|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 13, 2015 17:28:32 GMT -7
louie has gone down again! Louie, standard long-haired dachshund, 7.5 years old, 25.6 lbs., had disk surgery in March 2011. This tine we want to go the conservative route. vet this morning gave him
25.6 lbs 100 cc of Dexamethasone (2mg/ml), and sent home with us 30 Prednisone 10mg pills (2 a day for 5 days then taper) to give him Over the course of the next 10 days or so. No pain meds--I asked and she said not until he's finished with the Prednisone.
Tomorrow we are going to another vet who was recommended because he has magic talents with laser light therapy or some such thing. My concerns are mostly the logistics of getting him to the vet (in and out of the car, etc.) and outside for Pottying. I got a laundry basket which works okay for moving him--if he doesn't wiggle around too much, and if there's someone here to carry the other end! We've borrowed a large wire crate which I'd like to put in our bedroom at night so he won't be so alone, but again, how do we get him up the stairs? And when we go outside, how do we get him to pee? He still has tail action... Thanks--I sure didn't think I'd ever have to deal with this again!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 13, 2015 18:05:51 GMT -7
Ann, so sorry to hear another disc problem. With conservative treatment the crate rest part is necessarily more strict that for a post-op dog... it really is 100% STRICT 24/7: no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no PT, no chiro (aka VOM) The laundry basket is really not idea as dogs can leap out, even those with paralyzed legs. I realize at 25.6 pounds he is a bigger boy vs. the smaller minis. Fill us in on a bit more detail so we know better how to help: ☐ Is it at all possible physically for you to carry Louie to and from the potty place supporting both ends? STRICT means No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? ☐ Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? ☐ Please make sure the ALL important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC is on board asap. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the prednisone. Give Pred with a meal. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) is 0.44mg per pound every 12 with disc episodes. Always good to look up each of Louie's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/famotidine.html ☐ What are the details about the "30 10mg pills"? Is is Prednsone? How many mgs are you to give each dose and how often? Was a date specified when there would be a taper down? ☐ Currently Louie wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? ☐ Can your dog specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? ☐ Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? It is very highly abnormal to prescribe a steroid and no pain meds. Steroids can take 7-30+ days to get all the painful swelling down. Treatment of pain in animals suffering from a disc episode is important for humane reasons. Decades of research into pain management indicate that pain is best managed early and aggressively; it is harder to combat pain once it is well established than it is to manage pain before it becomes severe. Please read up on pain meds and anti-inflammatories so you have background info to best advocate for Louie's needs. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmGetting the general feel of just how conservative treatment works will also be helpful in what to expect, meds, etc. in discussion with the vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmFirst in order is that Louie is not in any pain. That has to be managed by meds not acupuncture or laser. Those therapies can be adjuncts to pain control but not the sole means. Let us know what you are observing. Transporting in a car: pad out the crate with a rolled up blanket or towels so when cornering or breaking, Louie's body will not shift causing dangerous movement to his back and the disc trying to heal.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 14, 2015 5:46:46 GMT -7
Answers to your questions:
As well as being pretty heavy, Louie, of course, is really long! (At just under 26 pounds he is not overweight--he's just a big boy!). It's hard for me to carry him and feel secure that I'm not hurting him or thar he's not going to wiggle out of my arms. I'll try the sheep carry to see if that might work for both of us. (We're on board with the strict crate rest.)
No pain as of yesterday afternoon. He might cry a bit when we try to move him, but no shivering or yelping.
Will definitely talk with today's vet about Pepcid!
With the Pred. it's the typical dialing down dosage: Prednisone 2 a day for 5 days, 1 a day for 5 days, then 1/2 tablet every other day til they're gone.
Louie's legs pretty much don't support him at all. Although we haven't let him try (STRICT crate rest) I think he can't walk at all. He does have control of his tail.
When we went outside this morning (BRRRRR!) I held up his back end, and after a couple minutes he did pee.
Yes, his eating and drinking is fine! No poops since night before last, however.
My main problem with transporting is that I don't have a proper sized crate. His normal kennel is really big--way too big for me to handle. We do have a kitty-sized one that's too small for him. I will see if I can borrow a beagle-sized crate today.
Paula--Is there a way to reply to your questions within your post?
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 14, 2015 6:19:28 GMT -7
Hi, Anne - We only received an answer to one of Paula's questions. It's most important that we hear back from you as to each of Paula's questions so we can help you further.
