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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 19, 2013 10:40:40 GMT -7
Biggs is my 4 year old Doxie. Right now he's going through his 3rd attack in three months. The first month he just had bad back pain-he then had 6 laser therapy sessions for two weeks. Then we had him rest and he was back to normal. Then about two-three weeks later he randomly woke up paralyzed in his back legs. We then put him on steroids and rest. We were referred to a specialist but at that point his legs started working again. No surgery, luckily. Now yesterday (which is about three weeks since the paralyzed episode) he started having the back pain again. He's now back on steroids. I'm feeling at a loss now, like will it ever stop? What can I do? Thanks Dodgerslist. UPDATE: This morning we went to take him out and he has no back leg feeling at all. This is the 2nd Paralyzed episode since about 3 weeks. Any help is appreciated!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 19, 2013 10:59:47 GMT -7
Brynna, welcome to Dodgerslist Care and Support Forum. We are glad you are here. Can you tell us if Biggs has been on 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks with all of the disc episodes? So that would mean no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc, to prevent a relapse and to prevent surgery. The recovery suite is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe from other pets and kids from bothering them. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. If you can give us the particulars are on his meds, that may also shed some light on what is going on. What are the exact names of all his meds, the dose in mg and the dosing frequency? Can Biggs still wag his tail if you do some happy talk to him? Can he move his legs at all? Is his pain fully under control? no shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, ? Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. So until that happens, pain needs to be fully controlled. Steroids are not a pain reliever. Tramadol, methocarbamol and Gabapentin are used as a combo to get pain under control. Steroids can do a number of the stomach lining, by that I mean bleeding ulcers or worse. So here at Dodgerslist we follow the vets who understand this and are proactive in stomach protection. Let us know if Pepcid AC (famotidine) is on board .... 5mg 30 minutes before the steroid and there after every 12 hours. If it is not can you give a phone call and ask in this particular way. "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there are no health issues, then why not avoid another problem with this relatively safe over the counter acid reducer med. Stay calm, I do know this is a most overwhelming time, it has been for all of us with own own dogs. Biggs will be looking to you as his leader that things will be ok.... give him a big hug and tell him so... because things WILL be OK. One way for you to get that calmer feeling is with self-education. Knowledge is power to fight the enemy and WIN! There is not a better place to get accurate information than here on our main web page: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm |
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 19, 2013 11:34:24 GMT -7
Hi Paula!
Biggs hasn't been in a crate- we have tried that and he HATES it and freaks out more causing him to put more stress on his back. His vet told us to just keep him in one spot on the couch or floor. That's what we have been doing. As of right now, he can wag his tail, but his back legs are like "frog legs." they just lay limp under him and he can't use them at all. He's taking Tramydol, Prednisone, and he is taking the Pepcid with his steroids, and Rimidal. also he's taking liquid ROBAXIN. not rimidol. He has calmed down a lot since last night, but he still seems to whine every so often. His stomach is still a little tight. He refuses to eat and drink, and hasn't gone to the bathroom at all today. (it's noon:30 here.) We have no kids or other dogs, and we aren't allowing him to bark or look out the window (as this causes a riot.)
