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Post by dachsiehaven on Jun 2, 2013 12:40:23 GMT -7
Greetings. My name is Anne and my most recent addition to my IVDD dog collection is Fanny. Miss Fanny was just fine when she snuggled up in her bed for TV time on Thursday. When it was bedtime she couldn't stand up and flunked the toe turn test but had pain response on her feet. Having practice with IVDD I immediately crated her and dosed her with steroids. The next morning she wasn't showing any improvement so we were off to the vet where she once again failed the toe turn test but had good pain response. She has full bladder and bowel control and her tail wags. The vet gave her IV steroids, dmso treatment and laser treatment and kept her overnight. The unusual part of this episode is that she has no back pain at all. There were no symptoms leading up to the episode. She also show clean on her xrays (which I know are lousy indicators for IVDD). Her treatment regiment is crate rest with daily dose of dexamethizone (?) with famotidine and an anti anxiety pill. When I take her out for pee/poop time on the sling she moves her legs into the squat position with tail out straight to pee and poop. The only sign of trouble is that she is not walking her legs. As of this morning she could hold herself up but not take steps. I am new to the DodgersList forum but I have been on the Yahoo group and the Health and Nutrition group for around a decade. I have a rescue with a number of IVDD dogs. Three permanent residents of which two, Jake and Coco, are cart dogs and one, Gretchen, has the additional issues of degenerative arthritis in her shoulders and lives in a stroller. Since 2003 I have also cared for 7 (now 8) dogs with various levels of IVDD always using conservative treatment. Only one, Jake, did not recover completely. Jake is a cart dog with excellent spinal walking skills. Two of my permanent residents, Coco and Gretchen, had unsuccessful surgeries prior to being put into the rescue. The photo below is Fanny in the kennel and Gretchen on the blanket enjoying the sunshine. I see no reason why crate rest means having to give up the fun of sunny spring days in Washington. Anne  |
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jun 2, 2013 13:34:05 GMT -7
Bless your heart for caring for so many IVDD dogs. I think it must take a special person to do so.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,936
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 2, 2013 15:33:55 GMT -7
Anne, thanks for joining us here on the Forum. Sounds like your good IVDD education has caught this episode early and she has a good chance at recovery with your doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks. It's good to see you are keeping her in the middle of family activity even those outdoors!
What is the name of the anti-anxiety pill? Perhaps the quick steroids help to get the swelling down which causes pain. Nerve damage of knuckling and weakness in the legs can repair over time.
As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order.
1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails scuffing floor
4. Paws knuckle
5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down)
6. Bladder control is lost
7. Tail wagging with joy is lost
8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function
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Post by dachsiehaven on Jun 2, 2013 19:28:05 GMT -7
Fanny's anti-anxiety med is Acepromazine. Her dosage is 1/4 - 1/2 a 10mg pill every 8-24 hours. I have her on the minimum dose with good reaction. Fanny has general anxiety that is aggravated by severe separation anxiety which resulted in her ending up in the rescue and at least two failed adoption placements by her previous owner.
I see her prognosis with conservative treatment as very positive. At her post dinner pee break she was able to bear weight on her rear legs and attempted to move her legs. She is still in complete knuckle under mode but pressed back against my hand when I tapped her foot.
While she went down faster than any of my previous experiences with IVDD and showed no signs or symptoms she also seems to be making quicker progress in the positive direction. It is still going to be a very long summer.
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Post by aak & Pookie on Jun 2, 2013 19:42:55 GMT -7
I also move my dog in his crate to the outside sunshine. No reason why he can't be outside with us while the sun is shining (which isn't often here in the NW). I do believe vit D also is good for dogs as well as humans.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jun 2, 2013 20:20:20 GMT -7
Hi Anne, good to see you here. As to Fanny having no pain, my Chant went down right after we moved to Texas. We heard one loud yelp when we came in the door and she was totally down. Still had bowel and bladder control, but never seemed to be in any pain. We don't hear of it often, Did 8 weeks of strict crate rest with her and she never had another episode. She was 11 when she went down.