My Jeremy's a Cocker Spaniel and weighs almost 30 lbs so I understand your difficulties. If Louie will go on a pee pad inside, that might be helpful as you could just place the pee pad right outside of the crate door. Obtain an ex-pen to use at potty times where you would enlarge the very small recovery suite area just a bit at potty time. Lay down a pee pad WITH the addition of urine from another dog or from Louie on top. Always save a used piece of pee pad in a ziplock bag to use at potty time. Louie can learn it is ok with you to pee on the pee pad, be sure to use the command go potty and when he does give lavish praise. Castor wheels can be purchased and put on wire crates so the crate can be wheeled outside. Do what it takes to limit the footsteps to potty. Keep the recovery suite by the exit door. Make a potty area on a deck. Make a ramp over steps. Put a crate in your car, pad it around the inside with blankets/towel to prevent too much movement during a car ride, buckle a wire crate with the seat belt to secure it.
We'll await your answers to each of Paula's questions so we can offer you further support.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 14, 2015 8:05:14 GMT -7
Anne, do help us with the med list so that we correctly understand what Louie is taking: 25.6 lbs 100 cc of Dexamethasone shot (2mg/ml) on 1/13 Prednisone [to start 1/14?] 20mg 2x/day for 5 days then taper on 1/19 No pain meds Pepcid AC asking about Please get a call in early this am to a vet, do not wait on Pepcid AC. Dex is highly notorious for causing GI tract damage- prednisone can also cause extra acids, change in routine is stressful causing stomach acids..... Louie does not need another problem on top of what he is dealing with...bleeding ulcers can happen very quickly and unexpectedly. We've seen far too many serious problems when the idea of being proactive with Pepcid AC has not been followed. NCU and 11+ hospitals working with NCU prescribe a GI protectant. Dogs presented to NCU with IVDD often develop GI upset whether they are given steroid medications or not. www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/tc/clinical_services/neuro/acute_disc.html☐ Be very observant for Dex/Pred damage: not wanting to eat, poops loose/diarrhea -red or black tarry blood in stools Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the prednisone. Give Pred with a meal. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) is 0.44mg per pound every 12 with disc episodes. Confirm Louie's dose with your vet. The vet is trying a dex shot PLUS a 5 day course of Pred —6 days in total before testing with a taper of pred to see if all the painful swelling is indeed gone. During the 6 day period Louie should NOT show any signs of needless pain, there are pain meds to keep him in comfort. So promptly report to the vet and get those pain meds because you ARE seeing a sign of pain of vocalizing when moved: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy. Here is how the taper is normally handled. The pain meds are stopped on the day of the pred taper. Stopping pain masking pain medications allows you to observe if any hint of pain surfaces and alert your vet right away. The vet will likely then call for going back up to the original dose of pred (the anti-inflammatory level) and restrat pain meds — all for a bit longer and then try another taper. ☐ Currently can Louie move the legs at all as he tries to turn around or reposition himself inside his crate? or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? ☐ Can Louie specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 14, 2015 14:38:23 GMT -7
Maybe the following will sufficiently answer your questions?
Yes, I can carry him, but it worries me to death because what if I should lose my grip? What if he should suddenly shift his weight and tumble out of my arms? I think he picks up on my nervousness and tends to be distressed, too, and makes his little noises...
It's not so much that he's reluctant to move as that he can't. He does shift around some in his crate. At the vet's this morning they wanted to see him move so they put him on the floor between the vet and his tech. They coaxed Louie, and he didn't move. Then I called him (not more than a foot or two away) and he scooted over faster than a speeding bullet! (He liked that slippery floor.)
Yes, he does wag his tail when he's happy. He can't squat and pee because he can't stand. However, he does pee when I hold up his hindquarters over one of his pee spots. And boy, He also leaks--or goes if my timing hasn't been right.
The vet this morning was fine with the Pepcid, so I've started that this afternoon. Then it will be in his system when I feed him and give him his Pred in a little while. He X-rayed him (guess the other vet didn't because I told her we didn't want to do surgery this time...) to find likely spots for the light laser therapy. After his treatment, Louie perked right up!
