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Post by Pauliana on Jan 20, 2017 21:50:58 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your Maisy to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking after surgery or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm Look forward to learning more about your dog with your answers to these questions: ▷ What is your first name, too? We are a friendly group and go by first names. ▷ Is the surgeon a general practice DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? When our furry friends are sick is it very worrisome. It sounds as though you got help in a timely manner. Deep pain sensation is the last neuro function and a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome of the nerve being able to self heal. A good thing to do now is learn all you can about IVDD so you can care for her now and know how to live many happy years ahead with Maisy. dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmDr. Isaacs answered alot of questions we've had about surgery. So two links will be of interest to you: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm and www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmWith all the thoughts running through your mind, this is the time to jot those questions down. For on discharge day there will be much excitement. You don't want any of your questions to go unanswered. Here's a starter list of questions to which you can add some of your concerns to ask your surgeon: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmWhat about Maisy's recovery suite? Do you have it ready for homecoming day? See if there are things you can do to make post-op crate rest go smoother with these very useful tips and ideas: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm and www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmHopefully the Vet is very familiar with Maisy and understands she is very sensitive to pain and will provide proper pain management customized just for her so she can heal in comfort at home with you. If she shows pain between doses, contract her surgeon immediately so her medications can be adjusted. Any pain at all means the meds are not yet right. As you learn new information about the surgery, we will be looking forward to your updates. In the meantime if any questions pop into your mind, let's talk!
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 21, 2017 9:55:44 GMT -7
Mandy, please keep us posted as you get new updates from the surgeon and of course when she will be discharged to home.
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 22, 2017 12:16:29 GMT -7
Mandy, if you will be bringing her home first review the video and the tips so that you will get more out of the hands-on-top-of-your-hands type of expressing lesson at this page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm NOTE: while expressing for poop is not a health issue that urine is, it will help with accidents that may cause Maisy anxiety to find poop where she sleeps. Do check out the info in the above link on how to express the bowels. Just plain stress causes stomach acids and some meds have the side effect of diarrhea. Do inquire if Pepcid AC to suppress stomach acid production and maybe even sucralfate to gel coat wherever there might be damage to the GI tract occuring is on board. Here is my favorite vet web page I use to get up to speed on my dog's drugs... I think you will like being in the know too! www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pml
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 25, 2017 10:46:49 GMT -7
Mandy, what meds is Maisy on and what are the doses? Is the poop regular or diarrhea?
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 25, 2017 11:02:47 GMT -7
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 28, 2017 10:04:21 GMT -7
Mandy, how much does Maisy weigh?
Is her pain now fully in control--- the upper body twitching? Your feedback to the surgeon, if it is not, is important so he knows further adjustments to the meds are needed.
Would you say the soft stool is now getting a bit more firm?
Mandy what is the name of the antibiotic for the UTI?
Mandy as long as you support her butt and her front when lifting and keep the back horizontal to the ground, it should not hinder any post op recovery.
Can you get a phone call into the vet before they close for the day to report which you are observing: stools are starting to firm up or they are still the same very soft stool as days ago. By now if the Mentronidazole was the answer, the stools should be going in the direction of firming up. Omeprzole (started on 1/25??) can take 3 or so days to reach peak efficiency then it is supposed to be good in suppressing stomach acids.
