Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 5, 2017 6:47:25 GMT -7
I think Paula will be able to re-post for you Rob. I did read your post about your mother late last night. I think many of us have encountered those who don't understand or who have a different mentality about it. My Jeremy was recently on crate rest for a neck injury, no new neuro deficits and pain was under control, and my friend was constantly after me to start thinking of putting him down, just due to the 8 weeks of crate rest. She felt that the confinement to a crate was not a life of quality, even though it was just temporary and I assured her he would be fine afterwards. I know that if such a person had responsibility for him when he was paralyzed 6 years ago, he would never have enjoyed the last 6 years of his life so I rejoice that I didn't see it that way and that Jeremy was given life. My mom felt it was too much for me to deal with when he was paralyzed and incontinent but she came around when she saw that it was manageable.
Blessings to you for giving your Oliver the loving home that he deserves.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 5, 2017 7:19:00 GMT -7
Marjorie -- Thanks. For some reason I felt ashamed about posting that and deleted it. But it's been stewing in me since this conversation with my mother and I wanted it reposted, if possible, so thank you. Just disgusts me beyond measure, her selfish unempathetic response. I would and will do anything to help Oliver with his recovery. I'm at Day 15 of strict crate rest (1/4 way through), his pooping issue is now settling and he did his first normal poop OUTSIDE this morning, and is right now peacefully resting in his crate. As you say, I'm fully comfortable that it's temporary, but more importantly, it's necessary. THIS IS HOW WE AVOID SURGERY OR MORE SEVERE ISSUES.
Thanks again. Rob
And thanks Paula if u repost it.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 5, 2017 7:27:48 GMT -7
Rob, I'm sorry there is not a way for us to resurrect a post once it has been deleted.
I'm now getting the jist of your missing message is your mom's not understanding the care needed to help a disc heal. Now Nala's post makes sense and I agree with her well said points as well as the personal insights Marjorie gave you.
If you can remember back when you were not sure 100% STRICT was needed and then how far you have come to learn what disc disease is. Self education gives the ability to commit to the needed treatment. That 8 weeks when you put it into perspective is but a blink of an eye considering the many more happy years Oliver will have sharing a wonderful life with you. If your mother has not been reading and studying this disease, I can image she may not be able to share your view the treatment is well worth the benefit. The rewards of a healed loved one outweigh inconveniences we might suffer.
With our parents, it can be harder to take such comment. Your approach can only be consider the source. A source who is not yet educated about IVDD. Thus, there is no way you can be offended by a person who is talking from a point of lack of knowledge.
You are never responsible for the actions of others; you are only responsible for you. When you truly understand this, and refuse to take things personally, you can hardly be hurt by the careless comments or actions of others.” ~Don Miguel Ruiz
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 5, 2017 7:45:45 GMT -7
Okay Paula. Thanks for letting me know. What my mother said was that I should give him away or euthanize him. I would sooner euthanize her than Oliver, believe me.
Oliver doing very well today. Did his first normal poop, out doors, since the start of this recent bout.
Have a good weekend all.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 5, 2017 7:58:35 GMT -7
Nice progress on the poop issue! May this weekend bring some needed relaxation to you as you get back to normal routines.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 6, 2017 8:49:03 GMT -7
Hola everyone. Happy Sunday!! All's quiet and settled down over here. Gonna take Oliver for a potty in a few. I just wanted to report the one super subtle but noticeable neuro issue that I've picked up on a few times but it just clicked. He walks normal, not even wobbly and his gait looks good. But I do notice his one limitation seems to be when he tries to scratch himself with his hind legs, he starts to try to do it but can't really get in a good scratch. His seems to me to be a sign that he's not 100% and a symptom of the IVDD. Just reporting this, I hope and expect this to improve with time, but wanted to hear thoughts on this.
Thabks.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Aug 6, 2017 9:07:44 GMT -7
Hi, So glad to hear that Oliver is improving. As you know, nerve healing can take a long time and can vary from one dog to the next. I wouldn't be too concerned about whether he can scratch himself at this point. It's been a relatively short time since Oliver started to have back issues.