However, Dr. Baker, the vet we saw today, did not advise pain meds in addition to the prednisone, which he noted is one of the most effective pain-killers there is! Maybe it's a Michigan thing... In any case, since the vets are in agreement, and Louie really doesn't seem to be in much pain, I'm not doing anything more about this right now. If he's in pain when we start backing off the prednisone, I'll ask again.
i just wanted to clarify about the laundry basket. We're not using it instead of a crate--he has a large kennel that he likes being in quite a lot! But it's an enclosed plastic one, and sometimes he likes to be with his family. So yesterday I dug out a sand chair from the garage, and when I have a few minutes, carefully put him in the basket and sit next to him on the floor, petting him with one hand and holding my book with the other. He is in the basket only when we are right here with him!
He did poop this morning and it looked completely normal.
Thanks for for your help! Now I'm going to see what I can do about rounding up a medium-sized travel crate, and figuring how to set up a "recovery suite" for Louie!
ann
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 14, 2015 16:38:48 GMT -7
As the vets below note steroids are not pain relievers. A steroid can take 7-30 days to get painful swelling down. Pain relievers on the other hand mask, block pain within an hour of taking them. So "not much pain" is TOO much pain! Louie only has you to advocate for him, hire a new 2nd opinion vet that has a better understanding of IVDD and pain. Vocalizing, yelping, crying out when moved just simply can not be allowed. It is not humane to allow when there are pain meds to provide Louie full comfortate during crate rest.
GCs [steroids] are among the most misused class of drugs in veterinary medicine. There is little evidence-based medicine that supports the administration of these drugs in the clinical setting for analgesia. ....It is the resolution of these illnesses that confers the analgesia. Mathews, K., Kronen, P. W., Lascelles, D., Nolan, A., Robertson, S., Steagall, P. V., Wright, B. and Yamashoot a pickle!a, K. (2014), Guidelines for Recognition, Assessment and Treatment of Pain. Journal of Small Animal Practice, 55: E10–E68. doi: 10.1111/jsap.12200 Journal of Small Animal Practice June 2014
Very excellent to hear that Louie does have bladder control. While on pred you will likely need to schedule taking him out to potty every 3-4 hours as his thirst is increased with Pred.
What is the dose in mg and how often are you giving Pepcid AC? Giving Prednisone with a meal for added protection?
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 16, 2015 21:43:50 GMT -7
Yes, the vet did send us home with Tramadol today [1/16]. I left the bottle downstairs, but believe the tablets are 50 mg, to be given every eight hours.
Ann
--------- 5mgs of Pepsid 30 mins. before meals. Prednisone with meals. (Louie gets breakfast and dinner.)
Tomorrow [1/16] when we go for laser treatment I hope vet is there so I can talk to him about Tramadol (?) .
Apparently I don't understand how to post in this system. I did answer the Pepcis question once before! There's always a learning curve...
Ann
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 17, 2015 6:54:23 GMT -7
Ann, good job on getting the Tramadol for Louie. Please check and let us know the exact dosage of the Tramadol so we have a complete list of all meds and also let us know whether Louie's pain is now under control. There should be no sign of pain from one dose of the meds to the next.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 19, 2015 17:41:38 GMT -7
[25.6 lbs] 50 msg of Tramadol twice a day. [every 8 hours] New doc wants Louie to stay on twice-a-day pred for another week.
He does still make tiny little moans when I pick him up, (less now than a week ago) but he never has liked being picked up. It's unclear whether these are sounds of pain, or leave-me-alone-I-was-sleeping sounds, or even you're-squeezing-all-the-air-out-of-me! I SO wish dogs spoke English! I'm officially changing vets. New doc wants Louie to stay on twice-a-day pred for another week. (One of the big differences is the office staff here has already figured out who we are, and they love Louie! A far cry from the other vet...) When I take Louie out to pee, he can support himself a little on his back legs. (Of course, I hold him, but he can hold his legs pretty straight and carry some of his weight.). That's good, right?
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Jan 19, 2015 22:05:28 GMT -7
Hi Ann,
In order to tell if Louie is in pain when he moans being picked up, usually there is more than one pain sign. Signs of pain are shivering, reluctance to move or slow to move, tight, tense tummy, holding a leg up flamingo style, yelping, arching the back.. Moaning sounds like pain to me but watch him and see what else you observe and let his Vet know.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 20, 2015 6:25:41 GMT -7
Ann, when you say that Louie has never liked to be picked up, has he always made a similar moaning sound when picked up? I agree with Pauliana that it sounds like pain as pain can worsen when the dog is picked up. Also Tramadol has a short half life of 1.7 hours and may need to be prescribed at a minimum of every 8 hours. There should be no sign of pain from one dose of the pain meds to the next. You had mentioned on 1/16 that the Tramadol was to be given every 8 hours but after checking the bottle, you said twice a day, which would be every 12 hours. Please confirm how often the Tramadol is being given and what you're observing as to pain.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 20, 2015 9:29:23 GMT -7
Oh, I reported incorrectly. Of course, Tramadol is every 8 hours. I'll see the vet today and ask what he thinks about Louie's level of pain.
