Brenda's Coco 4/23 conservative

Brenda, welcome to Dodgerslist.  We are glad you found us. We need to get to the serious stuff first. The not eating/drinking is very likely due to the stomach not being protected. I would get Pepicd AC on board asap now. Then as soon as you can get with your vet this am keep him in the loop. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not to take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID and thereafter every 12 hours.

Next as soon as possible this am you will need to bring Coco into the vet if you determine she has lost bladder control to get a hands on top of your hands type of expressing lesson. So let us know if she has control. The only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out bladder control is returning. If you however, are finding urine leaks in her bedding or she is leaking on you whe lifted…those are the signs she has lost bladder control. Review this info and video first so you get more out of a expressing lesson www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Let us know what you observe.

Please give us these specific details on her neuro functions and other details:

-- Are you doing the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty in this way …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)?

-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy?

-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? \

-- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail due to being happy .... excluding leg or tail movements at potty time?

-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

-- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for Coco to get back to enjoying life after recovering.   Knowledge is the best defense in fighting and winning with this disease. Reading others posts on the forum can be of comfort. But the meat of what you need to know is on our main web page. A very quick way to get up to speed on meds, how healing happens and when for each of the phases is the "Overview: the essentials" yellow button. Then work your way through the rest of the orange and blue buttons to complete your education. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Hi Brenda, just chiming in. Please get Coco back to the vet for a hands on expressing lesson. You need to know how to express her. It is dangerous for her to go too long without urinating.  Not only can it cause a urinary tract infection it can damage her bladder and she could end up being unable to control her bladder.

Here is a link to how to lift and carry Coco.

If Coco is being too rambunctious in her crate such as attempting to climb out, or standing on her hind legs, that simply can't be permitted. The 2nd paragraph, Tamara explains about lowering the crate roof to prevent standing on hind legs. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm

Whining and barking are behavior problems. Watch when you reward (petting, treats, talking to him, giving eye contact, ). Those rewards should only be given when she is quiet or doing something you approve of. Otherwise you can be inadvertently training for unwanted behaviors. If she is behaving and quiet reward with a "good girl" or a treat.
Clicker training: www.clickerlessons.com/clicker.htm

Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best to help relax a dog. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives.

Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below:

Oral calmers:
1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health
2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure]
3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com

Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog.

I know how overwhelming it is to have a downed dog with IVDD because in late January my Tyler went down with no use of his back legs and we had to very quickly get up to speed on our knowledge of IVDD to help our beloved Tyler.. Since he hadn't eaten he went directly for a CT scan and then surgery.. He was moving his legs when he woke up and walking by the next day. To watch him now you wouldn't even know he had surgery.

Check with the Vet before trying the Benadryl for the correct dosage.. Try the other calmers first. 

Tyler wouldn't eat either when he was in pain..  A disc episode is very painful.  Her pain needs to be controlled dose to dose of the medications. Tramadol for pain, Methocarbamol (Muscle relaxant) and Gabapentin ( for hard to control pain) are normally used in a disc herniation and normally every 8 hours provides the pain relief needed in order for Coco to begin healing. When a dog is in severe pain, they can not heal.  I don't like lots of drugs either but pain is to be avoided at all costs. If you wish to do conservative treatment, it's important for her to be pain free.. Here is a short video that shows how a disc herniation happens:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm

Plus the other concern is Coco is receiving Rimadyl, a NSAID on an empty stomach, a real danger to her delicate tummy.  Please ask the Vet right away about being proactive to protect her stomach with Pepcid AC 30 minutes before the Rimadyl.. She doesn't need a bleeding Ulcer on top of a disc episode..  Rimadyl is given to relieve the swelling, most IVDD dogs need to be at the anti inflammatory dose for 2 weeks to a month to resolve swelling.. To tell if the swelling is down, a Vet will ask that you begin to taper off the Rimadyl and pain meds. If she shows no sign of pain during the taper, that means the swelling is gone and she can go without medication. Follow the directions of your Vet.

Entice Coco to eat.. Does she like cooked chicken or have a food she adores? Now is the time to tempt her to get her appetite going.  

Coco shouldn't take Prednisone without a 4-7 day stop of the Rimadyl!!!

Washout

Vets who practice safe medicine will look for a 4-7 day washout from a NSAID (i.e.metacam, etc) to a glucocorticoids (i.e. prednisone, etc) unless an emergency calls for a faster switch. Then it is a high consideration to double protect the stomach with not just Pepcid AC, but adding sucralfate
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”Drugs of the NSAID class should not be used concurrently as the potential for the aforementioned side effects increases. For similar reasons, NSAIDS should not be used in conjunction with corticosteroid hormones such as Prednisone, Dexamethasone etc. Pfizer recommends a 5-7 day rest period when changing over to Carprofen or to another NSAID from Carprofen. Aspirin poses an exception due to its strong platelet inactivating abilities so 10-14 days is recommended when switching to Carprofen from Aspirin. Allow at least one week between Prednisone and Carprofen.” from:
www.marvistavet.com/html/rimadyl.html
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Katrina R. Viviano, PhD, DVM writes in Small Animal Pain Management Clinical Pharmacology "NSAIDs have significant drug interactions with glucocorticoids (gastrointestinal ulceration is potentiated by glucocorticoids via inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis), benzodiazepines, salicylate containing herbs (meadowsweet or willow), gingko, garlic, ginger, ginseng, and aminoglycosides. ... Consider a minimum of a 7-day washout period between NSAIDs and either glucocorticoids or other NSAIDs." SMALL ANIMAL PAIN MANAGEMENT CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY Katrina R. Viviano, PhD, DVM
secure.aahanet.org/eweb/images/AAHAnet/phoenix2009proceedings/pdfs/01_scientific/025_SMALL%20ANIMAL%20PAIN%20MANAG.pdf