You could try giving him good brushing or scratch him yourself when you see him try to scratch unsuccessfullly. That way, the itch would be relieved and he wouldn't continue trying. Hopefully this would help avoid a setback if he overexerted himself while trying to scratch himself.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 6, 2017 9:35:00 GMT -7
Rob, I see you have been helping other members, that's wonderful of you to share what you have learned.
Yes, like Ann said the final bit of nerve repair, maybe also a bit of muscle strength and coordination that needs to be regained will likely return with time. Happy Sunday back at ya.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 6, 2017 11:47:07 GMT -7
Just that he's trying to scratch is a great sign and walking well too !! Definitely moving in a great direction.
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Post by Pauliana on Aug 6, 2017 20:04:39 GMT -7
Hi Rob!
I am so happy that Oliver is walking and even attempting to scratch. Such wonderful improvement as his nerves continue to heal!
I got upset also about comments about putting Tyler to sleep instead of allowing him to heal his disc during his first episode.. Neil's cousin actually did put Tyler's father to sleep because they didn't want to take care of him during his IVDD episode way before Tyler had his first episode. We were very upset over Toby for a long time.. We didn't listen to them when they advised us to do the same to our Tyler. However, he is living proof that they were oh so wrong and we made it a point to prove it to them after his recovery.
So don't fret about what your mother said.. Oliver is already proving you are doing the right thing!
Have a great week to come!
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 6, 2017 21:02:36 GMT -7
I asked people who talked about pts for a dog with IVDD if they would recommend that for a human family member who had a similar injury?
That was my response to people asking about my dog.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 7, 2017 15:35:56 GMT -7
New report on Oliver: All neuro signs are good but he's peed twice today in his crate. That's the first time that's happened in 10'days, although I note it's been raining here so he missed his morning and afternoon walks and will not go on wee wee pads when I let him out for a few.
Julie -- I've been avoiding my mother as my anger could crack the sun right now. I'm gonna deal with her later this week. But I agree, it's absolutely no different not in my mind between ur beloved dog and a child. Thanks for all the posts and "likes " and support. I've been seeing u in the background of my thread. (-:
Paulina -- thanks as well. I was actually referring to Abby and Waffles as she was initially discussing that. But fortunately things turned around for her and her dog.
[Post by Rob & Oliver on 4 hours ago] I need some support today. Three times last night, Oliver once peed in his crate messing himself up and then twice pooped on his fleece and himself and apparently licked himself fairly clean, which is so gross and I feel so horrible that he had to do that. Each time he woke me with barking. I threw out 3 fleece sheets last night -- just ordered more -- but I don't know what's going on with him. I just fed and took him to potty but he only peed. HELP!!!!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 8, 2017 5:41:42 GMT -7
Hi, Rob. When you took him out to potty this morning, was he still able to release urine on his own after sniffing? When did you take him out to potty last night - was it right before bedtime? Oliver bladder/bowel control seems to have been intermittent since the disc episode started. Possibly he only has partial bladder/bowel control. If you're taking him out often enough (as often as you did prior to the disc problem) and he's still having accidents in his crate, you should try to express his bladder after he's gone on his own to be sure he's completely emptied his bladder. He might not be able to completely empty his bladder on his own. I know he has a bowel condition that I'm not familiar so forgive me if this isn't feasible, but have you tried to express his bowels to prevent accidents? More info on expressing bowels: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poop
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 8, 2017 6:13:30 GMT -7
He did a normal pee this morning. Yesterday was pouring out all day so he didn't go out except for once and he did poop, but didn't use the wee wee pads when inside.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 8, 2017 6:23:13 GMT -7
That's most likely why he had accidents in the crate. He would need to go more often than once a day. He doesn't seem to be trained to pee on a pee pad but prefers to go out. What did you do before his disc episode when it was raining? Try to keep to the same schedule as you did before.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 8, 2017 6:35:28 GMT -7
He would eventually use the wee wee pads when he was stuck inside, but he was also allowed to roam around my first floor all day and night. He just isn't trained to be let out of the crate and then put on a 5 minute clock to do his business
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 8, 2017 10:20:25 GMT -7
Oliver has been having diarrhea today. I put him back on that Metro med. but he's a bit listless, off.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 8, 2017 11:10:56 GMT -7
Plain pureed canned pumpkin, 1 teaspoon, added once daily to food helps with diarrhea.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 9, 2017 7:53:21 GMT -7
Thanks Julie. But he won't eat pumpkin. Tried it in the past.
