StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 28, 2013 18:44:40 GMT -7
Friday morning Stevie was acting stiff and unwilling to move. She was trembling, had a tight tummy, reacted in pain to being picked up, and had a very tender area on her spine where the last problem happened. I rushed her to the Vet ( a fill in, who wanted to take a wait and see approach) I can be a very aggressive old bag when I have to be - we left with prednisone 5mg twice a day for 5 days, then once a day for 5 days, then once every other day for 5 treatments. Also with Tramadol 25mg every 12 hours. We also have something to protect her gi tract. I had to be away for the weekend so my Husband was giving the meds, maintaining strict cage rest and taking her out to potty with her sling. The problem with Tramadol is that it can lower the threshold for seizures and she had one at 4am. So now no more Tramadol unless absolutely necessary ( discomfort is bad but seizures sure don't do her spine any good either)... I am so sad for her, she is such a brave, good girl and puts up with all of this so well. Please keep Stevie in your thoughts and prayers - the power of love and prayer is an awesome thing, Thanks, Maureen and Stevie.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 28, 2013 18:59:35 GMT -7
Hi Maureen,
I am so sorry to hear Stevie is having a relapse..
Is Stevie on medication for her Epilepsy? Gabapentin is an anti seizure drug and also is excellent for hard to control pain.. If she isn't already taking this for her seizures, I would recommend asking the vet if she could take this instead of Tramadol. I know from personal experience that it works great for pain.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 28, 2013 19:37:30 GMT -7
Stevie is on phenobarbitol. She actually went 10 weeks without a seizure, from the day she was paralysed until the 6th of April. then she had one on the 12th and another on the 17th. The Vet upped her dosage, and we discontinued the electro part of the accupuncture (some research I did suggests that it can aggraveate both heart conditions and epilepsy) She hadn't had a seizure for 11 days, but my husband said that she had one early this morning (I was away this weekend)so we will discontinue the Tramadol and watch her carefully for signs of discomfort. Her spirits are good and she appears to be pain free right now, She can stand, but we only let her out of her crate to potty.
Does anyone have any experience or opinion about how long we need to keep her confined?? The one vet didn't seem to think that we really needed to do that "just keep her quiet and let's see how she does' I wasn't willing to risk that, so we got her the prednisone and tramadol and crated her fuzzy little butt. Just wondering if we have the entire 8 weeks again...
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 28, 2013 20:42:05 GMT -7
Hi Maureen, It's important to continue with the crate rest for 8 weeks to make sure she doesn't further injure her spine and discs.. You are doing the right thing! Vet's that aren't experienced with IVDD don't know the importance of crate rest and you were quite right to to strongly advocate for the right medications for Stevie. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmIs Stevie on Pepcid AC to protect her tummy, if not what is the name and dosage of the one she is on? Healing prayers over the miles!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 29, 2013 8:12:48 GMT -7
Maureen, I am sorry to hear Stevie is having another disc episode. The hope with this disease is that there would be only one in a life time. Many dogs however, do have several disc episodes, it could be another disc or the same one…there just is no way to tell without advanced imaging. Your knowledge to get prompt vet help and crate is what helps to keep the mild symptoms mild and not progressing to diminishment of neuro functions. Self education is so important with this disease to know when to ignore harmful advise… and stick with what is known to work with a disc episode. Kudos to you!!
Because discs are avascular they take more time than a broken bone with good blood supply takes to heal. A broken bone stays in a cast for 6 weeks to mend. A painful disc episode can start with tiny little cracks on the exterior of the disc causing a bulge into the spinal cord canal. Or the disc episode can progress to a full tear where the insides of the disc escape to pressure the spinal cord with severe nerve damage. While the disc is healing, trying to form scar tissue, that weak tissue can be disrupted by movement of the back causing a relapse. This is why 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks is critical.
