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Post by doxiemum on May 23, 2013 11:14:57 GMT -7
My dog Peanut is a miniature dachshund. He will be 5 1/2 years old next month. Last year he was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and had some minor issues with his back and neck area always resolving on their own. Yesterday I had to rush him to the vet's because his back went out and he was dragging his right back leg. They put him on Tramadol 25 mg 1/2 tab every 8 hours and Methocarbamol 500 mg 1/8 tab every 8 hours and Metacam 1.5 mg/ml (give for 5 kg dose once per day). They advised 3 weeks of strict crate rest and started the first of 6 laser treatments. This morning he was worse. Left leg dragging, shivering and in pain. He ate yesterday but hasn't drank anything since the day before. Pooped and peed this morning. We can't afford the surgery so I asked what we can do. They are swapping out the Methocarbamol for Gabapentin which we have to wait to get tomorrow and will try 2 laser treatments at a time instead of one. The Vet said it's hard to care for a paralyzed dog and that he may not end up pain free. I'm so scared. I want to do everything within my means for him and I am more than willing to care for him if he becomes paralyzed.
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Post by Nancy & Polly on May 23, 2013 11:28:17 GMT -7
I'm not a moderator, but I'm sure one will be along soon.
First, and most important is crating. He needs to be crated for 8 weeks, no time out of the crate other than when you carry him outside to poop and pee. The crate acts as a cast, preventing movement as much as possible to give the disc time to heal.
He can, and will have a good quality of life. Getting the pain under control is of great importance.
Do yourself and your dog a favor and start reading. This website is full of information. Your job is to become an educated advocate for your dog. Unfortunately, not all vets are comfortable treating IVDD. You may need to find a specialist. Dodgerslist has a list of approved vets and hospitals.
As best as you can, keep your fear under control when you're around your dog. You need to be as calm and reassuring as possible. The more you read and learn the more confident you will become. Hang in there! Someone will be along soon with more specific advice.
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Post by doxiemum on May 23, 2013 11:34:57 GMT -7
Thank you. I am in New Brunswick Canada in a small city. The vet made it seem like there wasn't much hope. Not sure about specialists either. If surgery were an option for us we would have had to travel to Prince Edward Island.
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Post by doxiemum on May 23, 2013 13:30:31 GMT -7
The Dr. is recommending acupuncture to try. She said we should have seen some kind of improvement overnight from the 2 laser sessions. Is that correct? Improvement that fast?
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Post by Nancy & Polly on May 23, 2013 16:36:33 GMT -7
I'm sorry you're having to wait for help. Our moderators are busy women, and they get in here as often as their schedules allow. I'm sure it won't be long now.
From what I know, it sounds as though the pain is not being treated aggressively enough. He should be pain free dose to dose. You will need to speak up to your vet on this issue. He should also be on a stomach protector such as Pepcid when taking an NSAID like Metacam. Do run this by your vet first, of course.
I didnt use acupuncture or laser for my Polly, as she had to have immediate surgery. I can't advise you there.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that we had someone not too long ago from your neck of the woods. I'll do some searching to see if I can find her posts. You might be able to share info on vets, etc.
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Post by Nancy & Polly on May 23, 2013 16:42:04 GMT -7
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Post by Pauliana on May 23, 2013 18:32:13 GMT -7
Hi Bonnie! Welcome to Dodgerslist! Pollysmom gave you excellent advice and she is so right about pain control not being aggressive enough and the need for Pepcid AC to protect her stomach from the acid that NSAIDS cause.. Here is the best place to start. Please read all you can about IVDD so you can advocate for Peanut and know what is right and wrong involving his Vet care. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm. Be sure and tell Peanut that everything will be ok and believe it yourself because it will be! Here is some more info on laser therapy used for IVDD: veterinarypage.vetmed.ufl.edu/2011/09/19/laser-treatment-helps-dogs-with-spinal-cord-injury/Actually for conservative treatment 8 weeks of crate rest is recommended for the best recovery. It takes discs longer to heal than even a broken bone and it is the limited movement that helps to heal the disc, There have been dogs here that have recovered the ability to walk quickly, like my Tyler and others that take much longer such as Natureluva's Goosie.. Please read these links on crate rest and give your dog the gift of 8 weeks of crate rest. Peanut may not like it but it is for his own good. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm
Moderator Paula Milner has an adorable Dachsie named Clark that is paralyzed and he is such a happy dog. I don't think Paula would tell you it is difficult to care for him and he isn't in pain. I think she would tell you he is a great joy in her life. Here is one of Clark's videos! The fact that he is not eating and drinking is likely from stomach irritation from the Metacam. He needs 5mg Pepcid AC 30 minutes before the Metacam to prevent acid and also Sucralfate to coat his stomach. Please inform your Vet that she isn;t eating or drinking and you believe his stomach needs protecting. Also it is VERY important to get Peanut Pain free dose to dose. Keep in communication with the vet until you see that he is relaxing and out of pain so he can heal. Healing can't even start until pain is under control. Please keep us updated on how dear Peanut is doing..
