lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 8, 2013 7:59:59 GMT -7
My name is Lisa and my dog's name is sandy.May 15th we went to emergency for pain and rear end weakness.The vet gave her tramadol two times a day,prednisone twice a day.He told me to keep her quiet and rest. The following day when I woke up sandy couldnt move and was in terrible pain.Back to the emergency room. The vet re examined her and said we should do an mri and surgery,and quoted me $6000 dollars with no guarantee she would walk again.I dont have that kind of money and said I would be unable to do the sergery.I took her home and began to research on the computer. We started going to accupuncture and continued the medicine.She regained bladder control and was able to walk a little bit at potty time. Last friday the accupuncture doctor suggested i put her in an expen so she could begin to redevelop the muscles,and to walk her for five minutes three times a day.I did put her in a small x-pen and am now deeply regretting listening to the doctor.Last sunday,someone knocked on my front door,she spun in a circle barking,and is now worse than before!She went to see the vet yesterday after her accuouncture and he basically told me to consider euthansia if I cant afford the surgery. I dont want her to live in pain,and i am really upset he didnt offer any advice.Do I express her bladder? it seems she is constantly peeing..I change the pad about twice an hour.She cant poop...she has a urine burn on her but and no hair now...she was barking all nite long.Neither one of us got any sleep.After breakfast she seemed to settle down and has not barked since,just whines when im not in the room with her sometimes.I found this website and it looks like i have a lot of reading to do.Is it cruel to keep her alive?Help!
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 8, 2013 9:52:49 GMT -7
Lisa, I am so very sorry you have a vet who is not comfortable in treating a disc episode. It take 8 weeks of 100% STRICT rest 24/7 only out at potty times. Your vet did Sandy a huge diservice with the advice to take her off of crate rest. In the early days of learning our dogs have IVDD, everyone needs a shoulder to lean on while getting things figured out, dealing with emotions, getting up to speed on meds, what disc disease is, etc. Your job in the coming days is to become a reader so you become the confident leader of the health care team.... to discuss confidently various issues from medications to recognizing if suggestions of activity would be harmful to the healing disc and even hiring a new vet who does know IVDD. All that takes being a reader. Start on our main website with "Overview: the essentials" yellow button it will give you the degree of understanding you need right away…. as time permits continue to read all the orange buttons and the blue button "Disc Disease 101 core readings" to complete your education. Here is the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmSo to get things on the right track for Sandy: 1. Make sure 100% STRICT rest is: no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe from other pets and kids from bothering them. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. 2. Get a hand on top of your hands lesson on expressing the bladder today it is a real health issue to express… if you can, get the lesson from your newly hired IVDD knowledgeable vet if possible. YOu will get more out of the lesson if you look at the video and read the tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm As you will learn you can also express for poop. 3. Let us know the exact names of all her meds. The dose in mg and how often you give them. If she is in pain today, then t he pain meds are not yet right… that will need to be address asap today at the vet. Know your pain meds and what pred does here before visiting the vet to you can have a quality discussion and express your thoughts to the vet based on your new knowledge…never stop advocating FOR Sandy! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm4. Make sure you protect her stomach today. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlCruelty would be not reading all you can about this disease to know there is no reason at all to put a dog down because they have a back problem…. have you ever heard of a person being put to sleep because they have a back problem? Heck no! You treat the problem with proper rest and medications to keep them from being in pain while the rest is being done. Hang in there you can be instrumental in helping Sandy. Keep us updated on your visit to the vet today. |
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lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 9, 2013 6:05:22 GMT -7
here is a list of Sandys medicine.
5am-gabapentin 100 mg 1 capsule. Tramadol i/2 tab 50mg. pepcid 530 am 5mg.6am- prednisone 11/2 tab 5mg.1pm tram 1/2 tab.5pm gaba 1capsule 530pepcid 6pm pred 11/2 tab.8pm tram 1/2 tab. i gave Sandy a good bit of pumpkin in her dinner last nite and she was able to go on her own.She seems a lot more comfortable today.she slept most of the nite only barked when she went to the bathroom. I think maybe all the traveling on friday made her very uncomfortable.I will not schedule the vet on the same day as accupuncture anymore,I think she was just in the car too long.My vet is about an hour each way.