With Stevie's additional health issue of epilepsy, I hope prednisone alone will act fast enough to get the swelling down. As Pauliani suggested, do discuss if neurontin or methocarbamol would be options for pain relief in Stevie's case if you begin to see signs of pain.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 29, 2013 13:13:25 GMT -7
I tried to post but it wouldn't 'take'... Stevie seems to be pain free, the steriods are helping, I have discontinued her Tramadol - she has had two seizures in the past day. I want to scream and cuss (like that would help). She is being such a good girl with all of this. she has a laser appointment and talk with her Vet this afternoon, and an accupuncture visit tomorrow with her other Vet. This so totally sucks!!! Poor baby girl
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 29, 2013 16:00:53 GMT -7
Maureen, I'm traveling but wanted to tell you how sorry I am about Stevie. She is a very brave and strong girl and will pull through this again.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 29, 2013 16:28:26 GMT -7
We just got back from her laser appointment. Her Vet is pleased by how she is doing and that we were right on top of it Stevie's prednisone is now changed to 5mg twice a day for 3 days (already done) and once a day for 2 days, then once every other day until gone, this will extend the length of time that she is taking it ( we have 20 tablets) She also has Sulcrate suspension 3mL every 12 hours for gi tract protection, and Buprenorphine 0.3mL every 8-12 hours for pain as needed. The Tramadol did work well but she was having seizures again with its' regular use. thanks for all of the good wishes. Our spirits are strong - we CAN do this again!!!
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Post by natureluva on Apr 29, 2013 18:21:31 GMT -7
Hi! Thanks for the update on Stevie. As you taper the prednisone, watch for signs of returning pain and report any to the vet. This means the steroid isn't done doing its job of reducing the inflammation and a longer course may be needed.
Sounds like you and your vet have everything under control! Laser and acupuncture and wonderful compelementary therapies, and I am happy to hear that the vet will treat her epilepsy points - how interesting.
Keep up the great work - we're all pulling for you! ~Lisa
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 1, 2013 7:25:48 GMT -7
Stevie had a good night (no seizures- yay!), the accupuncture and laser really has helped again. The Vet said that if she had been even 3 weeks further along in her healing journey from the Jan IVDD collapse that the tumble that she took last Wednesday probably wouldn't have been an issue. (She came running into the house and hit a wet spot on the freshly mopped floor, and when she fell her top half twisted one way and the bottom half the other) Losing our "Graduation award" for strict cage rest kind of hurts I must admit - she has 8 bad discs and reinjured herself, we didn't fail at strict cage rest and medical management after all she was up an running for 5 weeks. We now have an additional carpet, so if we have one being cleaned we can replace it right away, rotate them around as needed, leaving no bare floor even for a couple of hours. Live and learn I guess. Thanks for everyone's help and prayers. Maureen and Stevie
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2013 10:20:14 GMT -7
I'm sorry too that Stevie had another disc problem and needed to start with crate rest once more, but the good news is that you were on it right away to get her on crate rest and vet help. Hopefully the taper will show all the swelling in the spinal cord is now gone.. then letting the disc heal for the remainder of the 8 weeks will have her back enjoying her home again. Great idea having a swap out carpet on hand. Please do keep us all updated.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 2, 2013 8:56:23 GMT -7
Two nights with no seizure activity!! Yay!!! We're off to the Vet this morning for another laser treatment. Hope this means that the Tramadol has completely cleared her system
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Post by Pauliana on May 2, 2013 18:34:25 GMT -7
Hope Stevie's vet appointment went well today. How is she doing tonight?