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Post by doxiemum on May 24, 2013 3:41:32 GMT -7
Thank you for all the information. Peanut has been eating all along and had some water yesterday. I am going to the Vet's today to get some Gabapentin. Hopefully this will help his pain. I did ask about his stomach and the Vet asked if he was nauseated at all, which he isn't. She didn't presrcibe anything. His dose of Metcam is so small. Will he be ok without the Pepcid? Could I give it to him on my own? It's over the counter medicine. Is that correct? I am trying very hard to maintain some type of calm. It's so hard. I am afraid that he may lose his bladder/bowel function over the weekend. I need to know how to help him with that.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on May 24, 2013 10:46:47 GMT -7
You can get the Pepcid over the counter. It is good to be proactive in dealing with the potential stomach issues, and it will only help. Giving the metacam with food will also help.I know that it is hard to be calm when IVDD strikes, really I do. Bladder and bowel function may be lost temporarily - if that happens you can learn to express them by getting a hands on lesson with the Vet or Tech. Don't be afraid to put your foot down with the Vet with regard to pain medication or stomach protectors. You are in charge of Peanut's health care team. Read, read, read, so that you are armed with knowledge when you do see the Vet.
You can do this, and we are all here for you!! Keeping you in thought and prayer (((hugs)))
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Post by Pauliana on May 24, 2013 12:56:03 GMT -7
As Stevieluv said and very well, I might add, if there is no medical reason not to give the Pepcid AC, then I would say buy it yourself. The 10 mg version at the drug store or grocery store.. Give half a tablet which is 5 mg, 30 minutes prior to the Metacam. It is better to protect the stomach than to have to treat an ulcer or a stomach bleed. IVDD is enough for Peanut to deal with, without having to treat painful stomach problems after they take hold. Dodgerslist believes in Veterinarians that are proactive in protecting the stomach.
My Tyler was on Pepcid AC, Metacam, Tramadol and Gabapentin and his pain was well controlled. I hope the addition of Gabapentin, which works very well with Tramadol helps Peanut become pain free. IVDD is a disease that requires patience for healing but have no patience at all with pain for Peanut's sake.
Keep us posted on how Peanut is doing.. Sending healing wishes over the miles!
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Post by Nancy & Polly on May 24, 2013 19:22:45 GMT -7
It might help you to write down your concerns and questions for the vet before talking to him/her. (I need to take my own advice on this!). I find that all my organized thoughts turn into a jumble when I'm actually talking to the vet. Also, if you haven't already, write out the med instructions and schedule clearly so there is never a question. Check off the meds as you give them. There are so many things to remember when you are caring for an IVDD patient. Make it as easy as possible for yourself. You can do this!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 24, 2013 20:51:51 GMT -7
Bonnie, hang in there and read all you can…you will be Peanut's best advocate in a disease that not all vets are fully versed in. Let us know how the pain is now. It should be fully under control. If not advocate for getting methocarbamol back on board..as it addresses the pain from muscles. Gabapentin works synergistically with Tramadol…all three really help to control difficult pain. Healing just can't get underway til pain is fully in control. Please let us know you do have Pepcid AC on board and if Peanut is now drinking. Read up on the adverse side effects you monitor for with Metacam: www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htm It is definately in the cards for Peanut to get back to enjoying family life no matter the degree of healing after crate rest….IVDD is a disease you can live with….so hang in there and do the readings on our Main web page www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm so you can advocate where necessary to help Peanut through this. Let us know if Peanut can still move his left and right leg. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Both legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost as evidence by urine leaks in bedding and leaks on you when lifted. 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function I like Pollysmom's idea to write questions down before going to the vet, as that is what I do. Here is a sample med chart to help keep track of dosing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/crateRRP/medchart.pdfGive us an update on Peanut, we want to know he is in comfort and has a stomach protector, Pepcid AC on board. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not to take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. |
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Post by doxiemum on May 25, 2013 12:31:21 GMT -7
Thank you everyone for the support, advice and information. Peanut us on Gabapentin as of yesterday and it seem to be working. He has been resting comfortably and slept through the night. I asked about the Pepcid and was told to buy it but only give it if he has problems from the Metacam. I agree with everyone here not to wait until there is a problem. Prevention is key. The dosage was different than you mentioned as well giving one quarter of a tablet I believe every 12 hours. Peanut can still go potty on his own. We are scheduled fir another laser treatment on Monday and his first acupunture on Wednesday. Thanks again. You all are helping me so much.
