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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 14, 2013 16:26:23 GMT -7
Hello everyone!
Like every mommy here, I was a complete wreck when I first found my baby boy not using his hind legs. Your website has helped me find my sanity and most importantly, hope. THANK YOU!
My 35# 4 year old Cocker Spaniel Billy has just started his 8 week strict crate rest. I had no idea what IVDD was and how important STRICT crate rest was. I didn't even know that a Cocker Spaniel is a chondrodystrophoid (the new big word I learned, though I would prefer not to have found out this way) breed!
Early morning 6/4 I woke up to my Billy extremely uncomfortable, panting, breathing heavily, sitting up, and ZERO control over his hind legs. Yes, I freaked out. I carried him out from my bed to the couch and sat with him. He took a two hour nap and regained 85% of usage in his legs. Whew! He was walking but very wobbly with slight knuckling but no appearance of pain. His eating was fine and as a matter of fact, everything else about him seemed normal. I took him to the vet that morning and I feared Lyme disease but an X-ray showed calcification of the disc on his T13L1 vertebrae. He was sent home with a shot of Solu Medrol injection (I was told this was a steroid shot), traMADOL (50mg 1/2tablet twice a day), and Rimadyl (75mg chewable 1/2tablet twice a day) to start the following day, crate rest, and a return visit two weeks later.
He showed signs of marginal improvement until 6/11. It may have been my not having a harness on him when I took him out for potty breaks and he made a fast break twice or that his crate was too big. I don't know. I called the vet, initially to address my concerns about what I read about Rimadyl (class action suits, 1 in 5 dog death). She told me to check the dates on the class action suits as Rimadyl was the culprit in dog deaths in the beginning due to over dosage but the dosage has been since corrected. When my vet asked how Billy was doing, I told her that he back tracked in his improvement and she wanted to see him ASAP.
6/12 morning, I took my Billy in and he got acupuncture and was sent home with two different herbal medicines for hindquarter weakness, Prednisolone (20mg 1/4tablet twice a day for three days; 1/4tablet once a day for three days; 1/4 tablet every other day), traMADOL (same dosage), and Sucralfate (1g 1tablet twice a day). I was told NO MORE Rimadyl and NOT to start the prednisolone until 6/14. He has a return visit for another round of acupuncture on 6/17.
I have made his crate smaller, his bed a little firmer as I noticed he had less control on the plushy bed, and potty breaks ONLY with his harness. I just started his steroid meds so I haven't seen any change in appetite, thirst, or BM yet. I haven't seen a great deal of improvement since the acupuncture but my husband says Billy looks like he's in better spirits. I brush his sides down to his legs to give him blood circulation and to keep Billy company. I am lucky that I can take time off of work to be with him 24/7. I haven't been working for the past two weeks.
After I read the wealth of information on your website, I understood the utter importance of STRICT crate rest so with the start of his acupuncture, I started his 8 week crate rest. I really hope he pulls through...
Thank you so much! Since my husband and I cannot afford a surgery, I felt like I was letting my Billy down but your website gave me so much hope!
Hugs to all~~~
Yvonne
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 14, 2013 17:22:44 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Yvonne. You make us so happy to hear you ARE reading….that is going to be Billy's best defense now and in the future. Your vet started him out on an extremely dangerous combo of meds. All herbs and meds are poisons. The safety and usefulness of them is a vet who practices safe medicine and an owner who reads up on each med. Rimadyl has helped many dogs. Here is reason your vet put Billy in jeopardy. NSAIDS, of which Rimadyl belongs to should not be given with a steroid… it subjects the dog to double jeopardy for bleeding ulcers or worse of life threatening perforated stomach lining. The package insert and the FDA warn against using steroids with NAID without a 4-7 day washout. "Corticosteroids and NSAID should not be administered concurrently" Merck Veterinary Manual Online. www.merckvetmanual.com"Concomitant use of Rimadyl with other anti-inflammatory drugs, such as other NSAIDs or corticosteroids, should be avoided because of the potential increase of adverse reactions, including gastrointestinal ulcerations and/or perforations." www.rimadyl.com/content/RIM016007.pdfI know it is difficult to keep all these meds straight especially when you are emotionally spent hearing your dog has IVDD. This would be an excellent little reference card to print out for your wallet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/MedCard.pdf [for your printer]  What are the exact names of the herbal meds? Can you tell us a bit more about Billy: -- would you describe crate rest as 100% STRICT 24/7 only out to potty and for 8 weeks. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe from other pets and kids from bothering them. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? Still knuckling? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? We look foward to your answers so we can support you better. |
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 14, 2013 18:32:17 GMT -7
Hi Paula!