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Post by dachsiehaven on Jun 7, 2013 11:47:38 GMT -7
Fanny update: She is making excellent progress. She is holding herself up and taking steps at potty time without the sling. We are on harness and leash for potty and I am getting dizzy from walking in circles since she won't take even two steps away from me. It's around and around and around my feet to pee  She has been self correcting her knuckle overs. Her right side is stronger than her left but she is now correcting on both sides. She is still challenged with assuming the proper poop position without the sling but she has got her pee squat down pat all by herself and is getting back up without much trouble. The tail I am happy to say has never been affected and is still going 100mph. Crate rest has been an exercise in screeching even with the ACE. I'm trying to find a balance between high doses of meds and her bouncing off the kennel walls and breaking my ear drums if I leave her line of sight. We are starting on the taper down stage with the steroids so I hope she keeps improving. |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 7, 2013 19:56:06 GMT -7
Here's hoping the taper goes to completion with no signs of pain.. Keeping my fingers crossed for continued improvement for Fanny! Thanks for keeping us posted!!  |
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Post by dachsiehaven on Jun 10, 2013 20:23:06 GMT -7
I don't really know what I am asking here. I am now facing a dilemma I have not had to deal with to such a severe extent. I have been rigid and unbending when it comes to crate rest with all my other cases. Medicating the dogs, and myself, as needed. Unfortunately Fanny's separation anxiety has come back worse than ever. I can not leave her side without her screaming and bouncing around in the crate like a mad critter. I can live with the screaming, I have in the past with other dogs on crate rest, but the bouncing off the crate walls is concerning me. The more strength she gets back in her legs the worse the tantrums have gotten. I am worried that she will do more damage to herself and her back in the crate than out of it. My vet and I have been thru the sedatives we know work with her without side effects (Xanax, Valium and Ace). We have maxed out the dosages and she will still go into these tantrums when I she realizes I'm gone. If she is not medicated I have a minute or three from leaving the room to the beginning of a melt down. She will settle down if my husband or the puppy nanny takes her out of the crate and sets her next to them. In this case she is wearing a harness and is secured in place to the couch or chair. She will then sit quietly until I return. I am torn between my need to keep her crated and my need to keep her calm. I don't like giving into the tantrums but I also don't want her re-injuring herself in her desperation to get out and find me. We have already had one minor setback with increased back tenderness. She will vibrate like mad even when laying quietly for a long time after I am back at her side from the adrenaline rush. I am also worried about the long term effect of keeping her sedated for 8 weeks. At night I have her in a soft sided kennel between my husband's and pillow but that will not work if I am not in the bed/room.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 11, 2013 6:17:04 GMT -7
This is a tough problem to deal with - you have to balance the need for crate rest against the needs of the individual. You are right, what is the point is confining her if she just injures herself further. What about a kids wagon to put the crate on, so that you can drag it from room to room with you? (or some such fix) I really don't have any great ideas  You do know your dog best, and will out of necessity, have to invent a happy medium that works for the both of you. Keeping you in thought and prayer:) |
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Post by aak & Pookie on Jun 11, 2013 6:36:57 GMT -7
Maybe crate her and then leave her for the day so she can get used to you being gone for long periods. My dog cried the first few days and I stayed home with him but then I had to leave to go to work and just put him in his crate with his toys and blanket and left. Now he fine being in there and doesn't cry anymore. It's like training a baby to sleep in their own crib and not your bed.
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Post by dachsiehaven on Jun 11, 2013 8:30:10 GMT -7
Her crate is small enough that I can and do carry it from room to room with me that is not the problem. It is when I have places that I can't take her with me. When she can go I even pack her in the soft crate and haul her along. But I can't take her to places like dr's appointment, grocery shopping etc. (I already have a service dog with me). It is very rare time here when there is not someone at home with her.
Leaving her alone doesn't help it just makes her anxiety worse and it builds on itself. This is the main reason she ended up in the rescue in the first place. She has been left to scream her little head off for 10 plus hours in the early days of her crate rest with someone in the house to supervise her but leaving her alone in my office. It just cause regression in her security/trust training.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,936
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 11, 2013 9:41:15 GMT -7
Anne, I think you have a good solution to this trying situation of separation anxiety. The key is that you DO have two trained people who understand the need for limited back movement and will supervise eyeball to eyeball when outside the crate with a harness and leash secured to heavy furniture. While this is not optimal, as it means that person can't leave to answer the phone, go to the bathroom, answer a door knock, etc. They need to stay eyeball to eyeball with Fanny when she is out of her recovery suite at those times you need to be away from your house.
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She has been self correcting her knuckle overs. Her right side is stronger than her left but she is now correcting on both sides. She is still challenged with assuming the proper poop position without the sling but she has got her pee squat down pat all by herself and is getting back up without much trouble. The tail I am happy to say has never been affected and is still going 100mph.
You do know your dog best, and will out of necessity, have to invent a happy medium that works for the both of you. Keeping you in thought and prayer:)