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Post by sydneysmommy on May 4, 2013 16:34:43 GMT -7
Hi everyone. I'm new to this site but unfortunately not new to IVDD. My 7 year old doxie Sydney had disc surgery on her back in October of 2010. She recovered beautifully; however, last June she had to have another disc surgery done on her neck. She came through that surgery just great and is quite the little fighter. Back on March 30th of this year, she started having pain in her neck again. She has been on a full month of crate rest, steroids, pain meds and muscle relaxers. The month has been nothing short of a roller coaster ride for her. One day she seems to be perky and feeling better but then she's back to hardly moving for a few days. When this episode started she would cry out in pain but hasn't done so in quite a while. We tried tapering her down off of her meds (the steroids) but she wasn't ready for that. She is up to morning and evening doses of Prednisone and 3 doses of pain meds and muscle relaxers per day. She hasn't acted like she has felt well at all for the past few days. She eats, drinks, does her yardly business and wags her tail for us. She hates being confined to the crate while her 2 brothers are out but I know you have to practice tough love with her condition. I have been in constant contact with the vet giving frequent updates. He mentioned something about acupuncture. My question is - has anyone here ever used acupuncture to treat a cervical disc? We are so worried as it has already been over 4 weeks and it doesn't seem like she is getting any better. We cannot afford to put her through a 3rd surgery and I'm not so sure that it would be fair to make her go through another one. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
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Post by Pauliana on May 4, 2013 18:36:58 GMT -7
Hi Nancy! Welcome to Dodgerslist! I am so sorry to hear that Sydney is having such a rough time. She really is quite the IVDD veteran and so are you. We highly recommend acupuncture and laser light therapy as complementary treatments for IVDD. They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of relaxing the dog. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ -- What was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html-- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail due when you do some happy talk? -- Poops OK - normal color and firmness no dark or bright red blood? Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 5, 2013 9:32:35 GMT -7
I'm sorry to hear Sydney is having so many repeat disc episodes. In addition to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks are you also doing the extra things for a neck disc mentioned here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmHas your STRICT rest 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 been: No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the neck and back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. We look forward to the answers to the questions Paulina asked. How many tapers off of Pred have been tried so far? |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on May 5, 2013 10:13:59 GMT -7
Hi Nancy, Accupuncture is always a good bet, even when started later on in treatment, so is laser therapy. Keeping you in thought and prayer  |
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Post by sydneysmommy on May 24, 2013 14:52:07 GMT -7
Hello everyone. It's been a hectic few weeks so I haven't gotten a chance to reply. Sydney is on 5 mg. of Prednisone twice a day, 100 mg. of Gabapentin once a day, 1/2 tab of Robaxin in the morning and evening along with 1/4 tablet mid-day. She is also taking 1 tablet of Tramadol in the morning and evening along with 1/2 tablet mid-day. She is also taking a cervical Chinese herb pill twice a day. Our regular vet has referred us to the acupuncture vet. Sydney just went through her 3rd acupuncture and cold laser therapy treatment yesterday. She has responded well to each treatment but after around 5 days she shows signs of pain again. Before her 2nd treatment we weren't sure whether or not it was working but the vet said she thought it was too early to make a decision. We're still trying to hold onto hope for our girl.
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Post by Pauliana on May 24, 2013 15:22:21 GMT -7
Hi Nancy, Sorry to hear that Sydney is in pain again, it is best to contact the vet and have some adjustments made to the medications to make sure she is pain free.. Has she been on 24/7 crate rest? Remember it is lack of movement that heals the disc..and neck discs are very painful because the head moves every time she moves.. Have you tried these tips in the cervical literature link that Paula gave you? Here it is again just in case. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmWhat is the name of the Chinese cervical herb? |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 24, 2013 19:34:38 GMT -7
Does the pain surface nearing the next doses of the pain meds? Discuss with the vet about giving Gabapentin 3x a day to give better coverage and what the dose would be. Also discuss if you can give a more aggressive dose of Tramadol 3x or more a day. Also discuss if using a stronger steroid such as Dexamethasone would be feasible, since it is has been a long time on prednisone and the swelling is still not yet down. ![]() Do you have a stomach protector on board…Pepcid AC (famotidine)? 5mg 30 mins before the pred dose? Chinese herb formulas contain many herbs in the one tablet. It would be a good idea to research each as Sydney's double checker same as you would do for any med she is on…for contraindication with other meds, side effects, etc. Do let us know the exact name of the herb and the contents if listed on the bottle. How much does Sydney weigh? My heart goes out to you and commend you for all the therapies you are trying. A neck disc can be tough. Let us know you are trying all the extra things in that link Pauliana gave to do for a cervical disc episode. |
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Post by sydneysmommy on May 25, 2013 18:21:30 GMT -7
The label on the Chinese herb just says "cervical formula", so I'm not sure exactly what the name is. Sydney weighs a little over 13 pounds. We've spoken to both our regular vet and the vet who is performing the acupuncture about the meds not controlling her pain but both have said that she is on the maximum allowable dosage for all of them. It looks like this last acupuncture treatment has done nothing as she has been in fairly bad pain ever since. My husband and I agree that it's just not fair to her to keep her in this much pain. I am going to call our regular vet on Tuesday and ask him about the recommendations you all have mentioned. This is just so heartbreaking.
