Post by John & Marley on Dec 12, 2016 18:40:59 GMT -7
Wish I was reaching out to you on a happier note , however Marleys Back problem has come back. I didnt post on Dodgerslist cause its been very tumultuous the past few months. This all started back in Sept, Two days before Marleys Back flared up - my better half she Lost her job Then Marleys Back went out. This is very long and its why I didnt want to post in Dodgerlist not sure how much to post and not clog the forum up with a book and we thought it was under control.
On Sept 12th Marley was on the couch laying between my legs and a pizza delivery late at night drove into our driveway by accident he flew off the couch. Normally he is lifted and put on the ground if I leave the couch. He acted fine afterwards for the next week we kept him inside and limited his activity for 2 weeks+ everything was fine walking moving no signs of issues.
Sept 29th
Then he went out side to POO and I saw twitching in his lower back and then he tried to sit on his butt didnt feel good then tried his side and couldnt get comfy so I carried him in and let stay in a crate where he just layed there would not move - clearly in pain- He doesn't cry or wimper For a few hrs he just layed there...
We were unable to get him to the vet till later that day, By afternoon noon Marley was moving in his crate gingerly. At the Vets he wasn't exhibiting any pain but was a lil tense in tummy when being evaluated . He was acting normal moving fine
So here we go. Marley is 18 lbs , 8 1/2 years old
Sept 12 jumped Sept 29 showed pain after poo Sept 29, Vet put Marley on Meds Prednisone 2xDay / 4 days , 1x /4days 1X alternating Sept 29th Marley shows Pain can't sit
Vet put Marley on 5mg Prednisone 2X a day for 4 days, felt it wasn't a severe flareup. ( Looking back I should have been more aggressive)
Was given Pepcid AC when being given the Prednisone. Prednisone 5mg
Tramadol 50mg -1/2 tablet given as needed. Pepcid AC 10mg tab cut in half =5mg - 30 minutes before given Prednisone
It was like a day after it happened he seemed fine but we put him on his crate rest doing 8 weeks.
Marley was doing fine Crate rest and acting normal had 5 weeks crate rest and was Doing Great.
It was Nov 3rd and there was a racket commotion in the cul de sac in front of our house. Marley jumped up from his sleep and barked ( Was in his crate ) but he moved very quickly.
Next Morning doing a poo his back area spine spasms, couldn't sit could get comfy.
Called the Vets , Vet said to start him on Prednisone and Tramadol again and Gabapentin
Was given Pepcid AC when being given the Prednisone. 30 min prior Prednisone[as of 11/3]: 5mg 2 x day for 7 days then 1x day / 7 days and alternating days for 7 days Tramadol 50mg -1/2 tablet given for 5 days as needed Gabapentin 200mg - give 1/4 tab 2 X a day gave him for 5 days.
So this was the 2nd round of his back flaring up
We took Xrays this time and there was nothing visible on the xrays showing anything ut f the normal,
Nov 3rd till Dec 12 tonight we were counting the weeks till Jan to start doing Rehab was going great
Strict CRATE REST ,
He was going 2x a week for Cold Laser Sessions and started 1 a week for past 2 weeks so a total of 8 Sessions so far.
Carried to do Potty and Pee , and carried back in, has a area maybe 8' x 8' to do his business, was walking fine, would stretch his back out after a poo but that was normal,
So tonight Dec 12th - he Gets carried out and poos and then try's to stretch oddly then another way , Bring him in the house and see how he is moving and he walking oddly 2 - 3 steps and cant sit comfy on butt or his side. here we go again. He is in pain
not extreme pain but uncomfortable. Vets offices are closed cant get him in till Tue.
I have on hand Prednisone , Tramadol and Gabapentin.
I gave Marley Tramadol and Gabapentin to help with Pain for tonight
Will not give Prednisone
in case Vets wants to give something out or increase dosage.