We usually say add pumpkin. But since she is on prednisone and taking in extra water due to thirst, pumpkin may increase loosening the stool....not what you want. So discuss if Imodium from the grocery store would help, the dose and how often you should give.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 4, 2017 12:53:45 GMT -7
Usually sniff and pee indicates bladder control. Have you seen a happy tail wag? Who says there isn't deep pain? Unless it's a specialist it's easy to be wrong.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 4, 2017 14:03:06 GMT -7
Deep pain would be a prerequisite for the other neuro functions such as bladder control. When the brain sends a message to the bladder down the spinal cord which allows the dog to choose when to release urine the dog has bladder control. As Julie said, sniff and pee is the way we determine bladder control. It may be that the harness is pressing on the bladder. Can you use an ex-pen and then support her by the legs when you take her out to pee? Then if she does pee you could put the sling on her again.The ex-pen would be to limit her ability to move around. You could also make a quick figure 8 sling from 2 leashes. That should not press on the bladder. My vet showed me how to make one for my Frankie. Here is how to make a figure 8 sling: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpg
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Mar 18, 2017 18:51:41 GMT -7
Maisy is now 9 weeks post op. She is doing well with the exception of a non-relenting UTI. Her most recent culture turned out to be MRSP. We had done three rounds of antibiotics prior to that to treat the other bacteria, which is still present. Most recently 10 days of injections and sub-q fluids and as of this week the MRSP is gone. The neurologist spoke to internal medicine who said to stop antibiotic treatments for now as long as she has no symptoms. They plan to culture her again in a couple of weeks to see where things are. Her physical therapist/vet discussed maybe lasering her badder, although has no evidence that it will be helpful. She got her cart from Eddie's Wheels a couple of weeks ago. I am not too surprised that she hates it. She is like a statue, which is what she does when anything is on her. I have been putting her in it daily. We have progressed to taking treats in it and a few steps. She moved more when my friend brought her rabbit over and we put the two in the backyard. Unfortunately, she is not food motivated. I am guessing it will just take time, and for my stubborn girl it will take even more time. In terms of progress she does not have deep pain. For some reason though she wags her tail and I am noticing her left leg getting stronger. She is trying to lift herself off the ground with it. I am wondering if she may end up being a spinal walker, but time will tell. Any thoughts about the incontinence? For the most part we are on a schedule and do well. She is an anxious/excited pee"er" so that happens a lot. She is also on and off with loose stools probably from the antibiotics. What do you think about diapers just for times when she might be anxious or excited? I really would prefer not to, but even when her bladder feels empty she manages to squeeze more out. scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17155431_10154172469466946_2664309337737152395_n.jpg?oh=ac8121661cba4db3b6f6ceb70f51fb8c&oe=596566CF
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 18, 2017 20:18:30 GMT -7
Mandy, hope the MRSP will show to be resolved at the next culture. Antibiotics can really do a number on digestion as they kill both the bad bacteria (hopefully all of them) and they kill the good bacteria essential to digestion. I'm dealing with loose stools with my Clark after a round of antibiotic. Talk with your vet about getting a probiotic (bottle of good bacteria) for Maisy to help re-establish the balance of bacteria in the gut. Was it your neuro surgeon who identified no deep pain sensation or your local general DVM vet? And what date was the DPS test given? I would only take the word of a specialist on DPS. It is also possible that since the last test for DPS, there has been some nerve repair of some leg movement and trying to move up into a stand. If you are seeing those kinds of movement, it may be well worth your while to seek out underwater treadmill. If leg movement function is returning, that may be the reason she is not liking the cart. Since she is not food motivated you might try a game of tossing one of those squeaky toys as motivation to move in the cart. Another idea is to gently touch under her chest. That sensation may cause her to move forward in the cart. She might then see the cart is a good thing to help her move??? The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.
Does the wag happen when you specifically do some happy talk to her? Has Maisy passed the sniff and pee test or are you still expressing her bladder and expressing for poop? Sometimes leg function can start to come back before bladder control. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. More info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Mar 18, 2017 23:52:38 GMT -7
Thanks! Maisy has been doing the water treadmill since she was 2 weeks post surgery. In RI we have a great rehab place called Healing Paws. She goes M-F while I am at work. She gets acupuncture, laser, range of motion, massage, water treadmill, etc. They spread them out throughout the week. Most dogs just go for their appointments but Maisy spends the day and they basically crate her, toilet her, and then take her out for her therapies.
Her neurologist did the DPS test about 3 weeks ago, at the 6 week mark, I think. There really is no sniff and pee going on, her tail wag is more rhythmic and kind of random. Her left leg is definitely stronger than her right and is trying to work more. Her right leg pretty much does nothing, but the reflexes in both legs are getting stronger.