Thank you so much for your reply. It seems like all I've been doing recently is reading! Bless your heart for this amazing support group and the immense amount of information.
The herbal medicine names are: Douyble P 11 and the other one just says Hindquarter Weakness.
Since Billy started his acupuncture he is on STRICT crate rest 24/7. Actually, it is a x-pen that I used to corner off a small section in my living room to resemble a crate. It wasn't a STRICT crate rest at first in that I did not use a harness to let him out on potty breaks so he ran a couple of times. And the x-pen was much bigger.
I see no evidence of pain on Billy. If I allowed, he would actually run! =)
He walks wobbly but when he goes pee, he sometimes knuckles because he pees like a girl. =)
He's always eaten and drank fine. In the beginning, his neck was sore so he didn't want to bend down to drink the water so I elevated his bowl.
His poop is what I like to call museum quality! Lol! No blood, no difference in color, or even a difference in smell.
Questions:
1. Billy is now laying down and stretching his legs behind him--like frog legs. Is that okay?
2. I'm feeding the sucralfate 30min prior to all of his other meds. Should I wait longer or shorter?
3. I have another dog and a dog that I am fostering. They haven't been able to go on walks either. Can Billy be taken out if I put Billy in a stroller and keep him quiet?
4. I know this is too soon for me to worry about but after Billy makes his full recovery (I BELIEVE!!) should I use a ramp rather than steps?
Thanks again!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 14, 2013 19:12:29 GMT -7
Dr. Nancy Kay, DVM, ACVIM says "Gone are the days when you simply followed your vet's orders and asked few, if any questions. The vet is now a member of your dog's health-care team, and you get to be the team captain!" www.speakingforspot.com/PDF/Medical%20Advocacy%20101.pdf At Dodgerlist we question things and no longer blindly following vet's directions. So your reading will put you, too, in that kind of position. Billy has a neruo disease. I question why the use of Double P II. It is very hard to find much info on this herb. "COMMONLY SEEN TOXIC CHINESE HERBS AND PRECAUTIONS" Double P II is derived from the classical formula Da Huo Luo Dan. Herbs containing aconitine such as Double P II are toxic to the nervous system. Aconitine excites the vagus nerve and central nervous system first, and then leads to successive inhibition, and finally death because of paralysis www.tcvm.com/doc/TCVMNews2010SummerR.pdf If I could not know what is in a herb forumulation to look up each of them, that would make me nervous about buying a pig in a poke. Your vet has already shown a disregard for combining dangerous meds of sterioids with NSAIDs. Good news on the pain being under control. Did you vet confirm it was a neck disc? They usually take longer to heal and are more painful. So this IS good news that Billy is not in pain. Stretching legs in the recovery suite is just fine. Sucralfate is a med that has a specific timing need that your vet may have mentioned? Read over this information so you can time according to your family's lifestyle. If you have a problem deciding on a schedule, let us know as then we'll have an idea of how our family works in suggesting a schedule base on the Mar vista vet web site: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlIt would be best to hold off on stroller rides as they can be bumpy. Use the stroller in the house to keep him by yourside or while you sit on the deck, I'm sure Billy would like some fresh air and sunshine as long as he would not get rambuntious. Dogs can escape from pet strollers…so do make sure you only use it when you are by his side. Steps necessitate a bit of a jump up or down. Dr. Swainson better explains why to use ramps and avoid jumping up or down. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm |
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 14, 2013 20:13:35 GMT -7
Wow Paula, the double P II info is very disturbing! Thank you.
You are right--I should demand each and every piece of information to protect my baby. I hate how my mind goes to blob sometimes.
Even if the steroid was injected the use of Rimadyl the following day could cause damage to their tummy? As far as meds go, Billy was taken off of Rimadyl and two days later put on Prednisolone.
Bill's X-ray showed calcification in his back. I'm told the T13 L1 vertebrae and not a neck disc. His neck was sore from straining when he was in pain. He kept sticking his nose in the air when he was in pain the first night.
On the link you sent me about the sucralfate, it doesn't say anything about a time regimen. I asked the vet if I should give it 30 min prior and she said yes. Here's what Billy's schedule is:
6:00am Sucralfate
6:30am the two herbals, prednisolone, tramadol and breakfast.
The same at 6:00pm and 6:30pm and dinner.
I use Kraft cheese slices to make pill pockets for his meds. The dairy shouldn't counteract any of the meds, right?
I'm going to take him off of the herbals until Monday when I go see the vet. I'm going to print out the document you sent me and see what she says.