He has been on strict crate rest, Carried to potty and pees when goes to the Vets he gets carried on a Solid Wooden Tray ( 19 x 30 inches padded) so he isn't held or jostled or twisted about for his visits even his Laser Sessions.
He does sleep next to me in Bed - BUT he is on his Tray which is padded, one side is butted against the wall - the top and bottom are up against pillows and I am on the right side of the tray so if he needs to go potty I can sense it ,( especially when on his meds ) - He does not bark- or make sounds even when in pain he communicates with me by lifting his paw and pawing me when he needs to go potty or by looking at me and looking at the back door.
Sept 29 showed pain after poo and on Drugs for 4 days then weaned off, ( P+T ) Nov 4th showed pain again then Drugs for 7 days and weaned off ( P + T + G ) Dec 12 showed pain again ( Tonight ) cant sit be comfy
After each flare up he seems normal in his crate he walks fine when doing his P's and Poos, we have reduced his food so not to gain weight and so he wouldn't have to poo as much.
Not sure what to do , Any insight to what we do next, this is the 3rd flare up since Sept 29 and prior times returned to normal while in Crate rest.
Thanks in advance
( Feb 2017 would have been 3 years since his Original IVDD incident - which he made a complete recovery by doing Conservative Treatment )
John I'm so sorry to hear Marley is having a tough time with this current disc episode.
With the 11/3 seven- day course of pred having been completed and gone to taper completion plus off all pain meds, the pain observed on Dec 3, is likely either the same disc or another. No way to tell without an MRI.
Xrays do not proove a disc episode but are used to rule out other things that mimic a disc problem such as tumor, fracture vertebrae from jumping/car accident, or even an infection when the vet is suspicious something other than an IVDD episode is going on.
If each of these disc episodes 9/29, 11/3 and now a possible 12/3 relapse to the same disc, then it may be time to give thought if surgery could be an option. If the Dec 3 was another disc, then the 8 weeks of crate rest count would start as of Dec 3 the same if you choose conservative for a relapsed disc. Relapse means the early healing disc received too much movement when the scar tissue was weak prior to the end of 8 weeks of rest.
So without an MRI to figure things out, or if surgery just is not an option for your family, the conservative treatment is the road to take.
Laser is a wonderful therapy as an adjunct to an aggressive pain med approach when extra help with pain is needed. Laser is also good for stimulation to jump start nerves to self repair when there is diminishment of neuro function. Transporting is always risky business as is anytime out of the recovery suite would be. Do give some thought to the reason for going for laser and the benefit to be gained vs. risk to the early healing disc.
Can you tell us more about the walking oddly. --- Does he favor one back leg, not wanting to fully bear weight? that is pain --- Do his nails graze the floor because he is not able to lift them up correctly? that is neuro diminishment --- Do his paws knuckle under, he is not able to place his foot flat on the floor properly? That is neuro diminishment. --- Do the leg wobbly or cross when taking footsteps? That is neuro diminishment
If you are seeing neuro diminishment the sooner prednisone is started the sooner nerves can stop dying and turn around the diminishment. Prednisone is the most powerful of the two classes of anti-inflammatory drugs. NSAID usually are given when there is no neuro dimishment, just pain. When there is nerve function decline, most vets would use a steroid like prednisone.
If you are at this point only seeing signs of pain, then do use the pain meds. They will be out of his system by time of the vet visit. They last about 8 hours and the vet will be able to best diagnose Marley.
Pepcid AC (famotidine) is used at the 2x/day as that will keep the level of suppression of stomach acids in the body. Give any anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID or steroid) with a meal as added GI tract protection.
Let us know what the vet says tomorrow morning (Tuesday). Keeping Marley in our thoughts that pain meds tonight will mask any pain and that nerve damage will not happen.
Post by John & Marley on Dec 12, 2016 19:44:40 GMT -7
Paula,
He just got taken outside to do his Biz, Prior to picking him up he was moving normally, did his stretch in the crate before he gets ready to be picked up.