In terms of the cart. I have literally tried everything to get her moving (food, toys, her favorite games, other dogs, going into public, pet stores, her old daycare, etc). She is the type of dog that a harness or sweater will turn her into a statue. Currently, she will take a few steps and then be done. The fact that she is taking treats in her cart, eating out of her dish and taking steps on "her terms" is progress. She is sooooo stubborn and hates anything on her chest.
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 19, 2017 10:05:09 GMT -7
Mandy, you do know your dog! Keep on coaxing her cart use with those positive measures. Hopefully one day she will be running either with the cart or without to feel the wonderful wind blowing her ears! The Eddies looks to be fitted correctly for her. My Clark has enjoyed his since 2007 through mud puddles, over branches and speeding down a fairway!
Do be looking for that unmistakable happy tail wag when you've done some happy talk to her...it looks much different than a reflex random jerky tail movement such as at potty time. There is not a timetable for when nerve repair can happen. Likely it would not be a matter of weeks but more like months or even a year out. The important thing is to be pain free, be able to join in family activity and enjoy her home as she did before the disc problem.
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Apr 21, 2017 16:07:12 GMT -7
Weight loss I am wondering how much weight for a paralyzed dog to lose. Maisy was not overweight before her surgery in January. Actually she was probably a little underweight. She was 22 lbs and is now 16lbs. I know a lot of it is muscle loss, but should the weight loss stop soon? She is eating pretty normal for herself (picky and will skip meals) and she eats Orijen a high protein diet. Any thoughts?
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 21, 2017 16:58:13 GMT -7
Welcome back to Dodgerslist, Mandy! It isn't typical of IVDD dogs to lose weight...Most of them gain weight over crate rest due to inactivity while they heal. The muscles bulk back up soon as they gradually return to activity.. There could be an underlying reason for Maisy's weight loss and I would discuss that with her Vet.. My Tyler is also a picky eater but if he rejects food or doesn't eat, I find him another food. He is very happy with his current foods now..Too much weight loss is not a good thing. It could be that Maisy doesn't like Orijen any more.. I know they have different varieties within that brand, perhaps she would like a change to one of their other varieties.. Orijen, I have heard has moved to the USA and has changed their formula... I read some reviews from people saying their dogs no longer like it.. Just in case check out Dog food advisor and see if you can find something more to her liking.. How to grade your dog’s food and rated brands: www.dogfoodadvisor.comSelecting the best commercial foods: www.dogaware.com/diet/commercial.html#selectDog food labels 101. Learn what the ingredients mean: www.dogfoodproject.comThis site rates dog foods available, both kibble and canned: www.dogfoodanalysis.com
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Apr 21, 2017 18:13:50 GMT -7
Thanks! She actually has eaten the Orijen better since her surgery. When she won't eat it I put some of her favorite treats (Tucker's Chicken and Bacon Jerky), which I grind into tiny pieces on it. Sometimes that helps, sometimes she just licks it off and spits out all the food. I have tried other brands and she does the same thing. She is like a toddler. Sometimes she is super super hungry, and sometimes not at all. When she is hungry I just let her keep eating. I wouldn't say she is eating any less than she did in the past. The back 1/4 of her body is pretty much all atrophied. She goes to her therapy place M-F and gets hydrotherapy, acupuncture, laser, range of motion, and massage. She has definitely made improvements. In the water they used to have to move her legs for her. Now with the tail pinch she moves her legs on her own. Out of the water she is starting to lift her back end a bit. She has even stood for a few seconds on her own. Still no bladder control although she does some sniffing and peeing on her favorite neighborhood lawns, not consistent. Her tail wag is also not consistent, but does happen when excited and sometimes randomly. She has developed this weird tic thing when at rest (not sleeping and not awake). I sent a video to her neurologist who said not to be concerned unless it happens when she is up and moving. She also continues to have a UTI, which has been present since shortly after her surgery. They have stopped trying to treat it and test her monthly to make sure it isn't growing a new bacteria. They say as long as she has no symptoms they don't want to treat it. Kind of makes me nervous. She is moving in her cart now and we can go for walks and to the dog park I am going to email neurologist and her regular vet about the weight loss. Up until now no has commented on the weight loss.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 21, 2017 21:37:59 GMT -7
