sandib
New Member
Scooter has passed away.
Posts: 5 
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Post by sandib on Apr 29, 2013 17:42:41 GMT -7
Scooter is a 6 year old Male Yorkie, He takes meds for seizures (Phenobarbital), and recently has been diagnosed with a pinched nerve in the last disk by his tail. He has also knee problems in both back legs. His vet started him on Rimadyl for the first two weeks, after no results and he began having problems standing (to wobblie) and began to loose function of his back left leg. After two weeks the vet began Scooter on Vetalog [steroid] and as needed Rimadyl [NSAID]. Three weeks later Scooter began to loose function in both his legs and would not stay in a crate for rest. To help Scooter get around we purchased a doggie wheel chair, he uses it some, but today he is fighting off an upper respiratory infection, with Albon twice a day. Scooter is very restless and wants to be beside his mom will not rest in a crate except while she is at work. Today the vet gave Scooter some Acepromazine to help him relax to get the rest his needs. We have also started Scooter on Assisi Loop, on 4/20/13, he began the treatments 3 to 4 times a day. As of today we have not seen any improvement with Scooter trying to use his back legs. The vet says he seems like he is not in any pain and he has a good appetite and drinks plenty of water. When bathroom breaks are needed he is carried outside and his hindquarters is being supported to keep from falling. He does have problems with constipation and other means are being used to take care of that problem. I really could use some help, Scooter is a very loving good little boy. My husband and I have lost one dog already to a terrible back problem and would love to give Scooter every chance in the world to lead a happy and longer life.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 29, 2013 18:18:08 GMT -7
Hi Sandi, welcome to Dodger's List. We're glad you found us. I am very concerned that your vet has given a steroid and Rimadyl at the same time, as that combination is highly toxic. In addition, you did not indicate that Scooter is taking a stomach protectant such as Pepcid AC to protect him from the excess acid produced by the steroid. A steroid and NSAID should never be given together because it can cause internal bleeding, ulceration, and stomach perforation: "NSAIDS should not be used in conjunction with corticosteroid hormones such as prednisone: www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=622&S=0&EVetID=0" Please call your vet asap and ask that Scooter be on either the vetalog OR the Rimadyl, but never both. Also, ask if you can give 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 minutes before each dose of vetalog OR Rimadyl, and ask for the stomach coater, Sucralfate. Have you noticed any blood in Scooter's poop? How is his appetite? Secondly, conservative (non-surgical) treatment of IVDD (spinal disc disease) consists of 8 weeks of strict crate rest, plus meds to mask the symptoms. It is time and limited movement of the spine that heals the disc. Discs take longer to heal than even bones, so 8 weeks of limited movement is necessary. The dog should be crated 24/7 except for potty breaks when you will carry him to and from the potty spot and support his rear with a sling to help him stand. Please read these three links on conservative treatment and crate rest: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htm What exactly is "Assisi Loop"? For constipation, try mixing in 1 teaspoon of plain, canned packed pumpkin to his breakfast along with some water. If you are not already getting it, we highly recommend acupuncture and laser light therapy for IVDD (but NEVER chiropractic). They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of relaxing the dog. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ The best way for you to help Scooter is by learning about his disease. Here is a brief tutorial on IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/index.html . If a dvd is more your style, we have an excellent one available for only $3 including shipping. It's great to have on hand to show to family/friends/petsitters so they will know what they can and cannot do with your dog and how they can help: www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm We look forward to hearing more about Scooter. Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,610
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 29, 2013 18:28:28 GMT -7
Sandi welcome to Dodgerslist. What can make a great deal of difference for Scooter is your own self education. Knowledge is the best defense in fighting and winning with this disease. Reading others posts on this forum can be of comfort. But the meat of what you need to know is on our main web page. A very quick way to get up to speed on meds, how healing happens and when for each of the phases is the "Overview: the essentials" yellow button. Then work your way through the rest of the orange and blue buttons to complete your education. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmIn order to get things right for Scooter asap, I want to point out these areas of concern: 1. I second what Lisa mentioned: Your vet is prescribing a very dangerous combo of meds steroids and NSAID together. This shows your vet is not comfortable in dealing with a disc episode making it essential for you to be IVDD knowledgable. STOP the Rimadyl. What is the last date you gave both the NSAID Rimadyl and the steroid Vetalog? Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not to take Pepcid AC (famotidine)?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Read up on Rimadyl as well as all other meds Scooter is on…. This is my go to web page for reading: www.marvistavet.com/html/rimadyl.html2. If need be Scooter needs to be drugged but he must stay in his recovery suite to avoid worsening neuro functions and prolonging pain. The disc only heals with limited movement. The recovery suite needs to be only enough space to turn around, fully stretch out his legs when lying down. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks means …. no wheelchaire, no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The recovery suite is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe from other pets and kids from bothering them. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequency given? What date did Vetalog start, has there then a reduction in dose, what date, what mg/frequency? What is given for constipation? -- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail if you do some happy talk to him? -- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood? Disc disease is not a death sentence… it is a disease that can be lived with. Hang in there, let us know his stomach is in saftey with Pepcid AC on board. We look forward to learning more about Scooter with your answers to our questions. |
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sandib
New Member
Scooter has passed away.