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 3, 2013 11:25:15 GMT -7
Stevie seemed to be in discomfort last night so I gave her the Buprenorphine at 10:30pm, it is now over 13 hours later and she is still very sedated. At first I thought that she had gotten worse because she wouldn't stand, or go pee, or even have a drink of water. Then I realized that her demeanor was sedated - Stevie is blind so checking her responses via vision, or how her pupils look isn't helpful. She did finally pee in her bed, and I have her cuddled up with a warmed up grain bag and blanket.I have called the Vet, and am waiting for her return call. The medication was pre-measured and I double checked the dosage she got 0.09mg orally and her dosage would be about 0.07mg. I am abit worried about how hard it hit her, but she is quiet and pain free (on the bright side)
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 3, 2013 12:03:17 GMT -7
Oh gosh Maureen, no end to worries is there. Being pain free is a blessing.... hope between you and the vet, it can be determined if Stevie just can do with a bit less dose on the pain med and it would still give comfort.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 3, 2013 14:31:42 GMT -7
The Vet called back and agrees that she needs to "sleep it off". She did wake up a bit and have a drink of water which was a relief. The Vet thinks that the Buprenorphine just hit her really hard because she is also on penobarbitol for her epilepsy. We are to watch and wait and if she still is so sedated tomorrow morning we have to go back to the Vet, possibly for an opiate reversal agent to be administerd. If I need to use it again I will cut the dose in half. We have sure had a steep learning curve with this little girl, for IVDD, all of the nifty drug interactions, and the side effects of electro-accupuncture with epilepsy (straight accupuncture is awesome - adding the electrical current also helped tremendously, but triggered seizures). Please keep her in thought and prayer
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Post by natureluva on May 3, 2013 16:44:33 GMT -7
Wow, I'm praying for Stevie, please let us know how she is tomorrow, if you have time. Good to note that electro-acupuncture could trigger seizures, thanks for that. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by Linda Stowe on May 4, 2013 9:26:08 GMT -7
Maureen, thinking of you and Stevie. Sending healing thoughts and prayers.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 4, 2013 10:20:27 GMT -7
Thanks to you all for the support. Stevie was finally sternal last night at about 7 pm, almost 21 hours after giving her the buprenorphine. I got her out to pee and she had a bit of water, a bit of hand fed wet food, and went back to sleep. She woke up at 3:30 am and really had to go out to potty, doing both a pee and BM, which was a relief. I had called the Vet just before the clinic closed to confirm that she should still get her evening phenobarbitol, because she needs the seizure control and I was afraid of depressing her CNS further. I admit to being somewhat angered by the staff's rather cavalier attitude of "gee she must be really sensitive to the buprenorphine, you can alsways visit after hours of there is still a problem" I told her that I would visit after hours if needed, that I wouldn't be paying for it, that they did this to my dog, (who 18 hours after medicating was still incredibly sedated), and that I was very upset and afraid for her. (I believe that I mentioned "aggressive old bag" before So lesson learned - more research before trusting that the Vet knows the drug interactions. Stevie is a bit of an unusual case I realize, but it is hard to feel understanding when your precious one is lying there almost comatose for nearly 24 hours. Stevie seems to be okay this morning, she went out to potty, snarfed down her breakfast, and is in general her bright sunny self, appearing no worse for her pharmacological adventure. Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers, Maureen and Stevie
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Post by Cal & Boner on May 4, 2013 12:25:29 GMT -7
Hi Maureen,
I just read through your posts after you responded to my posts about my dog, Boner. I just wanted to say that I also went through some issues with my vet. I took Boner in when all of this started with blind faith in my vet. I now understand that although the vet team I go to is very good and well respected in my area, they still make mistakes. My vet prescribed Boner a NSAID at the same time he was given a steiroid injection. I learned very quickly that this is absolutely not to be done. I hate that I learned this lesson in this way, but I will never again give my dog anything without checking the drug interactions myself first- whether it relates to IVDD or not. I also dealt with some off-putting comments from the vet as they tried to gloss over their mistake. Thankfully, Boner is doing better now, but I sympathize with you about feelings of guilt over trusting my vet 100%. So glad to hear that Stevie is getting better - my thoughts and prayers are still with you both.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 10, 2013 8:41:54 GMT -7
Stevie had another seizure at 1:30am How can her back ever heal if we can't get this under control I'm feeling such despair right now...
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Post by Pauliana on May 10, 2013 9:10:02 GMT -7
Sending lots of HUGS your way, Maureen! Stevie is so lucky to have you in her corner. How about trying Gabapentin (Neurontin) since the Phenobarbitol doesn't seem to be getting the seizures under control. Gabapentin is an anti Seizure drug and is also a wonderful for hard to control pain. I know because I was on it for extreme pain and it worked. Keep in mind that the liquid version of it would have to be compounded for a dog because the human version has Xylitol which is toxic to dogs. The pills/capsules don't have Xylitol. Tyler was on it after surgery and while he doesn't have Epilepsy his pain was well controlled. I am hoping this is the answer for Stevie's pain and Epilepsy.