Put him down he took 2 - 3 steps normally no sign of anything odd peed 18 seconds long and was picked up. Back in his crate and soon afterwards he was fluffing up his blanky so he could go to sleep.. He is acting normal now.
With his last Prednisone at 5mg was that the max dosage allowed ? for his weight... ? Suggestions ?
I Seem to remember reading this statement on Dodgers :
With prednisone it may take 7-30 days up at the original anti-inflammatory dose. Taper days do not count towards reducing swelling. The taper is to test for pain. If pain, another course of the anti-inflammatory level 2x/day is needed.
Does the above mean Prednisone can be given for more than 7 days at 2x a day ?
About his walking , when he showed pain at 6pm, he was walking slowly a lil wobbly- tipsy not falling over still had control. wanted to sit down but could not get comfy sitting on his butt then tried to sit on his hip but finally layed down....
John sounds like the pain meds you have given have pain in control if he can fluff his blanket.
Prednisone 5mgs 2x/day is what your vet prescribed for a 7-day course on Nov 3, then he called for a taper to start which is below the anti-inflammatory dose. Taper days do not work on getting swelling down because they are lower than the anti-inflammatory level. Taper days are a perfect test for pain with IVDD that the owner monitors for and alerts their vet if observed.
Pain= another course of prednisone at the anti-inflammatory level + all pain meds back on board. No Pain= go to conclusion of the pred taper...not meds at all are needed.... finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal.
Do differentiate wobbly because of pain or wobbly because of loosing nerve function. If he is no longer wobbly after pain meds, then it may have been touchy/painfulness that made the walk different.
Let us know what the vet says in the morning. A phone call with your observations may be all that is needed for the vet to make a decision on the meds.
Post by John & Marley on Dec 12, 2016 20:40:12 GMT -7
I understand that taper days do not count that they are below the anti-inflammatory dose. Was wondering since he did do a 7 day and then a Taper and then this episode tonight , should more than 7 days at 2 a day be considered. The Vet the first time only went 4 days,,,and I like to be more aggressive since this is the 3rd time since Sept. He finished his last PREDNISONE at2 a days back on Nov 10 then did his taper finished on Dec 1 was his last 1 a day alternating.
This has me confused :
Pain= another course of prednisone at the anti-inflammatory level + all pain meds back on board.
He was showing pain because he couldn't sit back on his butt or get comfy on his hip. he wasn't shaking just could not get in a position that felt good to him. which what the prior two incidents were l like.
I would say his wobbly was because of Pain not nerve loosing function - however I didn't let him take more than a few steps when I saw he was having issues.
Since I have the Prednisone on Hand I'm going to start him on it tonight and not wait back till I hear from the Vet some time in the morning , He did give me extra in case of a flare up like this happening. I have given him his Pepcid already.
John, no ones knows how long the course of pred should be. Prednisone's job is only to get painful spinal cord swelling down. No one wants to use prednisone one bit longer than past the benefit...getting all inflammation resolved. Using prednisone longer than necessary means there is no benefit to be gained just all the adverse side effect this drug can have.
So.... a vet has to make a guess as to how many days at the anti-inflammatory level will be needed. Often that guess is for 5-7 days or even 14 days. The taper will give the proof if another course of pred is needed or not. Pred must to be tapered to signal the body to make its own steroid hormone. The taper is also a perfect window into spinal cord inflammation to see if it is resolved or not. Rule of thumb is: pain surfacing on the taper = swelling = another course back up at anti-inflammatory level, pain meds and Pepcid AC.
It may take a total of 7-30 days of 1 or more courses of pred to get the swelling down. The course of pred that matters to the spinal cord is the anti-inflammatory level given 2x/day. To be safe about not using pred longer than necessary, it is prudent to give a 5-7 day course or even a 14-day course and then do a test-for-pain pred taper.
Marley had been fully off of pred as of Dec 1 + fully off pain meds. That was proof that all swelling had been resolved. With the 12/12 pain appearing that indicates same disc still healing had a re-crack/re-tear/relapse. Or it can be a different disc. In either case crate rest count restarts as of Dec 12.