When I help Louie stand so he can pee, his feet are no longer knuckling under! Can't believe I forgot to tell you that!
|
|
|
Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Jan 20, 2015 10:11:22 GMT -7
Hello Ann, Please let us know how your vet visit goes today. If you do feel Louie is indeed in pain then please discuss this with your vet. There are other pain medications that can be added to the Tramadol like Methocarbamol which is a muscle relaxant and Gabapentin which is for nerve pain or hard to control pain.. These three are the ones most commonly used for IVDD disc episodes.. For more reading on pain control so you can discuss this with your Vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 21, 2015 13:00:26 GMT -7
Hi Debbie, Marjorie, Pauliani, and Paula-- I just wanted to take time to thank you for all your words of concern, and your advice. It's so reassuring to know you are there!
Louie has been showing no signs of pain. He's even quiet when I pick him up! This morning it looked like he didn't feel very good, but maybe that was because I woke him up at 6:00 for his Pepcid. He has seemed brighter as the day has gone on.
Yesterday's vet visit: no additional pain meds now; continuing laser therapy on an every other day basis, vet said it wouldn't hurt to increase his Pepcid to 10 mgs. (What do you think? It's just so hard to cut those pills! Maybe you know a brand or generic that's easier to cut than the actual Pepcid, which comes in those tiny little coated squares? I even bought a pill cutter--they crumble into tiny bits!)
Today my question is, how do we keep him happy when he has to be still all day, every day? He's licking his paws a lot. He doesn't seem to want to chew (unless it's on a treat!). I keep him with me most of the day--contained, of course! Perhaps there are ideas on the website that I have simply missed. This can't be an unusual problem, and I'm sure it will only get worse as he feels better!
Thanks again for all you do!
Ann
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 21, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -7
The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) in dogs is 0.22mg to 0.44mg per pound of weight every 12 to 24 hours. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html We do follow vets who prescribe Pepcid AC every 12 hours. So yes, since you have your vet's approval, you can increase the dosage of the Pepcid AC to 10 mgs 2x/day. Keep an eye on the licking. Not meaning to frighten you, but I do want to make you aware of neuropathic pain. We all have had pins and needles feeling. Your dog could be feeling abnormal nerve sensations that are mild pins and needles but which could progress to painful burning, on-fire feeling that makes them bite to stop the pain. These are abnormal signals… neuropathic pain. Dogs have tragically chewed off body parts to stop the pain. An e-collar on or in a pinch a lengthwise folded towel, secured closed with duct tape can keep them from reaching their legs till you get vet help. Gabapentin helps with this kind of pain. Keep an eye on the licking and if it progresses to excessive licking or biting, let your vet know ASAP. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/neuropathy.pdfHere's our page with tips on crate rest: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmYou can soak kibble in broth and freeze each normal kibble portion into a Kong so Louie has a job... working for his food. That might occupy him a bit. Basically, if he's calm in the crate, hopefully he'll get bored and just sleep. Rest is what he needs.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 23, 2015 10:06:58 GMT -7
Just wanted to check in with you! I thought I had answered your comment about the licking, Marjorie, but perhaps I just composed it in my mind. It's his front paws he licks, not the ones that don't work. He's always done this; it just was more than usual for a couple days. Oh, I know all about neuropathy--have those little prickles going on in MY feet right now! I've taken gabapentin for years. I will make sure he's not hurting himself, though.
Louie seemed a little depressed yesterday morning, but perked up after his laser treatment early in the afternoon. He has been quiter when I've picked him up for pottying (hahaha! I love that my iPad knows how to spell both Gabapentin and pottying!). When I'm carrying him, though, he gets squirmy. He doesn't understand that he will be safest if he stays still when I'm holding him. His center of Gravity makes it tricky--being both heavy (not fat!) and very long (being a dachshund). I should measure him for you.
Today I will keep close track of what time he complains when being picked up. Maybe it's in between Tramadol doses.
