Sammy's Harvey 5/9/2013 conservative

Welcome to Dodgerslist, Sam! Please let Harvey know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Metacam isn't a pain medicine, it is an anti inflammatory that will help to bring the swelling and inflammation down and that takes from two weeks to a month to work.. Harvey needs to be on pain medication, so contact your Vet or Emergency vet right now and get his pain under control. A disc herniation is extremely painful and Harvey can't heal until he is pain free dose to dose. 
In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions?

-- What was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)?

-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved?

-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC.  

PEPCID AC The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs.  The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms.  Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?"   If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving  doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID.  Pepcid is generally considered a safe-over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for a healthy dog and good insurance. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach.  We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order:
www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html
www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/stomachProtection.htm

-- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail due when you do some happy talk?

-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm
-- Eating and drinking OK?
-- Poops OK - normal color and firmness no dark or bright red blood?
Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.

 Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm

Thank you for rescuing Harvey! 

You didn't mention whether you and your vet discussed surgery as an option. Is this a financial possiblity for you? If so you need to pursue this immediately.

Even if surgery isn't an option I think at this point a visit with a specialist would be very beneficial to Harvey. The specialists are experts at treating IVDD with or without surgery and at this point Harvey really needs some good advice. Once pain is at this level and for this amount of time getting it under control can be difficult, he needs a vet who will be very aggressive at pain management. He needs an awesome IVDD knowledgeable vet right now to get things stabalized and moving in the right direction so he can begin to heal.

I'd really advocate you contact your vet asap and ask for a referral to a specialist. Remember that you are Harvey's voice and you have a right and a responsibility to request and even demand the best of care for him.

Ask your vet for a number that you can contact him day or night. If that's not an option ask what you do if you have another night like last night...emergency clinic or what? Harvey should not spend another day or night like he did last night and you need to know who you contact to get him medications, especially since this is the weekend.

Don't forget that even though surgery isn't a consideration specialists are the best at medication and pain management. Harvey needs his pain to be significantly reduced in the next hour or two. If not you need to contact your vet for further recommendations. If your vet is reluctant then ask for a referral to a specialist. With pain as severe as Harvey's at this point it would not be unexpected that Tramadol alone will not be enough, a muscle relaxant would be one medication that would be commonly prescribed. I hope that he gets some relief but keep an eye on things and be aggressive about voicing his needs.

I appreciate all the advice I have been given and am trying my hardest to get Harvey the help he needs...i knew NOTHING of this before friday morning...the pain meds seem to be helping some. He's more relaxed in his crate (not trembling) still has bladder/bowel control. (Vet checked and bladder was empty as he had urinated in crate over night) Used the sling method for pottying and he had a bm. Had a small meal with pain meds but is not interested in water. He continues to sit up in a hunche position but I have a pillow behind him that he's able to lean on. Idk what more we can do other than let him rest and continue with the treatments we are able to afford.

The specialist in our area is extremely expensive and the vet we are seeing is not only treating Harvey but others with the same issue. He's confident what he's doing will help and has been working with us to try and get him comfortable. We are doing what we can financially. We are at our means with the meds and laser treatments daily for the next week. I don't want to be attacked or made to feel bad because I can't do more. I wish I could.

I appreciate all the support and help and hope that we will get through this! It didn't come off attacking but I'm worried people will look down on me for not doing more when I am stressing and worried and scared and trying so hard. It's been a stressful last 48 hrs, trying to have our 5 yr olds bday and he doesn't understand why we are upset or why Harvey his buddy is sick so much money spent and it was seeming to no good. BUT a small step forward! Harvey is now comfortable LAYING down in his crate SLEEPING! Which he hasn't done in over a day (nor have I or my husband !) hoping this comfort continues with the pain meds prescribed. Again all the support is appreciated!

Any ideas on how to promote him to drink some water? He hasn't had much today.

As others have said, no one here will judge you for not doing enough. In my post I wanted to emphasize the need to be the advocate for your dog as some vets just aren't as aggressive as others and you must take the reigns, become knowledgable and then become assertive.

I am so glad that Harvey is comfortable. Honestly I expected that to be a more difficult battle given how uncomfortable he seemed.

I'm sure your vet is doing the best he can, many vets just don't see this condition often...perhaps the fact that he's treating several dogs now is not the norm for his practice. And sometimes those who do are forced to treat by a bit of trial and error if they just aren't familiar with what current standard treatments are. If you think about it a human doctor not only treats one species but they readily refer to a specialist if they are unsure of what to do. Vets treat countless species and can't as readily refer to specialists as many owners are reluctant or unable to spend the money. It's quite a complicated job they have. If you have information it's ok to discuss it with your vet.