Posts: 5
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Post by sandib on Apr 30, 2013 18:21:08 GMT -7
Thank you Lisa and Paula for all your advise. Scooter is currently only taking Vetalog 0.5 (1 pill a day) and no more of the Rimadyl. He is taking Phenobarbital 16.2 1/2 tab every other day. he has developed a little chest congestion and is taking Albon twice a day. I did ask my vet for a light sedation for Scooter to help him rest while I'm home to keep him from moving around so much in his crate. The vet gave me Acepromazine 10 mg and told me to use 1/2 a pill once or up to twice a day. To see how Scooter would be I only gave him a 1/4 a pill around 5 pm within a hr or so he began to relax. The following morning around 6 am, before leaving for work I tried to see if he need to go outside he was still so groggy he could not hardly stay awake to go outside. This really scared me with his behavior so I had my mom check on him through out the morning, around 11 am he finally began to come out of it. I don't think sedation will be used again. My sister n law said that Virgin Olive oil in his food is more natural product to use to help him from being constipated. Plus my vet had gave us a enema to use if he does not have any bowl movements (which does work instantly)! I have not seen any dark colored stools. He has a very healthy appetite and I make sure he drinks water to help keep his kidneys flushed (when he was about 2 yrs. he had kidney problems) He now up to today drinks only distilled water. He eats Science Diet KD prescription dog food no dry food since he wont chew and just swallows and gets choked. When he takes his meds I never give any of them at the same time. He has a timer feeder, that I will mix small amounts of food with his meds if he needs meds for that day. He is given his Albon congestion meds in the early morning 5am ( I leave for work early)and 5 pm evening. He receives his PB in mid morning around 10am and mid day around 2 he will receive his Vetalog. I set up his timers it is a two bowl timer so he receives his meds while I'm gone at work. This works very well. The Assisi Loop I had mentioned my sister n law purchased through her vet in Ca for Scooter It is a non drug anti flammatory & pain Man. Therapy. He receives 3 treatments a day weekends 4 to 6 while he is laying,I will lay the ring over his bad area on his back it will deliver pulsed electromagnetic therapy for 15 minutes. This really relaxes Scooter. If you will go to www.assisianimalhealth.com this will help you know more information on it. I will be asking my vet about checking his post bile acid to make sure his liver is ok since he is on PB and if he needs to have Pepcid AC. I am learning lots of information and I really appreciate all of your help. This website and all your help is true Blessing to us all. Thank you! |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 30, 2013 21:36:54 GMT -7
Sandi, Please don't give Scooter the enema. It would cause him to move too much and he needs to keep his back still to avoid further injury to his disc and spine. Let us know what your Vet has to say about Pepcid AC to protect Scooter's stomach. Very Important, he doesn't need a stomach bleed on top of all he is going through. dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/stomachProtection.htmSending healing wishes to Scooter.. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on May 1, 2013 8:33:55 GMT -7
Hi Sandi,
My little girl Stevie has epilepsy too! Adding canned pumpkin (not the pie filling- just straight pumpkin) to his food will help with constipation, and most dogs love it, though the orange poop does look a bit weird. The wheelchair will be great for Scooter's rehab when he is through with his 8 weeks of cage rest, but put it away for now- we had one for Stevie's rehab too, and will be using it again when she gets through this latest episode in 7 weeks or so. there are lots of helpful people here and a wealth of great info. Remember that all Vets are not up to date on IVDD treatment and we have to light the way. Keeping you in thought and prayer.
