are better equipped to do that. Please help your wife to be educated too…education is how one can be committed to the the strict rest conservative treatment demands. This page will help her get a good overview, plus the video clip there will let her see what happens when crate rest is ignored: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmWhining is irritating. Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Anytime Lola is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will learn which of the behaviors receive reward. Rambuctious behavior can not be permitted if you follow strict Rest rules. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Other brands may be available in your area… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label. Shawn, we can be of best help to you if you can fill us in on these important details: -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? That would mean the pain meds are not yet properly prescribed. -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color firmness, no dark or bright red blood? Tramadol is a med that can cause constipation. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato. At potty times it is imperative only the very fewest of footsteps to get the job is permitted. You stand in one spot and the 6 foot leash and harness allow only a few footsteps for Lola. A sling would be used if you are seeing her wobbly walking to help her keep her back aligned and butt from tipping over. We look foward to learning more about Lola with the answers to your questions. |
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