Oliver Update: He's had had diarrhea for past 36 hours. Put him back on Metrazadole, but it hasn't taken hold yet. I've had to let him stay out of his crate due to the fact that I was having to clean the crate and him every two hours. Instead, I have penned off an area of my living room that he cannot get out of, and is strictly flat, with carpets for comfort and his regular bed. I have to modify "crate" rest as he's been getting too upset being trapped in his own poop before I can become aware it, so much so that he was trying to get out of the crate and scrapped his nose bloody. It's fine now, that was yesterday. But the diarrhea remains. Waiting to hear from my vet about this.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 9, 2017 8:07:24 GMT -7
Rob, I'm so sorry for you and Oliver for having this diarrhea issue happening. Has there been a change in diet, more fat or something else to upset his system? CHECK for DEHYDRATION Skin on the neck when you pull it up it should fall back reasonably quickly and not remain "tented" Check to see if his nose, lips and gums are wet & shiny or dehydrated and have become sticky/tacky/dry. Pull up his lip and press gently on the gum which is normally pink. When you press down it will turn white and when you release the pressure it should turn pink again within 2 seconds. TEMPORARY DIET CHANGE Discuss with your vet about Dr. Becker's recommendation: "If your dog or cat is otherwise healthy and her behavior is normal, my recommendation is to withhold food – not water – for 12 hours. After 12 hours, begin a bland diet that is fat-free. I recommend cooked, ground turkey, and canned 100 percent pumpkin. If canned pumpkin isn’t available, you can use cooked sweet potato. Many vets still believe in a bland diet of ground beef and rice. I don’t agree. Even the leanest ground beef is too high in fat, [Rob: option is to boil hamburger, cool and skim off fat disc] and while rice is indeed bland and contains fiber, it’s a complex carbohydrate that tends to ferment. This can make your pet gassy, and rice often passes right through the GI tract, exiting with the next bout of loose stool in exactly the same condition it entered. Pumpkin or sweet potato, on the other hand, is usually digestible even for pets suffering with diarrhea, so there’s some absorption of nutrients from the fiber source. Mix the turkey and pumpkin 50/50 and feed it to your pet until the diarrhea resolves. If it doesn’t clear up in about three days on a bland diet, it’s time to check in with your veterinarian." healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/28/pet-diarrhea-symptoms-and-causes.aspx
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 9, 2017 9:03:30 GMT -7
Thanks Paula. He's been on strict crate protocols for 3 weeks now, until yesterday. Provided he's on the ground floor, has not a single opportunity to jump onto a thing, and has carpet and a very low soft bed, I think it's best to make this modification in lieu of this other issue. Don't you? I will begin crating him again as soon as his GI issue is resolved.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 9, 2017 9:08:34 GMT -7
Whatever you can do to ensure limit movement of is back, too many footsteps is the thing to do with this awful diarrhea. Let us know what your vet offers to help expedite resolving the diarrhea, what the cause could be. Very typically it entails what Dr. Becker described- withhold food, but not water, to let GI tract settle then try a bland diet.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 9, 2017 10:38:58 GMT -7
Ive given him his diarrhea meds, and just have him some fresh boiled chicken and brown rice, which he gobbled up as he hasn't eaten a good meal since yesterday morning, so I'm glad he's eating. That's always a good indicator. Drinking his water as well.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 9, 2017 20:07:59 GMT -7
Once the diarrhea stops don't be surprised if Oliver doesn't poop for a couple of days. It can really clean them out.
