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Post by welovebailey on Jun 25, 2013 18:14:47 GMT -7
I posted a thread just a few minutes ago, regarding our beagle Bailey having lost the use of her back legs just today. She does still have deep pain sensation... I am wondering if acupuncture, chiropractic care of any kind, or laser therapy could help her to regain use of her legs? Thanks so much in advance for your help! Sarah Thank you so much for your time-- any and all help / thoughts / ideas are appreciated more than you can know... Our beloved family pet, Bailey (a 6 1/2 year old Beagle) has just lost the use of her back legs today...something that has absolutely broken my heart. I just can't stop crying...I have been searching for any ideas or comfort online, and came across dodgerslist. On Saturday (3 days ago) she displayed symptoms of being in pain (whimpering or squealing if one of us would try to pick her up, not wanting to go up or down any stairs, crouching/ hiding under the table, and just not at all herself). She had displayed this same exact behavior exactly 2 years ago, and the vet said she had most likely injured her back. He had prescribed her rimadyl for pain, and said to restrict her movement as much as possible. So, when this happened Saturday, he prescribed the same pain medication. I didn't know anything about restricted crate rest, so I just tried to keep her from doing a lot of movement, which was not hard because she just wanted to lay on her dog pillow. But, once the pain meds started working for the pain, she started moving around a lot more and even going up / down stairs. I was thrilled, thinking she was getting so much better already! Then, yesterday (Monday, June 24) in the afternoon, it looked like she was walking a little funny-- almost like she was favoring her back leg as if she'd hurt her leg. It had me very worried, but I hoped she had just pulled a muscle and would be fine in a few days. This morning when I got up to let her out to potty, I saw she could barely walk at all -- her legs buckling underneath her. I started crying hysterically, not knowing what was happening, and called the vet right away. He said to get her in asap, and that they would start her on steroids ( prednisone 10 mg) and tramadol for pain. I frantically started researching online as well for any help, and found Dodgerslist, which recommended strict crate rest (something I desperately wish I had known about on Saturday already...). I put her in a crate, and then took her out at 2pm to bring her to the vet. At this point, she had lost use of her legs completely...I was absolutely devastated and horrified...sobbing all the way to the vet clinic. The vet did a thorough exam, and said the prognosis is very grim-- that she will most likely be completely paralyzed for life unless we did surgery...something that is heartbreakingly not an option for us due to finances...so he said we could still give her the steroids, but that more than likely the steroids would do nothing to help. He did say she did still have "deep pain sensation" which he said is the last neurological thing to go before complete paralysis. So....I brought her home, gave her the meds, and put her back into the crate. At the vet, she was so scared and upset and pooped all over the exam table.  He said this was further indication of loss of feeling. She has not urinated in her crate yet, but I let her out to go potty this morning when she could still walk, and she has hardly eaten or drank anything for days. So I am asking anyone who can help: what are thoughts as far as her prognosis? It absolutely kills me to think she may never walk again or wag that beautiful tail... Is there anything I can do (in a cost-wise fashion) to help her recover? Is there any hope of her being able to stand/ walk again? How do I get her to urinate / deficate when she cannot stand on her own? Is there somewhere that I can buy dog diapers? How do I get her to eat or drink? She is extremely anxious and depressed right now, and has no interest in eating or drinking at all... This whole experience is beyond heartbreaking-- it is impossible to put into words....I just am looking for any hope or suggestions of any kind. Thank you so much for your time! Sincerely, Sarah, Cody, Cooper, and our precious Bailey |
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jun 25, 2013 18:50:24 GMT -7
My name is Stacy and I am so sorry to hear what has happenend to Bailey. My doxie Fred has a very similar story as your Bailey. We are 3 weeks (Thursday) into conservative and I can tell you there is hope!! I can't give medical advise but a moderator should be on shortly to help. They truley have been awesome. I can tell you that I believe that my Freddy would not be walking if I didn't find this site. Hang in there and remeber..THERE IS HOPE!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 25, 2013 19:12:34 GMT -7
Hi my name is Maureen, what's yours? I am so sorry that you and Bailey are going through an IVDD epsiode. Please don't despair, your Vet is so very very wrong! And unfortunately unfamiliar with treating IVDD. Your dog CAN recover with Conservative treatment - if you need a success story just look at my Stevie - she had this happen (twice)and was paralysed too the first time- she walks - kind of funny, but she walks:) Things that we need to know to give you the best help, Are you doing 100% crate rest now - only out to potty - and potty with support from a sling? What are the medications and dosages that Bailey is one right now?? What are Bailey's signs a symptoms right now? Able to potty? Tail wagging? Is pain under control? There is so much for you to learn - a good place to start is www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmWe are here for you and will help you any way that we can. Read, read, read, ask questions and consider looking for a Vet with IVDD experience, or at least one that is willing to learn along with you about IVDD. The surgery or death prognosis is BS (sorry, but is really isn't true) Here is a link that talks about the benefits of surgery and the benefits of conservative treatment- each has their place. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmKeeping you in thought and prayer(((hugs))) |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 25, 2013 20:27:20 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Sarah! You have come to the right place. As Maureen said your Vet is wrong about the grim prognosis. There is every hope Bailey will recover with Conservative treatment. DAMAGED DISCS take about 8 weeks to heal and form secure scar tissue during conservative treatment. There are no medications that help this along—only time and limited movement of the back and neck with STRICT crate rest. When a dog walks and moves, the vertebrae move, tearing down the important scar tissue that is forming to stabilize the disc rupture. Anytime out of the crate is a dangerous time for a healing disc. Only potty time and vet appointments are a necessity to be out of the crate. Be diligent about crate rest, cheating on crate rest promotes damage to the disc: no chiropractic therapy, no couches, no sleeping with you, no baths, or water therapy during the 8 weeks of conservative treatment's crate rest. Medications can work on the inflammation and mask the pain but crate rest does the rest. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmREGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. Acupuncture and Laser Therapy stimulate the cell’s metabolism that leads to the body’s natural repair abilities and can be started at any time. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmHere is how to lift and carry Bailey.. I know she is bigger but the principal is the same.. Have your Vet or Vet tech teach you how to express Bailey for urine and bowel movement.. Here is a video that shows you how so you can get more out of your lesson from the Vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Doggie diapers aren't a good idea as dogs hate being in their waste..and it can cause skin irritations. Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. When using either a steroid or NSAID, an acid reducer such as Pepcid AC is necessary. Dodgerslist follows those vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach, choosing not to wait until a bleeding ulcer or life-threatening stomach perforation happens. NOTE: FDA and manufacturer package inserts warn against use of a NSAID with a steroid or with another NSAID without a washout period of 4 to 7 days before starting the new medication. Vets that practice safe medicine require a 4- to 7-day washout period between the medications. I am concerned that the Vet gave Bailey Rimadyl and then switched to Prednisone without stopping the Rimadyl for 4-7 days. She needs not only Pepcid AC to protect her stomach from acid produced by stress as well as NSAIDS and Prednisone.. and she also needs Sucralfate to heal the damage to her stomach from the rapid change from Rimadyl to Prednisone. She isn't eating for this reason and her tummy needs Sucralfate to heal so she can get back to eating and healing. What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Oh how I understand the how upset you are.. I went through this very thing with my beloved Tyler, who woke up without the use of his back legs.. I cried too, but I was told not to cry in front of Tyler as it scares them, because they think they did something wrong. I was told to be upbeat and cheerful in front of him as he recovered.. It was hard but I took their advice and it did help to ease Tyler's anxiety. The most inportant thing is to read, read and read some more about IVDD. The more you know the better able you are to help Bailey recover. Here are some of our success stories to give you hope! www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htmIVDD is a disease that can be lived with and managed. Please read this, it will help you to feel better. www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm and also how to make your home back friendly. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmHealing wishes over the miles! |
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jun 25, 2013 20:27:41 GMT -7
Hi Sarah, I'm sorry to hear of Bailey having an IVDD episode. Are you sure she has bowel and bladder control. Have you tried a sniff and pee test. If not, it will be necessary for you to get a lesson from your vet on expressing. Since Bailey is on a steroid, she will need a stomach protector such a Pepcid. Ask the vet if there is any reason she shouldn't be taking one. You also asked about acupuncture and chiropractic. Acupuncture and laser therapy are very good for IVDD. Chiro is not recommended. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htmIVDD is a disease of time and patience. Remember to be upbeat around Bailey. She will pick up on your emotions. Keeping you in our thoughts. |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 25, 2013 21:12:29 GMT -7
Hi, I'm really sorry to hear about your Bailey. Our Tucker has been in paralysis since the 14. Without this site I wouldn't have known what to do. I just took Tucker to his first accupunture with laser apppintment today. Things went very well. I can already see see a small change. It's only been one visit but recommend it. I can also recommend reading as much as you can on this site. This is a wealth of knowlage you want your brain to know. Without my research on here I wouldn't have know to ask some of the questions to the accupunturist. Remember 100% crate rest! Only out to potty. We are sending positive and healing thoughts your way.