Oy... Back to being stressed...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 15, 2013 7:55:50 GMT -7
Yvonne, which country do you live in…Canada or ??? This is a good article to read about calcifications…not typically being the location of a current disc episode is and what calcified discs mean: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CalcifiedDiscs.htmHolding the nose high or to the ground is a typical sign of pain for a neck disc. Also when a vet examines they can identify with other signs where pain is. Maybe more than you want to know about the neuro exam: www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-practice-news-columns/surgical-insights/making-sense-of-the-neuro-exam.aspx Anyway it does not matter where the disc problem is as 100% STRICT rest will give a disc in any location time to heal. It would not be a bad idea to take these extra steps to help in case it is a neck disc, it won't hurt to: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmThe Mar Vista vet page www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.html says this about timing Sucralfate: -- Sucralfate requires stomach acid in order to form its protective gel. If possible, it should be given 30 minutes prior to the administration of an antacid. [Pepcid AC is an example of an antacid] -- Ideally, this medication is given on an empty stomach (at least one hour before feeding or two hours after). So based on that information, one schedule could be: 6am - sucralfate 7am - Pred and tramadol with breakfast 6pm - sucralfate 7pm - pred and tramadol with dinner Steroids whether injected or taken orally are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion. So the switching from Solu-medrol (steroid) to Rimadyl (NSAID) to Prednisolone (steroid) was a dangerous practice without a 4-7 days washout. Billy really had luck on his side not to have suffered any GI symptoms. |
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jun 15, 2013 10:34:27 GMT -7
Hi, I'm Stacy and my dog is Fred. Fred is currently in his second week. I freak out out on a daily basis and sometimes even hourly. It is ok...we love our babies!! Hang in there and sending you both healing thoughts and prayers!
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 15, 2013 12:09:10 GMT -7
Thank you Paula! Thank you Stacy! Sending good karma, positive thoughts, with lots of hugs and kisses to Fred~~~
By the way, I'm in California, USA.
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 16, 2013 20:44:58 GMT -7
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 17, 2013 12:19:25 GMT -7
Yvonne, good news on the knuckling gone. As pred gets the swelling down there is less pressure on the spinal cord and functions can come back. Any nerves that were damaged are helped by the acupuncture too.
Thank you for the links. To me there is a concern to give Double P II to a dog with a nerve disease (IVDD) and who is taking medications that often cause GI tract adverse side effects of diarrhea and other gastric issues such as NSAIDs or steroids. Signs of toxic Double P II reaction are tremors and numbness of lips and limbs, excessive salivation, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, dizziness, anxiety, disorientation, convulsions, dyspnea, paresis or paralysis, fecal or urinary incontinence, arrhythmia, coma and death.
Experienced vets would be hesitant to prescribe Chinese herbs when conventional medications are in use to avoid interactions that could make the dog sick or worse. In the end the owner alone is responsible for their dog. The owners hires an IVDD knowledgeable vet and makes decisions on which treatments to purchase. Owners also have the responsibility to monitor medications for safe use.
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 17, 2013 12:28:56 GMT -7
Hey Paula!
Just got back from round 2 of acupuncture for my Bills. The vet was very pleased with his progress! I'm so grateful he's getting better!
I voiced my concern for his tummy but the vet was confident that at the dose Billy is on he'll be fine. She also didn't want him on it longer than 7 days which she feels is the bare minimum amount of time. But you are right, I should closely monitor Bills as he is MY baby and no one else can make the decisions better than me. =)
I know 8 weeks of crate rest is recommended but what if he shows signs of recovery well before than 8 weeks? Have you seen dogs that have graduated before the suggested 8 week period?
Thanks again!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 17, 2013 13:01:25 GMT -7
Caring for our dogs is all about being IVDD educated. Understanding makes it more likely you will not be dissuaded to shortcut treatment. A broken arm needs to have restricted rest in a cast for about 6 weeks for the bone to knit back together. Bones have an abundance of nutrient rich blood supply to help expedite healing. Skin has even more blood supply and often cuts will heal pretty well in a couple of weeks. Discs are made of cartilage with virtually NO blood supply to help with forming scar tissue…so the 8 weeks is to let the disc heal…and that healing only happens with 100% STRICT rest 24/7. Movement too early in the healing process will cause the weak scar tissue to easily tear. When a tear happens it is very painful for Billy and then 8 weeks of crate rest starts all over again, you will have more vet bills. There are four phases of healing with a disc episode… all taking different times to achieve…so don't be confused by general terms such as "improvement", "recovery"… what is meant exactly???… pain, inflammation, disc repair or nerve regeneration? I I I know when I first learned about Clark's IVDD I had to read and reread….so much information to absorb!!! MOre detail on each of the phases of healing are outlined here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm |
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 17, 2013 13:18:39 GMT -7
Duh! I read all this! Silly me~~~
Thank you!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 17, 2013 13:27:28 GMT -7
No worries, as I said I had to read and re-read before everything started to sink in and become internalized. Now you are in a position to help a new member to know the benefits of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for a full 8 weeks. LOL. Help another and pass on your knowledge.