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 10, 2017 17:29:23 GMT -7
Good point.
Oliver update: Diarrhea dissipating. Semi formed poop this evening. YAY!!! And Oliver had a nice cold laser therapy treatment tonight with n awesome new house call DVM. He's on the mend. As soon as his poop is normal again, I will go back to strict crating. For now, he's X-Penned very well, impossible to jump anywhere. And being out of crate, he's using his wee wee pads for pee and poop so it's also making that part easier for both of us....
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 11, 2017 10:04:33 GMT -7
Rob, wonderful to hear semi formed, indeed!!! Always good to hear when you have found a good vet. Maybe share some details on our Vet Recommendation directory? I don't think we have any who make house calls yet. The directory is here: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting vet recommendations: Name of Vet Name of Clinic Street Address City: State or country: Type of vet (general/board certified surgeon, acupuncture, etc.) Comments:
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 13, 2017 5:20:21 GMT -7
Only met with her once, so will meet a number of times before being willing to make a recommendation which I consider not to be taken lightly.
Morning!!! So, it's 3.5 weeks since the start. All neuro signs look good, normal walking although his legs do seem a bit week to me still. Carrying Oliver to pee/poop area 4x/day and he's doing most of his business outside now. And as his diarrhea has subsided, I'm restoring him to his normal foods and re-started CRATE rest, as opposed to the penned off area with his regular bed. I suppose that the penned area/bed setup is PROBABLY fine, this time I want to really do the real CRATE rest to bar all significant movements. Although having his taste of freedom the last 4 days, he's been back to barking up a storm so he knows I'm clear he's not happy about it. But he's definitely doing well in ALL respects, including his secondary chronic issue of his perianal hernia related matters.
What do you think?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 13, 2017 9:57:31 GMT -7
I'm with you Rob, do all you can to ensure his disc will heal.... with 100% STRICT rest 24/7 for the full 8 weeks, only out for a very, very few footsteps at potty time.
Wonderful to hear his PH is even doing better. With all that Oliver has been through, fortune has been on his side to see neuro functions have returned. You know, we always say the focus is on the disc healing part. Nerve healing may or may not come back in the short of time of 8 weeks. Your detailed and focus on Oliver's care and his determined body have been instrumental in already seeing such a good deal of heailng. Keep up the good work, you guys are an inspiration!
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Post by Rob & Oliver on Aug 17, 2017 5:04:54 GMT -7
Morning everyone. Guess what day tomorrow is? Tomorrow is precisely 4 weeks of crate rest for Oliver, and all indications are he is doing well and healing well. Of course, I don't have Superman's X-Ray vision so cant exactly confirm this, but doing all I can for his Conservative treatment program. Later today is another Cold Laser Treatment.
Question: While I continue to carry Oliver up and down from my apartment to the street in front of my building (it's almost a full 5 minute walk from my apt door to outside -- Romy can attest to our NYC issue) in his Sherpa bag with hard wooden bottom covered by nice comfortable woolen cover, then let him out of the bag to do his business, I've been extending the length of his walk in the last few days, from just the few steps for potty by his potty area, to partially walk Oliver around my building, and wonder what everyone feels about modest increases in his walks?
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 17, 2017 7:07:53 GMT -7
Robert, please continue to keep Oliver's crate rest very strict, with just as few steps as necessary to do potty and then carry back to crate. It does take a full 8 weeks to heal a damaged disc and allow it to form secure scar tissue. As you said, you don't have x-ray vision to look inside of Oliver to make sure the disc has now healed. Though he may appear to be fine outside, it's like a cake that's not quite cooked in the middle yet. Too much movement and the not-yet-healed disc can tear again and you'd be back to square one, with pain and possibly nerve damage. And crate rest would have to start all over again. So please do keep the steps to a very minimum, just a few, until the full 8 weeks of crate rest are over. And then once the 8 weeks are over, you'll need to very gradually reintroduce movement so Oliver can gradually build up his strength and stamina again.
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