Yesterday I gave him a Kong with about 1/2 tsp. of peanut butter in it. Kept him occupied for a very long time! Sometimes we just feel so stressed we don't remember even the simplest things. Thanks for being there to keep us on track.
|
|
|
Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Jan 23, 2015 11:22:13 GMT -7
Ann trust me, all of us here at Dodgerslist have had a dog with IVDD, so we know exactly how you feel. Every time one of my dogs has an episode I tell the other girls and we go over everything that I am supposed to be doing, because when it's your baby you forget everything you know for a day or so, all you have is fear. You have read this link on entertainment haven't you? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmPlace the crate near a window with a view, on the coffee table in front of couch where you sit. Place the crate so the dog will be in the middle of family activities, near your bed at night. Secure crate to a flat moving dolly (or put casters on plywood) to easily move the crate room to room. Fill a kong with a slight slather of soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Jan 24, 2015 14:20:41 GMT -7
Thanks, Debbie for your reassurance. For now things are going along okay. Now we just need to get through these next six weeks and see how he does at the end of it! ... Hi, friends-- Trying to upload a pic of Louie to your gallery. The first went fine--second one, it won't accept my Capcha, and I don't see a way to get a new one! Help! :-) Looks like both photos did upload. Thanks for checking!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 25, 2015 12:36:10 GMT -7
I see those two above pictures from earlier days of your handsome Louie... before this disc episode. Looks like they did upload.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Feb 8, 2015 14:00:17 GMT -7
Hi, all! I haven't updated lately: Louie's spirits continue to be high. I have to keep reminding myself that he's a dog, and that they experience life so differently from the way we do. When we go potty he is able to hold his weight on his hind legs. for pooping, he squats and I help support him. He doesn't always go when I take him out, which, of course, leads to the occasional soaking crate. That part gets a little frustrating--what are we to do if he doesn't go when we take him out just before we go to bed? He is able to hold his urine well--we no longer need to potty him every 3 hours, it's much closer to the timing before this episode.
my husband and I were away for almost a week (enjoying 15 inches of snow in Chicago!) and boarded him at our new vet's. That seemed like a good solution because they could make sure he got his meds, carry him out to potty, and just generally keep an eye on him. Although Dr. Andy isn't quite on board with the 8 weeks crate rest (he thinks we should start trying to stimulate his "walking" nerves), Louie was fine when we picked him up, and was extremely happy to see us!
his meds now: tapering off Pred and no Tramadol to see if he exhibits any signs of pain. So this is a testing period. Yesterday he had 5 mg Pred, and today none. I will give him one the next couple days, then off a day. So it's a slow weaning process.
Can we start with massage now, or should we wait until after crate rest to do all PT?
we've put a wire crate on top of his kennel, so during the day, and when he's alert, he can be up higher the better to see out the window and bark ;-), and feel more a part of things. It's also so much easier for me to get him out, and change bedding! At bedtime, he's happy to be in his den-like kennel.
oh, with one of the PT videos, I found a written explanation of how to pick up a dachshund. It was much easier for me to understand than the video alone. However, I've discovered the problem. It doesn't work very well for me because Louie is so much longer than my forearms! I will continue to practice to see if I can make it work anyway. The other night he successfully scratched his ear with one of his back feet! It wasn't easy, but he did it!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 8, 2015 17:16:44 GMT -7
Ann, such wonderful news about ear scratching, longer potty times and high spirits. Glad to hear you see the need to let the disc heal first before the start of any active PT. When there is active PT, there is a chance an early healing disc will have scar tissue easily disrupted. Tears to the disc means damage to the spinal cord. Louie is on a very good path to recovering his nerve function. Once off of all of his meds and there is no pain, then you can do some passive, very, very light PT, the info highlighted in PINK pertains to legs that are not yet walking: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmAre you making the last drink of the night at about 7pm. Last potty time at about 10pm? Are you setting him down on an old pee spot for inspiration at 10 pm? As long as you have a method to support both ends of Louie when you pick him up...that is not picking him up under the arms, that is fine. Also when carrying him his back should stay horizontal to the ground. See an alternative below. The video shows a very secure way to lift and carry as some dogs are quite wiggly and want to jump out of the arms, can't have that happening especially during a disc episode.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Feb 10, 2015 12:07:26 GMT -7
Gosh--I was sure thar I'd responded to this message, but it seems like the Quick Reply option wasn't there, so I sent from the box at the top of the page. Thanks for the photos of alternative carry styles. Louie is far too big for the one-handed carry; I use a position much like the two-handed one. Yes, I know that the important thing is to keep both ends supported!