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 25, 2013 22:55:03 GMT -7
My biggest thing that I am struggling with right now....how do I survive this emotional trauma / guilt that is literally ripping me apart...I cannot stop crying / sobbing, because I think, if I had just researched this topic on Sunday, when Bailey's back was just hurt--before she had lost use of her legs...I could have found Dodgerslist, and I could have saved her from this. Her prognosis would be 100% better than it is today. How do I survive these feelings?? I am so completely devastated by my lack of finding answers early enough. How do I look at her without feeling like a complete an utter failure as her doggie Mommy? I don't understand why I didn't research sooner. This mistake could cost Bailey the ability to ever walk again, and I don't know how to deal with that. |
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 26, 2013 3:27:22 GMT -7
We have all all gone through this at some point. You have to realize that you couldn't have known. I went through the same thing and this site has done wonders for me. Even my vets said don't beat yourself up over it there was nothing we could have done. Keep doing your research here and things will brighten up. You have to send a good energy to Bailey in order for him to heal. Stay strong. Things will get better. ((Hugs))
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jun 26, 2013 6:19:10 GMT -7
Stop..what is done is done..you trusted your vet and frankly they should have told you to crate Bailey immediately! Fred (my doxie) has a very simialr story. Vet put him on med and said he needed rest. I was good with that..felt better.. I let Fred roam the house and was even happy when he chased lizards...then Fred started to limp..took him back to vet..vet gave more meds and said let him rest...Grrrr...makes me mad just thinking about it..so..Fred still roamed the house..Fred got worse and started wobbly walking and wouldnt move. I took Fred to different vet and he told me to crate him. If I didn't want to put Fred through surgery to crate him. I did..the new vet new to flush the meds out before putting him on steroid and even gave him femintone for his belly. Fred seems to be doing good so far..since he has been crated he is doing much better he now walks..full tail wag  when I came to this site I was horrified that I let Fred roam the house and run (which I thought was a good sign). I cried and freaked A LOT! Fred now has a limp .. more like a strut that he wouldn't have had I knew better. hurts to watch knowing I could have stopped it. Know that you are a good doggie mama..we can't know everything and you doing everything you can for your baby. It is obvious how much you love Bailey. Now..deep breathe stay strong your baby needs you now. Be positive around Bailey..when you hurt they hurt. You got this and you are not alone saying prayers for both of you. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 26, 2013 7:57:08 GMT -7
I know how hard this is, really I do, just remember that guilt won't help Bailey now and he could be upset by your distress. Focus on the positive - you have gotten the right help now and are doing the best for him that you can. Believe that he will get well and he will feel your strength and confidence. You can do this and we will do all we can to help. Keeping you in thought and prayer (((hugs)))
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 8:47:32 GMT -7
Sarah, Don't beat yourself up, we won't let you! My Tyler woke up without the ability to walk at the end of January.. I felt just as you do now but my Vet told me to have faith in his recovery, that she would make it so and she did! I came home, and researched and found Dodgerslist and found out all I didn't know before.. Lots of people come here in crisis with IVDD and go forward from there.. They didn't know before either but what counts is what you know now!! See all the replies from the newbies of a few weeks ago? They and their dogs are living proof that it does get better as the days go by.. Focus now on being Bailey's nurse, that is your important focus for right now.. Go forward from here with confidence and believe me, Bailey will recover and be happy. Let us put your mind at ease, because your dog CAN have a great quality of life living with IVDD. "Quality of life is totally a matter of perspective. There is our human perspective; and then, there is the dog’s perspective – and they are as different as night and day. Our perspective is relatively complicated. By comparison, a