Peanut weighs close to 11lbs. Is the half 10mg tablet the right dosage for him?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 25, 2013 15:04:10 GMT -7
Yes, 5mg of Pepcid AC (famotidine) 2x a day
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Post by doxiemum on May 25, 2013 16:26:11 GMT -7
My vet said one half hour before eating. Peanut's mealtime is 4:00pm. Is it strict that is be on a 12 hour basis or can I give him the next one first thing in the morning? Also, what do you think about my vet prescribing 1/4 tablet?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 25, 2013 21:11:34 GMT -7
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Post by doxiemum on May 26, 2013 3:30:50 GMT -7
Thank you. I thought it had to be given close to mealtime. I will give him some at 9am this morning and 9pm tonight. Peanut is not completely pain free. So I ask to have the methocarbamol back? Will the dose stay the same? Pain relief isn't lasting a full 8 hours. :-( It's so hard seeing him so sad.
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 26, 2013 3:58:30 GMT -7
Pepcid is most commonly used in humans who have food intolerances so it's used close to mealtimes. In our situation here we are using it to protect the stomach from the harsh medications used to treat IVDD so it's more important that it's in the stomach and starting to work prior to those medications being given. Easy for that to be a source of confusion.
I would absolutely ask for the methocarbamol to be restarted if he isn't comfortable.
I see you will start acupuncture this coming Wednesday? Hopefully that will be a great relief. One dog I used it on would sleep through the whole session once the needles were in!
Hang in there.
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Post by doxiemum on May 28, 2013 7:32:20 GMT -7
Hi everyone. We had a very good vet appt. today. Peanut is a bit stronger! She didn't add back the Methocarbamol but instead increased the dosage of his Tramadol and Gabapentin. If he is still a bit uncomfortable there is another pill that she said works well with his existing meds. Sorry I've forgotten the name of it. I think it starts with an "A". Acupuncture tomorrow! Peanut is sleeping peacefully right now. Today is a good day.
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 28, 2013 17:08:51 GMT -7
I'm so glad Peanut is comfortable and you've had a good day. Just remember that all medications have different methods of controlling pain...tramadol is a pain reliever, methocarbamol is a muscle relaxant. Even among pain relievers they all work differently, some work on nerve that transmit pain others work on the brain to block the ability to perceive pain. The point is if things don't seem to continue in the right direction don't be afraid to have a discussion with your vet about the medications, ask questions, voice your opinion about what seemed to bring relief in the past or what seems to clearly not give any relief when given. It's not about complaining it's about giving the vet useful information so decisions can be made that aid Peanut's recovery and keep her comfy.
I'll be anxious to hear about the acupuncture!
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Post by doxiemum on May 29, 2013 10:15:45 GMT -7
Peanut did well with the acupunture. He was very stressed with the strange place and people but the Dr. was wonderful with him. He is now on chinese herbal supplements which she said should make him more comfortable as well. The Dr. said Peanut still has a bit of feeling in his toes! Things are coming along. Next laser treatment is Friday.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 29, 2013 13:52:56 GMT -7
What are the exact hame of the chinese herbs?
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Post by doxiemum on May 30, 2013 4:18:04 GMT -7
The brand name is Jing Tang and it is a herbal dietary supplement called
Double P II
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 30, 2013 8:46:42 GMT -7
herbs are drugs just not FDA approved. So as with all drugs, we owners need to research each to know what the drug is intended to do, what the contraindications are with other meds, and the side effects we are to monitor for and what action to take there is a bad side effect. With Chinese herbs usually there are many in one tablet/bottle. So that makes the research job a bit more work. Double P II is very hard to find information on. You will want to be an integral part of making decisions and work closely with the vet you have hired. To do that takes reading and research for all meds and to understand your dog's disease. Dr. Nancy Kay, DVM, ACVIM highly recommends this kind of relationship with your vet: "Gone are the days when you simply followed your vet's orders and asked few, if any questions. The vet is now a member of your dog's health-care team, and you get to be the team captain!" www.speakingforspot.com/PDF/Medical%20Advocacy%20101.pdf |
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Post by doxiemum on Jun 1, 2013 5:58:04 GMT -7
The acupuncture worked wonders! After just one treatment Peanut has been so confortable! Not a wimper of pain since Wednesday! Hope the effects are long lasting.
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Post by doxiemum on Jul 30, 2013 11:27:12 GMT -7
Hello everyone! Peanut is at the 10 week mark as of this Wednesday. I am very happy to say that he's doing great! He is walking and getting stronger every day! I just want to thank everyone for the support and kind words. This is a wonderful site and I am spreading the word to others. Thanks again. Bonnie |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 30, 2013 11:42:05 GMT -7
So glad to hear it, Bonnie! Keep up the good work, Peanut. You've got a good mom there who did a great job on getting you back on the road to recovery.  |
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 30, 2013 14:27:56 GMT -7
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