When is the last time Marley's anal glands were expressed, examined for any infection?
John we may miss important updates if you re-edit a post after we have already bold faced the post for clues. Just make a new post if you have new information for us. Thanks bunches!
Post by John & Marley on Dec 12, 2016 21:22:19 GMT -7
His anal Glands were done a Week ago Monday Dec 5th, no infection, he felt Marley said no signs of back or tummy tightening , He then had Laser Session afterwards. The Vet that Takes care Of Marley is the only one who does his glands. The Vet understands.
I concur that a re tear/ relapse has happened and crate rest starts a new 8 weeks as Dec 13th.. poor guy he has been on crate rest since Sept. 29, he is going stir crazy,...
As for the Prednisone given twice a day how much leeway does one have in giving it 12 hrs apart ? like in the am he gets fed at 7am and din din at 5pm the over night is 14 - 15 hr time gap and evening meals is like 9 hrs...
Twice a day generally means every 12 hours. Since Pred needs to be given with food, if the timing with a meal isn't right for the next dose, I would give the Pred , with a small meal perhaps a portion saved back from his earlier dinner.. That's what I do with Tyler when he is taking meds that are off schedule with his actual dinner..
Feel better soon, Marley!
Last Edit: Dec 12, 2016 23:09:55 GMT -7 by Pauliana
Post by John & Marley on Dec 15, 2016 18:28:46 GMT -7
After Mondays Nites Flareup with his Back, He went on his PREDNISONE, Tramadol and Gabapentin that nite. Vet visit on Tuesday Dec 13. he had his Laser Treatment - Vet that has been treating him is out of town but got a Phone verbal to start on a 7 day 2X till we go back in Next Tuesday for his next Laser Session when the Vet is back in office and will talk more then. { When He goes to the Vets for Laser or a consult he sits on fleece padded wooden board 18 " x 28 " so he is laying flat and not twisted on a lap or jostled about. } Currently: 100 % CRATE REST
[18 lbs] Prednisone as of 12/12: 5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day - 30 min prior Prednisone Gabapentin 50mgs 2x/day 1/4 tab Given 2X Day (Quad Tabs 200mg) Tramadol 25mgs 2x/day 1/2 tab Given 2X Day (Full Tab 50mg)
Monday Nite 2 - 3 hrs after his flareup after being given his Gab & Tram he was moving normal stretching went out to Pee was wagging tail , sleeping on his back acting completely normal Since Monday nite He walks moves about like normal,sleeps upside down stretches and so on - he gets carried outside - he is put on ground he takes 5 to 10 steps on his own - no support - fully 100% function-able - Lifts leg most of the time -and does a 30 second Pee and then gets picked up and carried back in and goes in his crate- Has done two Poos and no problem . Crate is 24 x 36 and is on wheels- where he gets rolled to where ever we are. 100 % Crate LOCKDOWN
Since this is the 3rd flareup since Sept . Sept 29 1st Flareup Prednisone for 4 days 2X then Taper 30 Days since ending Prednisone 2X day + going on to taper - No pain showed Nov 3rd Flareup again - Prednisone for 7 Days 2x then Taper 31 Days since ending Prednisone 2X day + going on to taper - No Pain Showed Dec 12th 3rd Flareup - Prednisone {Maybe 7 Days } then Taper
1st Back Episode and the following two episodes started by him going POOPY - Hunched over pushing out a Poo twice I saw his back in a spot twitch and spasm a lil, then he walked in pain a few steps slowly like a old man tried to sit down and could not sit straight back on his butt then tried to sit on his hip finally after some shifting he sat. Got carried in house in crate and layed in his crate not wanting to move , not shaking not wanting anything to do with his toys. With in a few hours he was close to being back to normal. 1st Time Vet saw him he said a lil tense in tummy not extreme at all , thats why only did a 4 day 2x - Taper Prednisone Treatment.