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member 
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294 
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Apr 19, 2013 12:50:05 GMT -7
Hi Brynna, Just wanted to share my story...Mine was never crated and I thought she would freak out..It was like she knew I was trying to help her, and I didn't have any issues at all. I did get one with a top opening though, easier to get them in and out for potty breaks..Might be worth it to re-try the crate..Sorry you are going through this, you are the best place you can be, the support system here is AMAZING. GOOD LUCK AND MANY (((HUGS))) TO YOU.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 19, 2013 12:52:24 GMT -7
Brynna, that is very good news that he can wag his tail due to being happy. This means nerve regeneration can happen. Do you see him shiver or tremble along with the tight tummy. Can you tell us the dose in mg you give him, how often do you give the dose? I'm very glad to hear Pepcid AC is on board. Not eating can be due to one of two things. He may be in pain or the Pepcid AC is not enough. I would assume the Pepcid AC may not be enough. Do not take a chance read up on sucralfate and then be an advocate in further protection of the stomach lining. www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlHas he not released urine or is it poop that he has not done? Do you find any urine leaks in his bedding or does he leak on you when lifted? The last two signal bladder control has been lost and the need to manually express the bladder. You would get more out of the lesson by first viewing this video and information: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmThere are things you can do to help Biggs relax in his recovery suite. We must do what we must do to give him the very best of chances to recover. You have already seen that what you are doing is not working, as he is not recovering and having painful relapses. Many of our members have found these ways to help their dog accept the recovery suite (packNplay, wire crate, ex-pen, baby crib, pet stroller. Consider some of these ideas: -- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm-- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Check out some mild calmers such as Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives that you would get from your vet. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] -- At night, try placing the crate on a sturdy bedside table to sleep next to you. -- During the day try the coffee table or the dinning room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from a high. -- Make the crate or ex-pen more cozy by draping a blanket over part of the top. Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows. -- "Dodgerslist Emergency Crate Training" information has even more details: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 19, 2013 16:03:31 GMT -7
Stevie freaked out about being in the regular crate, so I got a wire crate. She accepted that one, I think that it felt less isolating without the solid plastic sides. Keeping you in thought and prayer  |
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 19, 2013 16:09:07 GMT -7
We ended up taking Biggs to the vet this afternoon to have a catheter. The vet is referring us to the same surgeon we saw before. Biggs keeps trembling and whining, he can't get comfortable (his stomach is way tight and since he can't move his hind legs very well i can see his reason.) I am going to try to get a baby pack n play from my parents and see if he can handle that. It just breaks my heart to see him like this! His mg's are as follows:
Tramadol: 1/2 tablet every 6-8 hrs as needed.
Prednisone: 1 Tablet every 12 hours for 3 days, then 1 tablet once a day for 3 days. Then 1 tablet every other day for 3 days.
Robaxin (liquid):1.7mL every 8 hours.
The vet also gave us a PILL robaxin because Biggs is refusing the liquid.
Robaxin PILL: 1/4 tablet every 8 hours.
Pepcid is offered with the prednisone.
ALSO, we started Biggs on the Laser Therapy again. He will be going every other day for 6 treatments.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 19, 2013 16:28:40 GMT -7
Sounds like Biggs' pain isn't fully controlled. The tight tummy is from what is called "referred pain" - causes the dog's stomach muscles to tense up. Could you ask your vet to add in the nerve pain medication, gabapentin (Neurontin)? It is very helpful for breakthrough pain. Also, please get the Sucralfate to coat the stomach.
Is surgery a financial option? If so, you may want to get an opinion from a Board Certified neurologist if pain cannot be controlled with medication. ~Lisa
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 19, 2013 16:51:42 GMT -7
Hey Lisa!
Surgery Financially would be an option. I just have to schedule that appointment for the consultation first thing tomorrow when they open. His stomach was super tight and then I had him laying on the couch next to me for a few mins to calm him down, and he pee'd all over the couch and me. now his stomach isn't as tight, and the shaking has calmed down (for now.) Biggs has been eating little bits here and there, and drinking every-so-often. Where is Sucralfate located? Is it a dog medicine or a human medicine? Thanks!!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 19, 2013 16:57:22 GMT -7
It is both - often available at the drug store ( like peptobismol)
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 19, 2013 17:02:11 GMT -7
Thank you! I will grab some of that. Will that take the place of the Pepcid or is it just in addition to? |
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 19, 2013 20:02:08 GMT -7
Biggs is going downhill fast. In a matter of hours. His pain killers aren't working well. We called the er and they said there's nothing they can do for him at this point and surgery is needed. We can't call the surgeon till morning, and I can honestly say I'm getting more and more worried. He's started panting, he's shaking a lot, won't eat, (however he is drinking though). He also is peeing EVERYWHERE. All over the bed, on the floor, on the blankets. Should I be as worried as I am? I'm mostly scared we might have to put him down. Which I want to avoid at all costs. But is this THAT serious or is that not even an option?