Hi again Watch out for Tramadol as a medication for pain - this is one that can lower the threshold for seizures. Stevie did have to use it for a bit and it did increase her seizure activity (insert bad language here) so it has been discontinued. Tramadol is great for pain management, but does have that unfortunate potential for those with epilepsy - so you have to weigh the cost vs the benefits.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,610
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2013 10:31:09 GMT -7
I agree with Stevieluv, that pumpkin is a better idea than olive oil. Oil can cause diarrhea, making it confusing as to the cause of loose stools and the proper action to take when using steroids. Enemas are too dangerous with a dog under conservative treatment.
Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.
Let us know you have the very important stomach protector on board… Pepcid AC (famotidine)
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sandib
New Member
Scooter has passed away.
Posts: 5
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Post by sandib on May 5, 2013 19:18:56 GMT -7
This week Scooter has lost his ability to hold his bladder and control his bowl movements. He has been resting alot better once we figured out that Vetalog I guess gives him hot flashes? I set a fan by him and he will rest! Does this mean he is getting worse or is it part of the heeling process they go through while trying to recover from nerve damage. I have noticed his legs is lifeless, like he has no muscles in his legs.
Every so often I do get a happy tail greeting, but it is a sign as well he needs to go out and poop.
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Post by Pauliana on May 5, 2013 19:54:34 GMT -7
Hi Sandi, The fact that Scooter has lost bladder and bowel control means that the disc has herniated and is compressing the spine. This link has a video that shows what happened. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm REGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. Acupuncture and Laser Therapy stimulate the cell’s metabolism that leads to the body’s natural repair abilities and can be started at any time. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm |
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Post by Linda Stowe on May 5, 2013 20:22:09 GMT -7
Hi Sandi, I'm sorry to hear that Scooter has now lost bowel and bladder control. In addition to what Pauliana has said, I'd like to ask if you are now expressing his bladder? Is Scooter in any pain now?
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Post by Pauliana on May 6, 2013 7:39:15 GMT -7
Sandi, Please have your Vet or Vet tech teach you how to express Scooter right away. This is something that can't wait. lease read this link, it has excellent tips on how to help Scooter urinate. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm |
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sandib
New Member
Scooter has passed away.
Posts: 5
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Post by sandib on May 18, 2013 16:59:40 GMT -7
Thank you all for your advise and helping me learn more how to care for Scooter while he was still here with me.
I had to make the hardest decision Wed morning when Scooter all of a sudden turned for the worst, it happened so fast I was not sure what was going on, One minute he was in his stroller just finished eating, then I walked across the room and came back to find him not able to hardly hold his head up and he could not use his front legs.
After about 30 minutes or less he began having seizors every 15 minutes, when we rushed him into the vet his heart was having problems. We had to put little Scooter down at that time. I think he kinda went half way on his own.
Scooter he was my little baby and is being missed very much.
This will be my last post on this website.
I just wanted to tell all you Thank you or your support.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,610
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Post by PaulaM on May 18, 2013 19:54:17 GMT -7
Sandi, I am so very sorry to hear about Scooter and how painful it is to not have him with you. While his body is not here, his spirit will always be with you in your warm and loving heart.
"There is no death, only a change of worlds." -Chief Seattle.
My warmest ((hugs)) and sincere condolences to you.
Godspeed sweet Scooter.
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Post by Nancy & Polly on May 18, 2013 20:43:44 GMT -7
I am so sorry for your loss.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on May 19, 2013 8:24:52 GMT -7
I am so sorry for your loss. Scooter is running fast and pain free and you will see him again at the Bridge (((hugs)))
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