His Diet is the same, He eats Raw Food, Krill Oil, Vit E, Probiotics, Ester C, SpiruGreen, + Curcumin. Used to get 2 .75 Ounces Raw per Meal- now due to Crate rest is only Getting 2.25 oz TWO Times a day so he doesnt gain weight. Also to put less strain so he has to Poo less. Has been on this diet for 4 + Years.
Since he did a 4 Day and then 30 days later a 7 Day Prednisone @ 2X , & day @ 1X and & Alternating 7 days Taper I am concerned he needs a longer time frame on Prednisone. I am thinking of 11 to possibly 14 Days maybe even 21 days at 2 X Day then a taper.
( I Personally being layed up in bed for months from a accident so I know about Muscle atrophy - A Human can rationalized what to and not to do to prevent injury you cant explain that to a dog)
He has been going stir crazy since Sept 29th and this current 8 Weeks wont end Till Feb. 2017 I really dont want him to faulter again and then lets say try 14 Prednisone 2X or 21 days. Id like to be aggressive now. Id like to know how many times have you seen or heard a Dog get 14 or 21 days at 2 X Day then start a Taper and what type of outcome.
The longer he stays crated he losses considerable Muscle tone from inactivity which then weakens his CORE putting him more at risk.
Your prior historical Knowledge will help with my talks with the Vet on Tue.
Normally Prednisone is given as a 5-7 day course and then tapered and pain meds are stopped at the same time so the taper can be a test to see if the painful swelling is gone.. If pain shows up, that means swelling is still ongoing and Prednisone and pain meds should be given for another course until the next taper. Giving Pred for a longer time is an option as it takes some dogs from 7-30 days to get the swelling down. It sometimes takes several Pred courses and tapers before the swelling is gone with the more stubborn cases.. It's just not a good idea to give Pred past the point that the swelling is gone because that just exposes Marley to side effects.. Discuss all this with your Vet and see how many days he thinks would be needed before a taper..
Post by John & Marley on Dec 16, 2016 6:07:59 GMT -7
In your reply : "as it takes some dogs from 7-30 days" <- So I am understanding is that a Dog can be on 11 days of Prednsisone @ 2Xday , even 14 days and even longer than that. Granted it is not the norm. My Vet is a Country Vet, He is good , has dealt with IVDD before , not a specialist so going outised the box my not be in his game plan.
Marley is now on his 3rd Round of Prednisone Course and Taper. Has been on 10 weeks Crate already and now having to do another 7 Weeks, that adds up to 18 weeks basically - That creates alot of Muscle Atrophy due to confinement - thats why I'm trying to find out doing 11, 14 or 20 Days of Prednisone at 2X Day then a taper. I need to get my head around this so when I meet the Vet on Tuesday I know how to approach it. John
John, because no one wants to use Pred one bit longer than when the benefit has been achieved, it is a very prudent thing to Rx a course of pred for 5-7 days and in some cases 14 days and then find out with a quick assessment if pred would still be needed. That assessment can take a matter of hours or it may be a couple of days. The assessment is called a pred taper + stopping/backing off of all pain meds. At home you would monitor for any pain surfacing or neuro function regressing. On the taper if there are no signs of pain surfacing, then you have proof the pred benefit has been achieved....all painful spinal cord swelling is gone and you see no increased diminishment of nerve function....the taper goes to completion.
When a taper is to happen over the weekend or holidays, it is always best to have developed a plan B with your vet if pain would surface on the taper--- what to do til the vet reopens. So a plan B could be that when the vet is closed IF you would see pain, that you have instructions to go back up to the orig anti-finammatory dose 2x/day and all pain meds back on board and when the vet opens alert him of the pain. Part of plan B might be to have a script in hand for more pills to tide you over that could be filled at a 24hr pharmacy. This plan B can save you an expensive ER visit to get more medications.