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 21, 2013 14:52:27 GMT -7
Billy is doing better everyday! He is gaining a little more control of his hind quarters each day. He's still a little wobbly and slightly lacks balance but he is showing signs of improved control. He will be going in today for his round 3 of acupuncture. His tapering of the Prednisolone went fine. No signs of pain but he did seem a little more wobbly the second day into his tapering. That seemed to be an isolated incident so I continued with the tapering. He is now taking 1/4 tablet of a 20mg pill every other day as of today. I will check with the vet to see how much longer he needs to be on it. Now that he's feeling better, it is getting increasingly difficult to keep him quiet in his x-pen. I haven't been going into work since his episode to be with him. I sit in the pen with him, take naps with him, take him outside to sit in the sun, and I give him his allowance of treats inside the pen. Any suggestions on how to keep him entertained? He's not very interested in rawhide but he's got that and I'm thinking of getting those sterilized bones and fill it with peanut butter for him. Poor Billy is bored out of his mind! I'm also starting to research ramps to replace the steps I have for our bed. Our bed is fairly low (about 15" tall) and my place is small so I don't want a huge ramp. Any suggestions on ramps that are affordable? I saw this one: www.inthecompanyofdogs.com/itemdy00.aspx?T1=D19008%20CHC&utm_source=shopping&utm_medium=comparison&utm_campaign=datafeed&srccode=NXCDC0 and was wondering if the ridges will help or hurt? Any opinions/suggestions will be appreciated! Thanks! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 22, 2013 7:18:45 GMT -7
Yvonne, no pain on the taper of Pred is good news, hoping to hear the taper finishes without a hitch. The wobbly walking is nerve damage and that can take longer to self heal. Most dogs need some 16-18 hours of sleep per day, people sleep 8-9 hours day. What are they doing in the crate? Laying around and sleeping! Don't give into the temptation to start a treat routine to combat non-existent boredom. Adding a bunch of treats as entertainment contributes to weight gain which isn't a good thing During recovery time, physical activity must be restricted. While most dogs need twice as much sleep as people require, what can a dog on crate rest do when they are awake? Chewing on high calorie treats with peanut butter can put on weight. How about a thinking activity to tire them out! Teach "nose touch a target" touch a paw, touch your hand, etc. limited to inside the recovery suite while they are sitting or lying down quietly! Do your training inside the crate of course AND only if quietly sitting or lying down: For a cocker spaniel those ridges would not hurt but I don't know if they would help better with traction than a flat ramp. Building a ramp might be the least expensive way to go if you have a handiman in the family. A modular foam ramp may work for your situation? www.puppystairs.com/ |
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 25, 2013 17:16:18 GMT -7
Thank you Paula!
The vet wants Billy in for acupuncture once a week versus the previous 3-4 days. She thinks Billy should only need about 2 more sessions and the hindquarter weakness herbal; continue to taper the Pred for one more week; along with the crate rest. She is pleased with his improvement! Yay! The Pred tapering is still ay-okay. =)
Lol! My Bills knows his nose touch command and uses that to let me know he has to go potty! And he uses it to kiss me when I'm lying down next to him. (*melts my heart~~~~) ^_^ I've been giving him lettuce hearts to tear apart which he loves to do but a task for me to clean up!
After he graduates, what would be the appropriate amount of exercise? Would a 1K walk be okay? Also, I know jumping is a never never from now on. But my Bills likes to stand on his hind feet to give me hugs. Is that a no no as well?