dog’s perspective is surprisingly simple. A good quality of life for our dogs is: Food and treats. Safe, comfy place to sleep preferably with some blankets. A family’s love. It’s that simple. Believe it or not, how your dog gets from point A to point B isn’t a big deal and doesn’t factor into what makes him or her happy. Wobbly walking is fine; scooting is good; wheels are great! No matter what level of ability your dog achieves after recovery, your dog will be happy and loving life as long as those three basic, but very simple, requirements of food, a safe, comfy place to sleep with blankets, and a family’s love are met. The real goal is being pain free. As long as your dog is pain free, he or she will move forward confidently and courageously never looking back, never having regrets, never questioning “why.” Dogs live in the “now.” They don’t worry about what happened yesterday or what tomorrow may bring. Dogs don’t know pity. They don’t know “can’t.” They don’t understand “may never.” They don’t give up. They don’t get discouraged. They epitomize “where there is a WILL, there is a WAY.” They will find a way! They don’t give up easily or quickly. They move forward in life in the best way they can. They don’t care if they can walk again. They care about your love most importantly. OK, food ranks right up near the top too! To them each new day brings the promise of another opportunity to get MORE - more food, more treats, and more love. We can all learn to look at life through the eyes of our beloved dog.. Our challenge is clear: not to allow our perspective on quality of life to influence our decisions or cloud how we judge our dog’s quality of life living with IVDD. Part of that challenge is to manage our fear and not look at the situation based on how WE would perceive things if it were to happen to us. We need to keep in mind what THEY value and help support them in their journey in life. Right now, your dog needs your support to help them become pain free and heal so they can resume their journey in life and the things they value in whatever way they can. |
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 26, 2013 9:15:01 GMT -7
*t *Thank you so much everyone for your incredibly kind thoughts and words...I have had to try to calm myself down and focus my thinking on helping her--for her sake, and because I am only about 2 months along pregnant (High risk pregnancy due to miscarriage) and a busy 18 month old beautiful boy who keeps me very busy...they all need me to be strong. It's just so hard not to beat myself up for ignorance / bad decisions.. I do have some very positive (I hope?) news as of this morning though-- when I took Bailey out of her crate to help her potty, she stood all on her own for just a little bit, and wagged her tail a bunch because she was sooo happy to see me this morning!!!! That really made me feel a bit better, and gives me a glimmer of hope. Are those little things a good sign? At one point, I thought I had closed the crate door and latched it, but it must not have latched all the way, because all of a sudden, she pushed through the door, and walked out!!!! A very unsteady wobbly walk, but a walk nonetheless! I really hope these are good signs... Also, I did have a question-- it is only day 2 of being in a crate, and she HATES it!!! She has never been crated before, and hates being shut up in something. She cries a lot..which I try to ignore..I just am not sure how she is going to deal with 8 weeks. She is an extremely anxious dog by nature anyway, and she is very worked up about this whole situation. Does anyone know of some safe sedatives I could give her to help her stay calm to be able to rest through these 8 weeks? Something that would not hurt her tummy, and that I could pick up locally? Do you happen to know where I could find a sedative for her? THanks so much for your help!!! PS here is her current medication list: (keep in mind she is about 35-40 lbs--a Beagle mixed with Walker so she is a bit bigger of a dog) Tramadol 50mg : 1 and a 1/2 tablets 2x a day Prednisone 10mg : 1 and a 1/2 tablets 2x a day for 7 days, and then 1 tablet 2x per day for the next 7 days Pepcid AC (famotidine)-- generic form. 10mg tablet 30 minutes prior to steroid med. (I give her the whole 10mg tablet and have her chew it directly VS wrapping it in food so it absorbs more quickly). I give her the whole thing because she is a bigger dog than a doxie. 