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Post by natureluva on Jun 9, 2013 6:17:15 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, my name is also Lisa. Thanks for the info on Sandy's medications. Do you feel her pain is well-controlled? Remember that the most important part of conservative treatment is the 8 weeks of strict crate rest. It is time and limited movement that heals the disc while the meds mask the symptoms. It is important that you determine whether Sandy has bladder control. If she squirts urine when picked up or has accidents in the crate, then she does not have control. Please review our bladder expressing video and get a HANDS-ON expressing demonstration from your vet asap: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm You will need to manually express her bladder 4 to 6 times per day until control returns. Expressing is easy and convenient, but takes practice. Here is how to pick up and carry an IVDD dog: youtube.googleapis.com/v/kyD2IW5m0qY How is she doing in the crate? You can also put a crate in your bedroom so that she can sleep near you at night. I actually put a crate right on my bed against a wall so that my Goosie could sleep next to me. :-) If finances are an issue, consider applying for Care Credit. They offer no interest or low interest financing for veterinary costs. You can apply online and be approved the same day. Here’s the link: www.carecredit.com/faqs.html. FYI - Walmart, Target, and many grocery stores have a generic drug program and you can get a 30-day supply of some drugs for $4 each. Walmart has Tramadol in the correct dosage for our dogs and also Prednisone. Target may have Methocarbamol. So, you can ask the vet for a prescription and take it to the store and have it filled. Just tell them it is for a K9. Here is a Generic Med List: genericmedlist.com/ Please read through our Success Stories to get an idea of the various recoveries of IVDD dogs. Ones marked with a "C" after the name indicate dogs that went through conservative (non-surgical) treatment. As you can see, strict crate rest can do wonders: www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htmWe look forward to hearing how Sandy does throughout crate rest. Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 9, 2013 7:56:45 GMT -7
Hi Lisa, I'm Maureen. How are you making out with Sandy's potty time? Is she still leaking urine, or has she regained some control? You can learn to express her bladder with a hands on lesson from your Vet or Tech, and there is a video on this site www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm You can use unscented baby wipes to clean her skin and help with the urine burns (diaper rash). Your vet is very misinformed if they only give you the surgery or death options for Sandy, very wrong ideed. There are alot of success stories on this site (including my Stevie) from pet parents that refused to accept that verdict. I know how scared you are right now, and how awful you feel about Sandy re-injuring herself, but we all live and learn when it comes to IVDD. We are all here to help each other - let us know what we can do to help you! Keeping you in thought and prayer  |
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lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 9, 2013 10:07:22 GMT -7
I did forget to mention when iposted earlier,the accupuncture vet let me take home a tens unit and showed me where to put it on her back.Are these units helpful or harmful in the early days of recovery? How many times a day do i use it? The vet did set the dial for the intensity.Any thoughts/
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2013 10:41:15 GMT -7
The vet should be the one to direct you on how often to use the Tens unit.
Could you clarify for us the meds Sandy is on:
Gabapentin 100 mg capsule how many times a day?
Pepcid AC 5mg tablet how many times a day?
Tramadol 25mgs (1/2 tablet) how many times a day?
Prednisone 7.5mgs (1 and 1/2 of a 5mg tablet) how many times a day?
How are you doing with expressing her bladder, does she stay dry in between expressing? YOu would need to express every 2-3 hours to keep her dry.
The proof that she has bladder control is she does not leak on you when lifted. That she can sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then release urine. Let us know what you observe.
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lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 9, 2013 11:32:09 GMT -7
the accupuncture vet said to use the tens unit up to three times a day.She is also the one who suggested i walk her,which i see isnt correct according to the iformation im reading here.Her meds-
gabapentin-2x a day
pepcid 2x a day
tramadol 3x aday
pred-2x a day.
I am able to express her bladder a stream shoots out,however im not used to doing it.Im not sure if it is being emptied.She does not leak urine when lifted,however i have not been taking her to her outside pee spot im afrid to carry her too long.Lst week when i lowered her to pee she screamed so loud I have not tried since.She has pooped again since last nite without any stimulation of her rear end,I hope this is a good sign.I am trying to learn as quickly as possible,I want her to be ok.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2013 11:50:08 GMT -7
I'm not familar with usage of tens to know how often it should be used.
If her pain meds (gabapentin and Tramadol) are adusted properly for Sandy's needs, that allows you to cre for her needs such as at potty times without inflicting pain. I would say if she never leaks urine when lifted out for potty time, then she may have bladder control. Us humans only know that if the dog can pass the sniff and pee test. If poop came out in her bed, then that would not be control. If she waited til in a proper place like outdoors, that would be a sign of control. Can you try the sniff and pee test today? Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
Is her pain fully under control…even when nearing the next dose of pain meds? That is you do not observe any shivering, yelping, moving gingerly. her personality seems to be back because she is not in pain…. let us know.