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 25, 2013 17:51:26 GMT -7
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 25, 2013 19:30:33 GMT -7
Good news Yvonne  Oh, and thank you for taking the time to offer encouragement and support to other new members - your kindness is truly appreciated by everyone |
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jun 26, 2013 10:02:48 GMT -7
Aww shucks~~~ =)
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 26, 2013 13:20:20 GMT -7
Yvonne, I am so excited Billy is doing so well and I commend you for being jaunty on the spot to help new members!  |
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jul 30, 2013 19:06:45 GMT -7
OMG, it's been a month since I last posted! Sorry to be MIA~~~
Billy is doing better and better each day. His preds are down to every third day which we stopped today. It was upsetting his tummy even with Pepcid so I asked the vet if we could try without it since there is zero pain. He is not on any other meds. Billy has had a total of six acupuncture sessions with another one coming up in three weeks. His sessions have been in longer intervals since the vet liked what she saw in Bills. He has Toe Grips on to help him with control and his walk is very slightly wobbly. You can barely tell. He's at about %98 as far as his walking is. Not bad, huh? =) He's been taking his sweet time finding his potty spots though and I've been giving in a few times since he's getting increasingly picky about his spots. He's taking at least 20 steps sometimes. I don't know what to do. Any thoughts?
Even if Billy has a little wobble in his step could he graduate from crate rest in two weeks?
Thank you so much,
Yvonne
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Jul 30, 2013 20:43:03 GMT -7
Hi Yvonne! I'm Sabrina. I'm brand new to IVDD - my dog Charley is in the midst of his first episode. We are having trouble with Charley wanting to wander all over and find his own spot to potty, and Paula suggested we make a "potty spot" with garden fencing. We made a six ft "spot" for Charley this morning and it is helping him realize that he's not going to be able to roam about. We have short pieces of plastic garden fencing but I've seen taller "wire" versions at dollar stores.
I hope that Billy is able to stay off of the meds and that he keeps improving!
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 31, 2013 6:08:42 GMT -7
So good to hear from you, Yvonne. I've been wondering how Billy is doing. Sounds like he's doing just fine! And yes, after the full 8 weeks of crate rest, Billy can graduate, even if he's wobbly walking. The crate rest is to heal the disc. The nerves do not require crate rest to heal. It may take some more time for the nerves to heal and he can be out of the crate.
Making a potty spot as Sabrina has suggested should keep Billy from taking too many steps when doing his business. You don't want him to do too much yet. He's still on strict crate rest and should only be taking a few steps. Even after Billy graduates from crate rest, he needs to take it easy and gradually start moving more.
You're doing a great job with Billy - he's a lucky boy!
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jul 31, 2013 11:30:12 GMT -7
Thank you Sabrina! I'm so sorry Charley is going through this bad disease. It sucks, doesn't it?!? Charley is lucky to have you. I have been part of the rescue community and many many times a day, I yell, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!?!?!?!?!" so it's such a breath of fresh air to "hang out" with good mommies and daddies. =)
Thank you Marjorie! You are incredible to keep me and my Bills in your thoughts even with all that is on your plate. =) XOXO~~~~~ I have a potty spot made up for him and he just sits in it sometimes if he is really reluctant to go. =( He wasn't like that before but now that he's feeling better he seems to be more picky. I even relocated the potty spot twice! Oy... The things we do for our fur-babies. Ha ha ha
Thank you so much for all the positive karma!
Another question for anyone that knows: when do we stop giving Billy acupuncture? If we stop too soon is it going to undo all the progress it's helped make? Does Bills need it until all of his neuro-deficits come back to 100%? It seems to have a little less and less impact each time so I was wondering. But then again, he is getting better and better so I must be seeing less and less.
Thanks again! Hugs to all~~~
Warmly,
Yvonne
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 31, 2013 12:21:34 GMT -7
Acupuncture can be given at any time. Stopping it now doesn't undo any of the progress made. You can continue it if you think it's helping at all and if it's within your budget. I stopped it with Jeremy when I didn't see improvement from one visit to the next. He had gotten to a pretty good place by that time and I thought if he remained there, he could manage OK so I stopped. With the surgery expenses, money had become pretty tight. Jeremy continued to improve long after after I stopped the acupuncture.
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jul 31, 2013 12:59:56 GMT -7
Thank you! I am totally on the same page with you. I guess I just wanted to hear it from another mommy. We are so out of our budget right now so it's kind of hard to decide based on our budget! Ha ha ha Top Ramen really grows on you after the first month! Just kidding!!!!
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 31, 2013 18:28:06 GMT -7
Budget? LOL!! My husband jokingly asked if he could just set up an automatic deposit arrangement with the vet. Why bother even cashing client checks and putting the money in our account when it's going straight to the vet anyway?
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Post by Yvonne & Billy on Jul 31, 2013 18:37:47 GMT -7
Bahahahahahaha! Soooo true!!! Budget shmudget!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 31, 2013 19:54:00 GMT -7
If we were meant to have budgets we would have money, right?? LOL
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Oh, and thank you for taking the time to offer encouragement and support to other new members - your kindness is truly appreciated by everyone 