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 25, 2013 19:02:00 GMT -7
As others have said cervical discs are hard. I had a dog with a lumbar issue and one with a cervical and the difference was dramatic. One thing you might ask the vet about is different meds for the pain. Often the "routine" meds just don't work because just like humans you can get a dog with a system that just processes things oddly and something a little different needs to be tried. Also sometimes an IV dose of pain med to get the pain under control helps. Once the pain is under good control the oral pain meds do a better job of keeping it at bay. Just another idea to discuss with the vet. I have pads like this in my dogs crates and the one with the cervical disc episode used it a lot to rest his chin on. www.petco.com/product/119334/Petco-Blue-Fleece-Bolster-Mat-for-Dogs.aspx?CoreCat=LookAheadKeeping you in my thoughts. |
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Post by sydneysmommy on Jun 3, 2013 10:34:43 GMT -7
An update on Sydney:
My husband and I have decided to discontinue acupuncture as it just doesn't seem to be controlling Sydney's pain very well. I spoke with our regular vet last Wednesday and he said that we could increase her ▲Gabapentin to twice a day and also give her a whole ▲Tramadol mid-day instead of 1/2. She has done quite well since we've increased the meds. We've even tapered her down very slowly on her ▼Prednisone by 1/2 tablet to see how she tolerates that. We've noticed that her pain always seems to reappear after she eats. We have softened her kibble to help but I think the affected disk is bulging into her airway. We've tried to slow her down while she eats but she is a little pig when it comes to food!!
The vet has said that when her bad days outnumber the good ones is when we will know that it's time to let her go. She doesn't have entire bad or good days. She seems fine most of the time but when she hurts, she HURTS. This is one of the hardest things I've ever gone through but I'm giving her nothing but the love and attention she deserves. She is so special to all of us. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 3, 2013 19:07:34 GMT -7
Nancy, can you make an appointment with a different vet to get a 2nd opinion. The disc can't bulge into her airway…here is where the disc bulges into:
It takes staying at the anti-inflammatory level dose for some dogs quite some time even more than a month. It is not clear if all this time she has been at the anti-inflammatory dose level of 5mg Pred 2x a day or has she been tapered to less for lengths of time.
Did you discuss with the vet about using a stronger steroid… dexamethasone to see if that would help to get the swelling down? As far as I can see your vet has also never given the max of pain med dose that are possible…. Tramadol, gabapentin and methocarbamol could be given 3 x a day with the proper dose in mg. by Sydney's weight.
Also you have never confirmed that Sydney's stomach is being protected by Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mg 2x a day.
So there is good reason to seek a 2nd opinion and perhaps a more aggressive approach with a stronger steroid, aggressive pain meds and getting the stomach protected.
Laser therapy works a bit differently, and may be useful for Sydney… is that something offered in your area and in your budget?
All this time have you been conscientious and committed to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times?
Food and water bowls attached at head height.
Is the create raised up on a table so there is no need for Sydney to raise her head to look at you or watch the world from her crate.
Rather than letting your mind go to the dark side of "letting her go" think of the positive things you can do… 2nd opinion vet!!