If he's eating he'll likely drink on his own as well. My dogs probably only take a drink a few times a day. Dogs during an IVDD episode stop eating and drinking for basically two reasons either pain or stomach upset from the meds. Now that he's comfortable his body will tell him when he needs hydration. Keep an eye on him. You can absolutely try the suggestions above, none of them are wrong.

I'm glad he's feeling better...and therfore you are too.

It's impossible to know all the answers about everything, so please relax and know that you are among friends who are struggling as much as you are. We've dealt with so many medical issues with the many dogs we've rescued over the years, but this is the first time we've faced a disc issue with one of our Rotties. We've gone through most of the fears that you have and the people on this site are awesome. We, too, live in an area where the vet specialists are so expensive that we chose the conservative route because we can't easily afford their huge bills. Keep your chin up and know that you're not alone. Jude 

It's been another up and down day for our family. Harvey hates his crate. Cried all night but not from pain he wanted to be in the bed with us like normal. We tried laying next to the crate which helped some but he whined even still. He's no longer trembling or yelping but he still doesn't always seem to be able to get comfy. Tramadol seems to be helping but im going to ask about somethjng more at his laser treatment tomorrow. This morning he laid down and slept from 9:00a-4pm because we took the top portion off of his crate an set it next to us in the living room. It was a great success! Pottying this afternoon was difficult. He's trying so hard to not go in his crate that when we get ready to take him out he starts fussing around and won't calm down. He's urinating/ defecating, and eating and drinking normally. We are trying something tonight. I have the crate on the bed. It's stable and he's laying down now. Hopefully we have a somewhat quiet night and both myself and Harvey will be able to get some sleep. I have slept about 4 hrs since this all began on Friday morning. Im exhausted and dreading work tomorrow because I know Harvey is all ill be thinking about! My husband and i are overwhelmed and hoping things will get easier.

I noticed this afternoon some fresh red bloodstains (not black or in the stool) on the puppy pad Harvey was siting on... I wiped his bottom after he went (also a little blood when i wiped) and noticed he might be getting hemmiroids. Is this common? And what can I do because they seem to make him uncomfortable (as they would anyone!)

Again I appreciate all the support, hope, and info. It's just so much to ingest. My baby went from a happy go lucky energetic little guy one day to unable to walk the next.

A mostly up day for Harvey!! FINALLY! he seems to be comfy (and the hubs and in have relaxed a tad and bth got some much needed shut eye!) Had his 3rd laser treatment today. He is currently taking 75 mg of tramadol every 8-12hrs, 250mg methocarbamol tid, 20 lb dog dose of meloxicam (not sure specific mls since the dropper just has lb markings) and 10 mg Pepcid once a day. He's been sleeping an laying down in his crate. Didn't eat his breakfast but has been drinking normally and ate his dinner. I feel better because he feels better. Hoping we keep making progress! Thanks for all the support and well wishes. It's gonna be a long rd and I'm glad I found dodgerslist to get through!

If Harvey continues to struggle with the crate there are herbal calming remedies at most pet supply stores. Benadryl is also safe for dogs but you should consult your vet for safe dosing. Worse case scenario vets will even prescribe calming agents or relaxers for dogs that are really struggling.

I had one that just chilled and took it in stride. The other was a totally different dude, oh my did he hate the crate!!! I took it for a few days and babied him and then realized I couldn't do that for 8 weeks. So I got tough...on the outside anyway. When he was quiet he got praise and attention. If he was squeaking and squaking I totally ignored him, I didn't scold him or look at him or anything because for him even that was attention. It took a few days but I could see a gradual change and ultimately he learned. He never tolerated it quite like the other dog but he sure made a huge change and things life was extremely tolerable for the reaminder of the crate rest period.

Hi Sammy,

The Diarrhea could be from the change in food from what he was used to or it could be from stomach irritations due to the Metacam.. It would be a good idea to ask the vet to prescibe sucralfate to coat his stomach. It would act as a band-aid on irritated areas in the stomach. It is usally given an hour before food on an empty stomach.. Pepcid AC is a wonderful preventative but some dogs need the extra help of Sucralfate.  Did you see any blood in the diarrhea or was it dark/ tarry looking? 

Harvey is leaking urine because he is losing bladder control due to IVDD. Here is a link that explains how to express him as well as a video to show you how. If you can have a Vet tech give you a hands on lesson.  It takes practice but once you get the hang of it, if he is emptied fully he won't have so many accidents. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

It is exhausting I much agree with you.. I don't think I slept a wink the first week and there is lots of worry and stress.. I totally sympathize with you.