2 more quick things: because I am early pregnant with a high risk pregnancy, I cannot lift her...I just try to help her out of the crate as much as possible and then try to express her bladder / clean her up. My husband helps when he gets home later at night. I hope this is ok... Should I start some of the massage / PT techniques right away, or give her a week to rest first? I don't want to hurt her any further... ALso, I am thinking about doing either acupuncture or laser therapy if we can afford it, but I don't know if I want to bring her in for that just yet...yesterday's trip to the vet was soooo traumatic for her, and I think it may have made her even worse. I feel like the less trips out of the house for right now, the better.. what do you think? I don't want her to be set back further by traumatic trips to a vet, but I don't know if I should start one of those as soon as possible to help. Any thoughts would be so helpful~ Thank you so much! I am trying to figure out how to express the bladder...the vet tech showed me but was not very helpful or patient, and so I am quite frustrated as I can't get it. I have watched several videos, but all are about Doxie's, and her body is quite different as she is a Beagle / Walker mix. (about a 35 pound dog). Any help or thoughts on this is greatly appreciated (she is just leaking onto puppy pads, and hates that she is getting herself dirty. I am trying to clean her with baby wipes as best as I can..poor Bailey!) I'm also worried about sores from the urine or a UTI. She has no bladder control currently. Thanks again in advance for all your time and help! Don't know what I would do without this website!!! Sarah and Bailey |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 9:56:30 GMT -7
You have a lot on your plate right now and you need all the calm you can get. Congrats on the new baby to be..and take good care of yourself. Very important right now.. I am sure you have your hands full with your 18 month old.. You can also look into some calmers to help Bailey relax in his crate. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based with 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo www.bachrescueremedypet.com |
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 26, 2013 9:58:24 GMT -7
Thanks so much! I actually found all 3 of those calmers on amazon.com, and wondered if you have a recommendation as far as which one works best (and would be ok for her stomach)?
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 26, 2013 10:00:28 GMT -7
And would I have to use a pheromone diffuser with it, or could I give her the oral calmer alone?
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 10:27:13 GMT -7
Many members have had success with Composure Soft Chews.. The pheromone diffuser and Composure soft chews as a combination would be the way to go.. Amazon is fast but you may be able to find these locally at your local pet shop. Phone them to ask.. I found the Comfort Zone Diffuser at Walmart in their pet section.. Another thing to do is to drape a light towel over the top of the crate, that is very calming for most dogs.. Makes it more cave or den like.. By the way what type of crate are you using? Is it an open wire crate or a plastic airline carrier type? When you take Bailey to the vet or in the car make sure his crate has some rolled up towels for cushioning around the sides so he won't be hurt on the ride.. You will need help in moving the crate from your husband. Not sure what happened that was traumatic on the last trip to the Vet..Did something else happen so we can help advise for a better next trip. Believe me when I say there are solutions for most everything.. I really think he needs to see a Vet that is more experienced in IVDD to get things working in the right direction. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm |
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 26, 2013 10:56:00 GMT -7
I do have some very positive (I hope?) news as of this morning though-- when I took Bailey out of her crate to help her potty, she stood all on her own for just a little bit, and wagged her tail a bunch because she was sooo happy to see me this morning!!!! That really made me feel a bit better, and gives me a glimmer of hope.
Are those little things a good sign? At one point, I thought I had closed the crate door and latched it, but it must not have latched all the way, because all of a sudden, she pushed through the door, and walked out!!!! A very unsteady wobbly walk, but a walk nonetheless! I really hope these are good signs...
Please let me know from your experience if these are good signs for hope of a recovery / regain use of legs. Thank you!