It could take any where from as soon as 7 days and for some dogs even over a month (comprised of several pred courses) for pred to fully resolve all spinal cord swelling counting from the date of the most current disc episode or a relapsed disc within the 8 weeks. You might find a med chart helpful to note med cause/effect in reporting things back to the vet. D/l and print from here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/crateRRP/medchart.pdf
The disc is not flaring up. Rather when the disc looses flexibility and can no longer cushion the vertebrae and bounce back, the degenerated disc will develop tiny cracks. The cracking itself can be painful and can begin to push into the spinal cord (bulge) causing mild neuro problems.
If pressure continues to the damaged disc it might actually tear, and the inside of the disc will escape and cause severe pressure to the cord --- big pain and potential to cause severe neuro diminishment. During the 8 weeks it takes to heal the disc, the weak scar on the surface of the disc can be easily disrupted by too much movement. IF the scar tissue is disrupted the disc healing stage has relapsed and the 8 week count restarts to give time to reform the scar tissue.
Let us know what your vet decides on Marley's meds.
Post by John & Marley on Dec 21, 2016 3:48:35 GMT -7
Marleys update : He will do a total of ▲9 days on
[18 lbs] Prednisone started on 12/12: 5mgs 2x/day for 9 ▲10 days, then taper doses Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day - 30 min prior Prednisone
Which ends on Thursday Dec 22.
Pain Med ended last night to see if any pain shows up on last two days of Prednisone @ 2 X Days Before Starting Taper. He has not showned any signs of pain since the flareup on the 12th, he has moved fine . Vet Feels his bulging disc is healing since each his of 2 flareups since Sept 29th (1st flareup ) has showed less discomfort / pain and He is acting normal & feeling normal has gone from a few hours to less than a hour back on Dec 12,2016 a shortened time line.
John, usually pain meds are not backed off/stopped until the taper begins. Do keep us posted. We are keeping our fingers crossed that no pain will surface and the taper can go to conclusion.
Post by John & Marley on Dec 21, 2016 12:10:06 GMT -7
Marley in his Crate , He has his routine where he moves back so i can place the Mat then he tap dances on it while I put his head band before his food bowl gets placed. As you see by the crate - it has a water bowl full time in the corner, a rolled up fleece pillow under the water bowl - width of crate and plenty of room for him to stretch out . It is on wheels and has a front door as well. I highly recommend this Crate as a 8 week Suite for Conservative Treatment. This was taken a day ago and as you see Mars is moving very well.
John, it is good to see that Marley is walking without any pain at all.
Each time the vertebrae move during walking these bones naturally press on all the discs including the bad one. The bad disc is still in the early stages of forming scar tissue. This weak tissue can very easily be disrupted with a tear, pain and having to start all over again with the 8 week count of crate rest to again form the needed scar tissue.
What options do you have to limit the footsteps to the bare minimal footsteps, the very, very fewests of footsteps to take care of business? A 6 foot leash and harness where you stand in one spot and Marley may not take more than the 6 foot leash allows. For me and my dog, the better choice was an 8 panel expen or other fence in the grass which better let my dog know there would be no walking around, no sniff festing.
Let us know which method of protecting the disc you find works best for Marley.
Post by John & Marley on Dec 23, 2016 6:31:29 GMT -7
Will be doing the leash, he cant do a xpen it freaks him out if the metal gets tapped and rattles thats why his crate has wood corners...
Also in that Video its hard to see it is sectioned off by fishing line - its 8' x8' sectioned off area -which he wont cross but I agree he had too much freedom coming back to the screen door too much walking after the Pee. So he is on leash now.