Sending comforting thoughts..
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 10, 2013 18:06:10 GMT -7
She has an appointment with her Holistic Accupuncture Vet on Monday - I wanted to ask her about other medications, because we can't just keep upping her phenobarb. Also been doing some research on prednisone and whether or not triggering seizures is a side effect, as Stevie is still getting treated once every other day (5mg) for 7 more treatments. Prednisone is processed by the liver, phenobarb is processed by the liver... I HATE this!
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 10, 2013 21:02:12 GMT -7
The prednisone is short term so extremely unlikely to cause liver damage even with the phenobarb. Phenobarb is indeed processed by the liver but damage is purely dose and time related. My sister had a mini dachsie on phenobarb from a very young age and over the years it had to be increased to control his seizures ultimately to quite a high dose. He lived to be 15 years old and died of renal failure, never showed any signs of liver problems. Indeed it's good be aware of all the products we expose our pets to but we must also be knowledgeable about the reality of the true risk factor then weigh the risk vs the benefit.
Seizures can be a challenge even to a vet with experience. Keep your vet apprised of the situation and keep communication lines open. Let us know how it's going.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 12, 2013 9:26:36 GMT -7
I am not worried about liver damage, I am worried that the pred may be interfering with the phenobarb activity. We are two nights without a seizure now. She actually had a good night, which is a relief. Stevie is much more vocal about resenting her crate rest this time around, as she is not as injured (how is that for terrible grammar) as she was last time around,so we are looking for ways to keep her from being really bored. I have set up a little recovery suite outside too, so that she can rest in the sun or shade when I am working in the garden, and not be alone in the house. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated - remember that she is blind so we need tactile things, not visual things
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Post by Pauliana on May 12, 2013 9:49:23 GMT -7
Would she like a stuffless dog toy to cuddle with? They are soft and cuddly and Tyler loves to cuddle up with his. He finds a lot of comfort with them and even treats them with tenderness. They are like his "pets".
Continuing prayers for Stevie!
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 12, 2013 19:31:28 GMT -7
She has her "babies" to cuddle with. I give her the Z Bones edible chewy sticks occassionally and smear peanut butter in her Kong. I think that combatting boredom is going to be a big challenge this time around. Poor little girl.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 13, 2013 6:45:10 GMT -7
Stevie had 2 seizures last night, please keep her in your prayers.
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Post by Sherry Layman on May 13, 2013 7:00:14 GMT -7
Perhaps your vet has indicated otherwise but I think if anything the phenobarbital is inhibiting the effectiveness of the prednisone...I believe it causes increased metabolism. If that's the case you're safe with the phenobarbital and it would be the steroid that would be less effective. Again, I might be incorrect so if your vet has said different then absolutely go with that information.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on May 13, 2013 7:21:58 GMT -7
Yeah, that is what my research is telling me too, that phenobarb decreases prednisone efficacy, not the other way around. Just waiting for the Vet to open. We don't have any history for Stevie since we adopted her on Dec 27. I knew she was having seizures (untreated) before we adopted her, but we have had dogs with epilepsy before. Her seizure acitivty is all over the map, we got her on phenobarb when we adopted her and she was good for 4 weeks - then we had her vaccine booster and she started sezuring again - this triggered the first IVDD episode- upped her evening phenobarb because her seizures are almost always at night when she is asleep - she was good for 10 weeks - then electro accupuncture - more seizures - discontinued the electro part of the accupuncture and upped the phenobarb in the morning too - good for 2 weeks, then she slipped and started this IVDD episode - Tramadol - more seizures (we knew that it was a possible side effect-but the Tramadol worked so well...)- discontinued Tramadol, 10 days with no seizures and now whe has had 3 in the past 36 hours. She had a CT scan with her first IVDD episode and that ruled out brain tumours and stuff like that. I hate this!! Please keep Stevie in your prayers.
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