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Post by sydneysmommy on Jun 4, 2013 11:08:13 GMT -7
First, I would like to say that going to the dark side is the LAST thing I want to do. However, I cannot stand to see an animal in pain and I have to consider the quality of life as a factor. Since March 30th, Sydney has been on 100% crate rest, 5mg. of Prednisone twice a day, 1/2 tablet of Robaxin in the morning and evening with 1/4 tablet mid-day, 1 tablet of Tramadol morning, mid-day and at night, and 1 capsule of Gabapentin in the morning which has just been upped to another capsule at night. There has been no mention of giving her Pepcid A/C. We've been through 2 vets along with acupuncture and cold laser therapy. Food and water bowls have been adjusted. We have tried to taper her down off of the Prednisone but her pain goes back up. I will be speaking with our vet again this week to see about other options for steroids.
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 4, 2013 20:30:23 GMT -7
Hi Nancy,
I am so sorry that you and Sydney are having such a rough time. It is devastating seeing a much loved pet go through this..I was just as upset when it happened to my Tyler. Once we got his pain under control,life got much better.. We made it through crate rest to graduation and he is such a happy and playful dog now.. This can happen for Sydney too!
Once she is pain free her quality of life will improve dramatically. As Paula said she needs more aggressive pain medication. The Gabapentin for example can be given 3 times a day. Sometimes Pain medications have to be adjusted several times before they are right and with this being a neck disc it is even more necessary because the pain is more intense. It's not time yet to taper the steroid because her inflammation is still present. Once she has had another course of the new steroid and begins the taper again, if she shows no sign of pain then the inflammation is gone and her her pain will be too. Perhaps a change of steroids will make that happen.
Some Vets are not proactive when it comes to protecting the stomach of a dog on Steroids, they prefer to wait until the dog has a stomach problem, and then they treat it.. Dodgerslist believes in Vet's that take the proactive approach and prevent stomach problems before they happen.
Steroids cause an excess of stomach acid and your sweet Sydney has enough going on without having an ulcer or life threatening perforated stomach lining..It is much better to prevent problems before they start. : ) My Tyler's Neuro Vet at Purdue University Vet teaching hospital told me that IVDD dogs are predisposed to acid problems and Steroids, while necessary, make the acid problem much worse so they always send their IVDD patients home with Pepcid AC (generic Famotidine)
Sending healing and comforting thoughts your way.
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Post by sydneysmommy on Jun 10, 2013 13:50:16 GMT -7
Thanks so much, Pauliana! Sydney has been doing very well the past few days, even after we've slowly reduced her steroid dose down. I think giving her the Gabapentin twice a day has made a big difference as well.
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 10, 2013 17:57:59 GMT -7
Very glad to hear that, Nancy! Keep on getting better Sydney!! We are pulling for you!  |
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Post by sydneysmommy on Jul 3, 2013 18:07:57 GMT -7
It has taken me some time to write about Sydney. She had gotten to where the medications and alternative treatments were not effective. We made the excruciating decision to let her go to the Rainbow Bridge on June 18, 2013. Our hearts are broken.
The vet reviewed her chart for all of the things we'd tried. He said we had gone above and beyond in order to try to save her. When she had her cervical surgery in June of 2012, the surgeon said it was possible that another episode would occur. Our vet repeated this to us and that if we had chosen another surgery this time, most likely we'd be in this position again.
To all of you who offered information and help, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. My brother has a neighbor with a doxie. He said she is yelping from back pain. I IMMEDIATELY referred him to this website and couldn't stress enough about the importance of STRICT crate rest and limited movement. I hope that the neighbor will utilize the wonderful resource of the information and people on dodgerslist.
Wishing you all the best,
Nancy
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lisah
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by lisah on Jul 3, 2013 18:36:49 GMT -7
So sorry for your loss Nancy..i too just had to make the heartwrenching decision myself a few days ago with my sweet doxie Coco..God bless..
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 3, 2013 19:35:21 GMT -7
I am so sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 3, 2013 20:31:25 GMT -7
I am so sad for you and to hear this Nancy. May she rest in comfort on rainbow bridge.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 4, 2013 8:48:43 GMT -7
Nancy I am so sorry for your loss. You and Sydney put up a brave fight, now it is time to rest. You will meet again at the Bridge (((Hugs)))
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 4, 2013 14:10:47 GMT -7
So sorry for your loss Nancy. Take comfort knowing that Sydney is pain free running on the rainbow bridge.
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