Last Edit: Dec 23, 2016 8:15:33 GMT -7 by John & Marley: More Info
Post by John & Marley on Jan 29, 2017 16:59:56 GMT -7
Marley did a 10 Day Regimen of Prednisone (10 days @ 2X -> 10 days 1X -> 10 alternating days of 1X every other day which ended on Jan15th 2 weeks ago Sunday )
[18 lbs Prednisone as of 12/12: 5mgs 2x/day for ▲10 days, then taper Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
Monday Jan 30th will be the start of his 8th week of STRICT CRATE REST
Been peeing and Pooing fine no issues, then Thursday Night after a poo he stretched - stepped - I picked him up - put him in crate he sat down uneasily shifted then layed down - a hour pasted and he got up stepped to water bowl and drank and layed down moved fine in crate rest of night. showed no shaking or pain.
Friday morning he was chomping on his anus - GRR anal gland full he chews them,,, twice I saw him curled up in a ball and stopped him, - if I dont he makes a bloody mess chewing himself. 3pm afternoon had Vet visit he checked Marleys back - said shows no sign of tension in tummy while he worked his fingers up and down spine - nothing indicated a back issue. The Vet did his anal glands - I only have a Vet do anal glands no techs ever. Vet said with no signs of pain or tummy tensing from this morning he feels may be a pulled muscle and while he bounces back so fast. Vet asked about his diet and how his poos were . He eats Raw Food ( which is very moist ) and drinks PLENTY of Water- his Poos come out pliable like play-dough not hard - firm bends easily in between fingers which I picked up minutes after he does it checking for blood and consistency .
That was Friday : He pooed Sat - AOK and this Sunday Morning his POO it was AOK - now tonight after Peeing he wanted to Poo again which he usually does once a day but he bent over pooed then stretched stepped oddly got picked up put in crate. Layed down on side not shaking or showing pain,, just layed down on side not on butt layed down, some 30 minutes later got up walked in crate ( 36" Long Crate ) to water bowl drank and layed down. 30 minutes later Pizza guy delivered he was standing on all fours with a few woofs hellos wagging tail,,,, drank and layed down.
He is a stoic dog doesnt show pain or whine or wimper unless its EXTREME - his actions remind me of when my back muscles are sore and stiff - I rest them and pop back up...
Puzzling & confused....
Update His Poo was at 5pm est, it is now 8:18pm est and he pawed his crate to go do biz, took him out put him down he took 3-4 steps sniffed lifted his leg and peed for 15 seconds, leg down took 3 steps no problem got picked up asap. so again... Puzzling & confused....
I know what you mean, it can sometimes be very hard to tell if it's a disc episode or something else.. Tyler's last episode was undetermined by both me and the vet.. but we treated it like a disc episode just in case. The tricky part is Tyler has the same symptoms for a disc episode that he has for any other malady.. He'll stop eating, go into his crate and then close his own door. Very hard to tell sometimes.. I sympathize.
Did Marley act improved after having his anal glands expressed?
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2017 23:12:36 GMT -7 by Pauliana
Post by John & Marley on Jan 30, 2017 4:29:08 GMT -7
Marley after anal glands done didnt want to mess with his anus anymore.. Moved about in his crate like normal, its been just two bowel movements in past 7 weeks where he has felt uncomfortable sitting after a movement. its like every 5 to 6 weeks he needs them done, It would be nice if he was to scoot on his butt before he goes and poos . Being crate confined it limits his activity, so unless he tries to scoot like after a poo like on past Thursday when he did that which was being hunched over Bowel Movement then trying to scoot his BUTT gave him the flareup otherwise by not doing that he just goes into chomp chomp mode on his anus and one time it was a bloody mess and he gets OCD wanting to go back to that area. he will have to go in every 5 weeks for anal glands
You mentioned other MALADYS may I ask what other maladies gave you counter indications ?]
Glad to hear Marley is alot more comfortable after getting his glands expressed and back to normal.
John, I have merged your newly created thread called "update" into Marley's thread dealing with this 12/12/16 disc episode. This way we have the complete history to refer to.
Had Marley been on two courses of pred, did something happen (i.e. pain re-surfacing on the taper) during the 9 day course that caused the vet to Rx a new 10 day course on about 12/27?