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 12:18:55 GMT -7
Those are the best signs you can hope for! Means she is beginning to heal, so keep up the crate rest for the full 8 weeks for her recovery and her medications..Let her walk only a very few steps. No stairs at all for this early healing disc or ever..(ramps!) or it could tear.. Since you can't carry her outside, if she has a potty pad in the house observe her for sniffing and peeing.. It could mean her bladder control is returning.. If it hasn't yet, it may soon..  Since she is on Prednisone, it should be making her very thirsty which means she will need to pee more on the order of about every 3 hours.. If she goes, express her afterwards to make sure her bladder is empty. That should cut down on accidents.. Expressing is something that takes lots of practice so don't be discouraged if it takes time to get the hang of it.. Another reason to find a vet with a team that is willing to teach you and work with you..
Keep on getting better Bailey girl!
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 26, 2013 18:25:18 GMT -7
Wow you do have a lot on your plate Sarah. We are going through this with our Tucker a Dachshund. Any little sign of improvement to you is improvement. Tucker has been on crate rest for 11 days now. A week ago he couldn't even hold his bladder as I picked him up. Now he can hold it until we go out to potty. We have started acupuncture / laser yesterday and its very relaxing! As soon as she put the first needle in his head ( I know that sounds awful) he pooped. That's a sign of relaxing. Our first visit/consultation was $100. Follow ups are $46. Not sure where you are from but just thought I'd give you an idea of what it could cost. He loved our acupuncturist. He definitely had a good time there. Even after freaking out in the waiting room. Prayers and healing vibes sent to you and Bailey! Oh and stay positive with your energy not just for Bailey but for yourself and your family.
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 26, 2013 18:57:52 GMT -7
I have a quick question regarding bladder control... I just got to thinking today about this whole thing and it has me wondering...
A little bit of background: Bailey has always been a very "shy" potty dog-- meaning she does NOT like to be watched in any way while she goes out to go potty. When I would let her out in the past, she would actually "eye" up the door, and if she saw me anywhere nearby watching out the door/ window, she would either not go potty till I walked away, or she would wander off to a different spot where I couldn't see her.
So now...this is very traumatic for her to have to try to pee right in front of us, especially when she has little use of her legs just yet. I honestly think she cant relax enough to go with us right there. We've NEVER been able to get her to go potty on a leash before (in all of her 6 years).
SO when she started peeing in her crate on her potty pad, I assumed right away that she has lost bladder control. However, every time, right before she goes pee, she tries to get up in her crate and whines. So I bring her out to go potty, which she doesn't do, and then I try to express her, but even after 2 lessons at the vet and watching countless instructional videos, I cannot get a good hold / feel on her bladder, much less squeeze anything out no matter how much pressure I apply. Then right after I put her back in her crate, she pees on her pad-- not just a little leaking, but a LOT! Like she has totally emptied her bladder.
I noticed today and yesterday she never just "leaks" or constantly "dribbles" urine out, even when I lift / help her out of her crate and try to express her full bladder.
And as a side note, she has not had one poop accident yet. I got her to go poop on the potty pad when I brought her out one time today (she really had to go!!!).
SO.....do you think maybe she really hasn't lost bladder control, but that she just can't relax to go with me right there, supporting her back?
ALSO-- the vet and vet tech could not even express her bladder when they were trying to show me. They finally just said, well this is where her bladder is, this is how you squeeze, and how much to squeeze. If she has bladder control, it would be impossible to express her bladder right??
I really appreciate any thoughts/ ideas / help on this...Thank you!!!