Hi Mandy, Thank you for sharing the videos, she is really moving well in her cart and that will help her regain some strength and stamina as time goes on and many dogs do go on to walk with the help of their cart. The playtime video with the interactive toy looked like so much fun for Maisy.. I may have to get one for Tyler.. where did you find it? Her nerves are still healing and that can take some time but the fact that she is attempting to stand and lifting her back end and she is beginning to get bladder control back proves her nerves are well on the way towards regenerating. After she sniffs and pees. be sure to do a quick express check to make sure she is completely empty.. Regarding the recurrent UTI please read this article that explains what might be going on with Maisy! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/uti.htmREGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. Acupuncture and Laser Therapy stimulate the cell’s metabolism that leads to the body’s natural repair abilities and can be started at any time. Once nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience. There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag! 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Apr 22, 2017 3:36:33 GMT -7
Thank you! They sell the toy on amazon and in toy stores. It is made by Playskool Chase 'n Go Ball Popper. I chose it because I knew she would quickly learn how to use it and enjoy it. When I first got it she went through the batteries in a weekend. In terms of her UTI. I think I am going to get a second opinion. She took a few antibiotics and then ended up with MRSP. The injections she needed for that took care of the MRSP, but she continues to have Enterobacter, which has been there all along. The internist that works at the hospital where the neurologist is said that some dogs just live with that bacteria, and as long as they have no symptoms it is ok.
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Apr 26, 2017 18:56:56 GMT -7
Last question for now. Have you heard of IVDD dogs developing tics/spasms when they are resting. Maisy had her surgery at the end of January and I have been noticing them for about the last month. I don't believe they happen when she is sleeping and more resting/on her way to sleeping.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 26, 2017 20:20:18 GMT -7
It could be the nerves and muscles are healing and that's causing it. Does Maisy seem to be in pain? Definitely check with your surgeon or vet though.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 26, 2017 22:11:49 GMT -7
Hi Mandy, My Tyler has these "spasms" too but they are in his back legs. He kicks his legs out. This page explains it as "hyper reflexes" He isn't in pain and it doesn't seem to bother him. Tyler does it when he is awake and also sometimes in his sleep. www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/leg%20spasms.htmDoes it bother Maisy or does she seem to be in pain? If so let her Vet know.
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Jun 2, 2017 19:20:27 GMT -7
Maisy is famous. She made the local news at her rehab.
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 2, 2017 21:56:41 GMT -7
Maisy is a star for sure! Thanks for sharing the video with us!
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 3, 2017 7:26:33 GMT -7
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Jun 3, 2017 12:39:08 GMT -7
Thanks for sharing! No she is not using her back legs. She will stand to eat her breakfast if I put her in the right position. In the water she now only requires a small tail pinch to move her back legs. Initially she needed them moved for her and then a very hard tail pinch. No deep pain for this girl...
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Aug 27, 2017 18:52:53 GMT -7
Well we are still at it with the UTI's. It has never fully cleared up from right after her surgery in February. Over the last two months it has been a nightmare with the lab cultures coming back with very different results by the day. The vets here are wanting her to fight it off on her own since there are no good med options at this time. Within the last 3 weeks she started episodically urinating blood and becoming more incontinent. I took her to Tufts School Vet Medicine for a 2nd opinion. They did an ultrasound and said her kidneys are looking healthy and the blood test shows the same. Unfortunately, her bladder is taking a beating and I am wondering how long before it travels to the rest of her system? The only recommendation for now is to give her daily probiotics. They tried to tell me she is more incontinent because of worsening neurological signs. I don't buy that. Until her UTI suddenly got worse she was needing to be expressed. Any recommendations or thoughts?