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lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 9, 2013 15:44:11 GMT -7
Sandy does not have bladder control at all,I have changed the pad approximately 15 times so far.Im not sure about trying the sniff and pee test yet,she has no control in the back end not even her tail anymore.I have been trying to express her and urine squirts out however I must not be getting it all,the pads are always wet.My vet gave me a very brief demo on how to express,and I have been watching the video on this site.I dont want to hurt her.Im going to have to keep trying.Her pain seems to be under control today.She has been laying down from time to time napping.I dont have water attatched to her recovery suite,I bring it to her numerous times a day,is it my fault she is peeing so much? She is so thirsty she drinks a whole small bowl every time I bring it.Because she has no bladder control i have the wee wee pad on top,with her sitting on it is that ok or will it irritate her skin further? .
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2013 16:11:51 GMT -7
YOu do need to keep that bowl of water inside the crate….the side effect of pred is that is makes them more thirsty….so she should be able to drink as she feels the need to rather than having to wait til you come with water. Grab two plastic food containers, like cottage cheese ones, tie wraps (or string or twisty ties) and punch some hole as shown in the photo below for your attached bowls inside the crate.  Learning to express is a new skill for you, a weeks worth of practice will have you being able to express the bladder fully by being able to actually feel the bladder. The last stage of emptying is when you can almost feel the fingers of your other hand. Do not hesitate to go back and express right in the clinic where the vet tech can check your work and give you pointers…. this is how we all have learned. The constant overflowing of the bladder is not good for two reasons. The overstretching will cause permanent loss of tone and function and not work when the brain can again communicate with the bladder. The other reason is overflowing does not release all the urine. The part remaining will in a couple of days have an infection started, a UTI. Also urine skin scald is a potential if urine remains on her skin. YOu can wipe her with a damp washcloth or some non-scented baby wipes. Can you set her bed up with mattress inside a trash bag and taped shut. Layer a pee pad on top. Then lay fleece fabric across and tuck tightly as the bottom sheet. Fleece does not ravel, wicks moisture and dries fast. Cut up cheap $10 Walmart throws or purchase yardage. A bed made up this way is easy to change and save on laundry. Lots more tips here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmWhen you go first thing in the morning for a lesson, have them do a urinalysis to verify no urinary tract infection has begun requiring anti-biotics. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. So you will want to be observing for a tail wag when you do some happy talk to her or when she sees you come into the room. Soon after that bladder control will return. |
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lisa
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Post by lisa on Jun 9, 2013 16:35:17 GMT -7
Thank you for the information.I forgot to mention the first injury she developed a urinary infection.They gave her baytril. On Monday when I noticed the urine burn after the secound injury,I started back up with the baytril.The vet was supposed to check her urine on friday,but when he started talking euthansia,I got so upset I forgot.I will call him on monday.Where can I find a vet familiar with her condition? I am in Philadelphia.
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 9, 2013 17:18:10 GMT -7
Having a vet familiar with IVDD is important as it is a disease Sandy will have for the rest of her life. If a vet is open to learning, consulting with colleagues plus an owner willing to delve into learning about IVDD and discussing the information with to their vet then that works out great. But your vet isn't open to such a situation and isn't treating IVDD properly then it's time to look for a new vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmShould your dog need surgery look for a board certified specialist to perform this most delicate of surgeries. Look for these letters to indicate the vet is a board certified surgeon: Neuro (ACVIM) or Ortho (ACVS) Neuro and Ortho Vets are better at making sure dogs have proper pain control as they handle that aspect all the time and in general are better at treating IVDD as they see more dogs with it than a general vet does. Board-certified neuros (ACVIM) and ortho (ACVS) surgical specialists can be found at University vet teaching hospitals. You can locate others in your area here: www.acvim.org [neuros] www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/DiplomateDirectory/ [orthos] Remember dogs can live a full and happy life after recovering from an IVDD episode. She just needs a vet that is committed to helping her recover and your tender loving care. I know she has that from you already.. Hang in there and take care.. |
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2013 17:31:22 GMT -7
Wanted IVDD knowledgeable vet recommendation
in Philadelphia, PA Lisa, a urine scald may not be indicative of a bacterial infection in the bladder. So using an anti-biotic before you know there is something for to work on is not a good idea. I can appreciate your emotions that day in forgetting to ask for a urinalysis. I would stop the Baytril unless it was prescribed or until you have the results from a urinalysis. This article can help you to think through the process of hiring a new vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmThese below were on an old list of 4 years ago. Beaver Animal Clinic/Dr. Doug Kneuven 357 State Avenue Beaver (45 minutes from Pittsburgh, PA) Pennsylvania 15009 Holistic and Traditional - Acupuncture, Supplements - plus all "regular" veterinary services Chestnut Hill Veterinary/Dr. Sheldon Gerstenfeld 903 Bethlehem Pike Erdenheim PA Holistic/Accupuncture |
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