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 19, 2013 20:16:10 GMT -7
Is the ER where the surgeon is? Doesn't the surgeon have an emergency number. Most surgeons are used to coming in at any hr to do surgery when it is needed. You need to get him to a vet right away for at least some pain killer. They can give him shots which work fast.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 19, 2013 20:17:19 GMT -7
Brynna,
IVDD is treatable and with the right medications and conservative treatment many recover. Sometimes surgery is the only way if the pain can't be controlled with medications.. ER should be able to do something for him to ease his pain until surgery time tomorrow and they shouldn't just say they can't do anything.
The surgeon you are going to take him to tomorrow, I would call that number and talk to the answering service and explain the emergency with Biggs and see if you can get him help NOW.
Don't take No for an answer..
Hugs, Pauliana
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 20, 2013 6:47:53 GMT -7
How is Biggs doing today??
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 20, 2013 8:03:48 GMT -7
Hey Stevieluv! Biggs FINALLY calmed down and fell asleep around 5am. It was a looooong night of him readjusting. I called the surgeon and we will be leaving to see him in about a half hour. I can't tell if biggs' whining is just him being frustrated that his legs don't work or not. But he's at least calm this morning so far. I'm nervous to see if he needs surgery or not, and the success rates if he does. Good news though- his tail was completely limp last night, but this morning he can move it every so often. I'll keep you all updated on what the surgeon says/does! Thanks a bunch for everyone's support! I'm so happy I have this system for me as I'm new to this. |
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 20, 2013 8:08:20 GMT -7
However, Biggs is still paralyzed in both legs. When he does walk they just drag behind him. His urine is a little bit more controlled today, but still coming out once in a while involuntarily.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 20, 2013 8:46:25 GMT -7
Brynna,
Keeping prayers and healing wishes going for Biggs as he sees his surgeon today. Please update us after his visit with the Surgeon.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 20, 2013 9:37:36 GMT -7
Will be thinking about you and Mr. Biggs today. Glad you were able to get to see the surgeon today.
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Post by bryncamp3 on Apr 20, 2013 11:15:12 GMT -7
Unfortunately I'm sad to report: the surgeon said he has lost all feeling. The chance of success was 20%. Long story short- we made the decision to take his pain and send him to heaven. Now I need to go through the worst part-grieving. Thank you all for the support for me and Biggs at this time.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 20, 2013 11:46:13 GMT -7
Brynna, I know right now your heart is breaking and for that I am so very sorry. Do know what Dodgerslist is all about is education.... chances of not being able to walk again would not be a reason to end a life as dogs do not care about how they get from point A to B to have a happy life. However, there is the chance with any spinal cord injury that another disease can take hold. The name is Myelomalacia. There is nothing an owner did or the vet did to cause it to happen. The signs come on fast and a quick decision must be made as the ending is not good as the spinal cord begins an upward movement of dying approaching the lungs. The dogs become more painful than the initial disc episode pain. Not even the strongest of pain meds controls the pain, they may develop a fever. Twitching of the head, not able to hold the head up loss of voice or a horse bark. In the end the breathing becomes very labored. With Myelomalacia the kindest but most difficult give to give is that of ending the pain humanly with euthanasia. If the surgeon said it was Myelomalacia you can read more about it here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Myelomalacia.pdfWhen the time is right and grieving is not so raw, you may wish to give Bigg's a legacy. In his name you can help to educate owners in the hopes of saving their lives or reducing needless pain with good crate rest principals. Ask Linda to send you a free packet for your vet and business sized cards to hand out wherever you see owners of IVDD prone breeds. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm "When you bring a pet into your life, you begin a journey — a journey that will bring you more love and devotion than you have ever known, yet also test your strength and courage.
If you allow, the journey will teach you many things, about life, about yourself, and most of all, about love. You will come away changed forever, for one soul cannot touch another without leaving its mark. www.kentcreativeweb.com/journey.htmlGodspeed sweet Biggs. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Apr 20, 2013 19:13:43 GMT -7
I am so sorry for your loss. He is running fast and pain free now, and will meet you again at the Bridge. Keeping you in thought and prayer.
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Apr 21, 2013 6:33:21 GMT -7
Oh No..  |
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Apr 21, 2013 11:24:42 GMT -7
I am so sorry for your loss. (((hugs)))
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