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 26, 2013 19:45:32 GMT -7
I think that if you bring her out and bring treats with you almost like house breaking again you may get results. Tucker's loss of bladder control was just that he'd pee as soon as he was picked up and couldn't contol it. Remember if you try this method keep her calm if she pees and with the reward. With a soft "good girl". This is the trainer in me talking also remember if feeding treats and she is taking to this method to take some food away from meal times. I think you mentioned she is on prednisone? If so that will make her more thirsty and Hungary. Make sure she has water in the crate. Being on the prednisone will make her drink more water which will fill the bladder more and could end up in leaking in the crate. Also try to make sure you use people pee pads rather than puppy pads. Puppy pads have an attractive scent to them so they want to pee on them. This will work if she is food motivated. I DO NOT recommend this with a toy motivated dog. Dogs don't have that don't watch me pee feeling. As much as you think so. Lol we anthropomorphisize our dogs to much thinking that they use the same psychology as we do. |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 19:56:44 GMT -7
Hi Sarah, Now that I know about her shyness regarding going potty, it does sound like she has bladder control. She just doesn't want to be watched while she is doing it. Makes perfect sense. Especially since she is emptying on the potty pad..and won't let you express her.. It's a great sign that she has bladder control! Tail wagging and standing are all signs that her nerves are regenerating. Is she eating any better and drinking water? It would help to attach her water and food at head height in her crate.. Here's a picture:  |
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 26, 2013 20:19:27 GMT -7
Thanks so much for your feedback and thoughts Jen and Pauliana! So you think that if Bailey is going between the 3 hour intervals without leaking or dribbling at all, and then going on the potty pad completely nearly every 3 hours (like clockwork that this means she most likely has bladder control? Do you think I should still take her out of her crate to try to go potty, even though she doesn't go when I try? I just hate to move her unnecessarily if I don't have to.. I always have to bring her out almost right away after she tries to go potty to clean her up after she goes potty on the pad. So that's more times of bringing her out. I could try tempting her to pee with a treat as a reward.. (and during the day, I can only bring her right outside of her crate to try to pee on the potty pad-- I can't lift her outside because she weighs too much and I am early pregnant / high risk-- she can't try to potty outside til my husband gets home at night). Should I still even try to express her bladder? I don't want to hurt her if she does indeed have bladder control... Also, I have been just trying to clean her up as best as I can with baby wipes, but I'm afraid maybe it's not good enough and she may end up with sores. can I sponge bathe her right by her crate? Thanks again for your help!!!!! You all are the best! PS-- Pauliana, she IS eating / drinking much better, yayyy! I will try to set the food & water up higher so she doesn't have to bend; a lot of times she eats and drinks while I am petting her, so I often hold the dish up for her. |
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jun 26, 2013 20:20:19 GMT -7
Sarah, would an ex-pen work for Bailey to use to pee.
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Post by jochs311 on Jun 26, 2013 20:49:25 GMT -7
For now I would try an X pen outside with a pee pad in it since she seems to be comfortable going on one. Use a harness and a sling to hold her up. I don't think she has loss of bladder control if she can hold it. I would continue to take her out. I feel the same way about the movement but you want to get her out so she remembers to go outside and also while she is out its a perfect time to message her legs a little bit to help remind her that her legs are there and prevent muscule atraphy. That's what my accupunctureist suggested. |
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Post by welovebailey on Jun 27, 2013 7:20:06 GMT -7
This morning was a much more discouraging and very sad to see...Bailey could stand very briefly, but it was very difficult for her, and barely a hint of a tail wag when she first saw me. It nearly broke my heart all over again... She is not at all herself, and looks just awful, and I feel like it could be due to a new medication that I gave her last night. After my visit to the vet with her yesterday, he prescribed me a "mild" tranquilizer / sedative medication to help remain more calm in the crate. I thought I'd give it a try just to see. The med is called Acepromazine and the dosage is 25mg. He said to give her 1 and a 1/2 tablets, and I am sooooo glad I didn't!! I gave her just a 1/2 of a tablet last night around 7:30, and within a couple hours her eyes looked awful (super watery/ glossy / droppy & red-rimmed). And she just lays there looking sooo sad. This morning she had a lot of trouble even standing, and not much of a noticeable tail wag at all. But I read online that side effects of Acepromazine can include severe unsteadiness in dogs. Has anyone had experience with this medication? Could this be causing her to seem worse this morning? I was so encouraged after how she