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Post by Pauliana on Aug 27, 2017 19:54:02 GMT -7
She should still be expressed if she is not able to sniff and pee on her own.. Overflowing urine is not the same thing as bladder control and just makes her UTI's worse..Overflowing only releases some of the urine and the rest sits in the bladder gathering bacteria.. She should be expressed on her normal schedule every 4-6 hours or more often depending on how long she stays dry between expressing. Expressing her will keep her bladder healthy. Here is an article about resistant UTI's. I hope it will help. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/uti.htm
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 28, 2017 12:22:30 GMT -7
Mandy what where the credentials of the Tuft's vet....a intermal med specialist or a general DVM vet?
The lab results report a different bacteria speciies each time? That article on resistant UTIs Pauli gave is a good one and good idea to see a specialist if you did not see one at Tufts.
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Aug 28, 2017 18:36:39 GMT -7
Thanks, She has always had her bladder expressed throughout the day and would stay dry 90% of the time with occasional leaking when excited. Now that her UTI is so bad she has no bladder to feel. To get urine out of her I have to stimulate her by rubbing a wet cloth on her. I did see a specialist at Tufts and at her regular animal hospital here as well. Both are Internists and consult with the Neurologist. Basically, Maisy got a UTI about 2 weeks post op and it has never cleared. One species the Enterobacter has always remained. She had MRSP that cleared. Recently she had MRSP that was resistant to about everything and then as they were looking for a viable med option it came back as MRSS also resistant to about everything but Amicasin. She already was on Amicasin to treat the MRSP the first time around but they started seeing Casts in her urine and had to stop it. The lab also at times said no bacteria which made no sense and when told to rerun it they said full of bacteria. They dont want to use it again since it is kidney toxic. I feel like the specialists are basically saying just sit back and see what happens. She no longer can hold her urine, it episodically has blood and clots in it, and it smells real bad. This has been going on for 3 weeks now. I have no idea what to do anymore...
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 29, 2017 9:46:51 GMT -7
Mandy, sounds like you have sought out and have done the necessary. Sometimes it is just a differenet intermal med specialist that maybe might see a different approach?? Would it be possible to find a new internal med specialist with a fresh look on the case who maybe might see something the others have missed. From the article on Recurrent UIT's, do also read the additional readings at the end. Have you tried any of these ideas? -- Maisy is scooting? Bacteria have a very short pathway into the bladder when scooting on the floor or sitting on the ground especially for females. Butt protection “panties” can help keep this area clean. Jill’s no-sew idea: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/aftercraterest/Buttprotect.htmClark’s easy-sew idea: users.cyberport.net/~milnerwm/bumpad1.html-- Antibacterial wipes, which can keep bacteria numbers low in the genital area and prevent them from gaining entry into the bladder. Betadine is povidone-iodine, an antiseptic microbicide. At a drug store, you will get 10% strength, which is equal to 1% available iodine. $19 for 16 oz bottle sold over the counter It's in the "first-aid" section of the drug store. Betadine solution will leave a slightly brownish stain on the skin. -- Daily probiotic product to help improve the ratio of good bacteria in the gut to out number the bad bacteria. On the idea a heathy gut may well contribute to better over all health, better immune system...maybe even thereby help the bladder situation?? Antibiotics kill all the bacteria in the gut-- both the good and bad.
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Post by Mandy & Maisy on Aug 29, 2017 18:20:18 GMT -7
Tufts was the fresh look with a new internist. She actually called me today with some good news. Maisy's UA and sensitivity came back as Proteus which is completely different from the last several months. It is sensitive to Amoxicillin. They decided to put her on 250mg 3xd for 2 months. I am really hoping this helps. I find it strange that the organism keeps changing every couple of weeks. We will do a UA in two weeks to see how things look. For now she can get back in the water for therapy. She does take a daily probiotic and I started giving her Tinkle Tonic 2 weeks ago as an herbal supplement. Who knows if that has helped or not but no blood since then. I will look for the Betadine in the store and start using that as well. After 2 months of no answers we finally have something to try. We shall see what happens. Thanks for the support.
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