Prednisone as of 12/12: 5mgs 2x/day for ▲9 days, then taper as of 12/27(?): ?mgs 2x/day for 10 days, then taper
Graduation day should have been on Jan 28, which was the end of the 8 weeks. Let us know more about the circumstances related to what appears was a 2nd course, a 10 day course) on about Dec 27th.
Post by John & Marley on Jan 30, 2017 11:57:09 GMT -7
Rd # 1 { Sept 29th - 4 Days of Prednisone 2X / 1X / 1X Alternating }+Tramadol Taper started Oct 4th from 2x day to one a day 32 days after Taper began he did a POO on Nov 4th - same description - same actions as in paragragh below in RED
Rd # 2 { Nov 5th - 7 Days of Prednisone 2X / 1X / 1X Alternating}+Tramadol+Gabapentin Taper started Nov 12th from 2x day to one a day 36 days after Taper began he did a POO on Dec 12th - same description - same activity as in paragragh below in RED
This is Marleys 3rd Course of Meds 10 Days Prednisone 2 Times a Day Starting Dec 12th ending on Dec 22 [then taper] + Tramadol + Gabapentin 10 Days Prednisone 1 Time a Day Starting Dec 23 ending on Jan 1 10 Days Prednisone Alternating days Starting Jan 3 ending on Jan 21
During this Taper no signs - no incidents - no pain
-> it was on Jan 27th he did a poo - stretched walked a couple steps but oddly - had control of legs just looked uncomfortable, put in crate layed down on hip - didnt feel comfy sitting back on his butt, 30 minutes to hr later he is up and walking in crate -drinking water - normal in his crate no signs or side effects at all, eats drinks, chomping on his sqeaky toys & fluffs up his bedding to his liking.
As you see above his taper started on Dec 23rd, finished his complete taper on Jan 21- This is 35 days since his taper from 2X aday to 1X aday started on Dec 23rd to Jan 26th -35 Full Days during which nothing showed. Again on Jan 29th and 30th he Pooed Stretched walked oddly - 30 minutes later AOK He has peed 2 to 3 times aday on each day since Jan 27th, takes 2- 3 steps completely NORMAL lift legs solid sturdy no wobbliness at all pees for 15- to 20 seconds and gets picked up within 2- 3 steps. Goes in Crate -Completely normal.
Tuesday the 31st will be his 16th Cold Laser treatment
Post by John & Marley on Jan 30, 2017 14:22:15 GMT -7
He tried rubbing his rump on Thursday 1/26 nite right after pooing took a couple of steps oddly ( like do i have a dangler / clingon - can i wiggle the funny feelin in my butt out which was really his anal glands.) - then then Friday morning twice he bent over and was chomping his anus left bite marks around his anus and then got anal glands got emptied on Friday 1/27 ,around 3pm On Sat 1/28 as well as Sunday 1/29 after doing his Poo he stretched walked a couple steps but oddly - had control of legs just looked uncomfortable, put in crate layed down on hip - didnt feel comfy sitting back on his butt, 30 minutes to hr later he is up and walking in crate -drinking water - normal in his crate no signs or side effects at all, eats drinks, chomping on his sqeaky toys & fluffs up his bedding to his liking.
Sept29th, Nov 5th Dec 12th each of those 3 dates after a poo he did what I described in red above - just on Nov 5th he took less time to be up and about, then Dec 30 minutes or so. and Jan 27th was after din din so he is sleepy so he napped for a hr till pizza guy showed up and was standing and barking normally.
John, I don't know but is sounds as though there was no disc relapse of 1/28. That perhaps odd walking and appearing uncomfortable was related to the bloody anal gland chewing event that he may still have been tender from.
So we will move your thread to the graduate board so that you may begin a very, very slow introduction back to normal physical activity.
Of course if you and your vet believe you are dealing with another disc episode that started on 1/29 we will put the thread back on the conservative board. Marley had completed all 8 weeks of crate rest to allow the disc to form secure scare tissue as of Jan 28.
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