seemed yesterday morning, and now today...it's so hard not to just cry and cry. I wonder if this med could hamper her recovery in some way...if so, I would not give it to her again! At the same time, if it helps her to rest enough to heal, is that a good thing? Even if it makes it so that she cannot stand well?? I will definitely try to find some of the Composure Bite Size Chews to help calm her instead...I am hoping these would not have this effect on her. (also, is she considered to have bowel control if she can hold her poo without having an accident in her crate? when I bring her out to try to go potty, I gently touch in a circle around her anal area, and she gives a nice big poop once or twice a day. Sometimes I don't even have to touch there and she poos. Just wondering what defines bowel control...) Lastly, should I be starting some of the massage / physical therapy techniques with her already (today is day 3 of crating)?? If I can only afford either laser therapy or acupuncture (not both), which would be more effective to help her? (I do know laser therapy is cheaper, but don't know if it's more effective...I do have a "Light Relief" device that I bought online for my own back and it really helps--it uses infrared light rays -- could I use that on her back to help??) And I am wondering if she is technically considered "paralyzed"? She does have deep pain sensation, she could stand well on her own for little bits yesterday, and she is able to hold her urine between potty breaks. (every 3-4 hours) EDIT at 10:30am: PLEASE HELP!!!!! I am totally panicking!!!! She definitely had bladder control up until last night, and then after I gave her the Acepromazine pill, she became incontinent-- leaking urine constantly, and cannot hardly stand anymore.... I am totally freaking out!!!!! COuld this pill have caused this??? The internet says that Acepromazine depresses the nervous system, so could this be making her this way?? Is there hope that after the tranquilizer wears off that she will regain control of her bladder and be able to stand again?? Please help me! I am so upset right now... |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 27, 2013 10:17:15 GMT -7
Hi Sarah,
It could be the sedative that caused that and it should wear off and she should get those functions back.. I would call the vet and describe her reactions to the sedative. If she had that big of a reaction I wouldn't give it to her again. She should be fine once it wears off.. Just call the Vet and let them know and ask how long it will take to wear off.. Please don't cry and be as calm as possible for your sake and Bailey..
It sounds to me like she did have bladder and bowel control and she should have them again once the sedative is out of her system..
Hugs,
Pauliana
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jun 27, 2013 13:57:06 GMT -7
Yep...vet prescribed 10 mg of acepromazine for Fred..said to give him half to a whole one..Fred weighs 20lbs. I gave him half of one the first night..waited and hour no change so gave him the other half. This JACKED him up!! He couldn t stand or even lift himself .his eyes were red..I thought I killed him. He was out of it..it was a horrible horrible night. Talk about crying and guilt...lasted about 24 hours when it wore off Fred was much better. Now I only give him a quarter of one if he is too wired and do it on rare occasions.
Ps..keeping my fingers crossed for bladder control!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 27, 2013 18:04:01 GMT -7
Sarah, we do hear about ACE…sometimes it has the opposite effect of stirring up the dog. Also each dog's sensativity to this sedative can be different. Just as Stacy experienced with with her Fred… he needs very little of it to be relaxed. IF you must use ACE then I would try a very low dose as Stacy did and see how that works before moving up to a bit higher dose. Some pets are sedated for 6-8 hours while other for more than 12 hours. You can read more about ACE here: vasg.org/a_drugs.htm Once out of her system you'll more then likely see she is back to being able to control her bladder. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Other brands may be available in your area… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 27, 2013 20:52:36 GMT -7
Try not to worry to much. It sounds like the Acepromazine hit Bailey hard - it happens. She needs to "sleep it off" and should be feeling and behaving more normally soon - if not better by tomorrow call your Vet. We had an incident like that with Stevie too- she was flat out for 17 hours and it scared the heck out of me too.
Keep us posted - keeping you in thought and prayer (((hugs)))
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He said this was further indication of loss of feeling. She has not urinated in her crate yet, but I let her out to go potty this morning when she could still walk, and she has hardly eaten or drank anything for days. 
when I came to this site I was horrified that I let Fred roam the house and run (which I thought was a good sign). I cried and freaked A LOT! Fred now has a limp .. more like a strut that he wouldn't have had I knew better. hurts to watch knowing I could have stopped it. Know that you are a good doggie mama..we can't know everything and you doing everything you can for your baby. It is obvious how much you love Bailey. Now..deep breathe stay strong your baby needs you now. Be positive around Bailey..when you hurt they hurt. You got this and you are not alone 