And, we shouldn't start even light massage until he's off all meds--right?
Thanks again for your support--don't know how I'd have done it without your help!
Oh, I forgot to ask: what does ROM stand for Ann
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 10, 2015 13:52:02 GMT -7
ROM is passive exercise Range Of Motion.
It is best to know for sure all swelling in the spinal cord has been taken care of before the start of the very, very lightest of ROM, etc. The only way to know about swelling is to go off of all meds.
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Sept 17, 2019 11:47:38 GMT -7
We adopted our boy Louie, around this time in 2010. He was three years old. Less than six months later he went down with IVDD (the Dreaded Dachshund Disk Disease, as I call it.) Surgery with Dr. Isaacson (laminectomy 3/12/2011) After surgery, Louie came back almost 100%.
I can’t find the date, but probably around January, 2015, he had another bout of IVDD. This time we treated conservatively, and he came back to 85-90%.
Then, as he has aged, the nerves in his hindquarters have gradually stopped working. It started, I guess, with incontinence, then he started showing weakness in his back legs. When we left on our winter vacation in early December, 2018, he could still walk a little (and if he really wanted to), but when we returned, mid-January of this year, he was completely down. Since then we’ve been dealing with a down, incontinent boy.
Now he’s getting the wounds on his legs from dragging himself, UTI’s and sores on his penis from being in diapers too much. We’re doing what we can to keep him comfortable. I’ve started expressing his bladder to get as much urine out as possible, so he can be without a diaper. It’s time-consuming and expensive to care for him, but there’s so much more life to live! After all, he’s only 12 years old!
A drag bag is on order—we’ll see if he’s willing to move around in it...
Have any of you experienced this gradual loss of function like Louie has had. I don’t think i’ve Read about it in any of the literature...
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Sept 17, 2019 13:50:29 GMT -7
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Sept 17, 2019 19:33:42 GMT -7
Ann, was he seen by a vet at first signs of neuro diminishment Dec 2018. Was he crated? On meds? On any meds now? Showing signs of pain? SIGNS OF PAIN:
◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ◻︎ not their normal perky selves
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Sept 21, 2019 19:12:40 GMT -7
Life has been full. Not only does Louie keep me busy, but yesterday I had a wisdom tooth pulled, and I’ve been researching Hansen’s II. That does seem like what Louie is afflicted with, and there doesn’t seem to be much information out there on it. No, actually we’ve seen vets about Louie’s symptoms (infections, etc.) rather than his loss of function. That came about so gradually... one of you asked if we went to the vet in December 2018. No, because that was the end of many months’ progressive nerve loss. When we returned home in Late January of this year, we did seek out vets for “aqua-puncture” and laser therapy. The first session of acupuncture seemed like a miracle, but successive treatments didn’t help at all. We didn’t see much improvement with the laser therapy, either...
I’m quite sure he’s not in pain. He generally seems comfortable on our laps, in his kennel, or on our bed. He’s been a little depressed the last couple of days. My guess is he has another UTI. Sigh. We have an appt. on Monday. I’ve cut way back on his time in diapers—for instance right now he’s on a waterproof pad, chilling in my recliner with me.
Expressing him is getting a little easier, although none of the instructions work for him. I’ve yet to feel his bladder where it’s supposed to be!
His new drag bag arrived, and yes, he does move around in it easily. However, it’s fairly waterproof, and I think he gets hot and sweaty in it. Doesn’t help keep his penis area dry at all, so I don’t keep him in it for long. (I want to make him one of those T-shirt bags!) It does protect the wounds he gets from dragging his feet, though. We have been trying to keep him from scooting, but he’s awfully quick!
Lastly, yes, we are considering a cart. Our vet loaned us one of those adjustable ones, Walkin’ Wheels, but it’s not the right size for him. The wheel base is really wide, and our house is full of narrow spaces and corners. I’m thinking of ordering a refurbished one. It might be more cost effective, considering we might not have to use it for long. 😔 if what he has is Type II, the prognosis probably isn’t very good...
Guess this catches you up! I think I’ve answered all your questions. Romy, thanks for sending all the links. They kept me busy for hours!
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Sept 22, 2019 6:25:23 GMT -7
Ann, anytime a dog with IVDD experiences neuro loss, whether it's accompanied by pain or not, they should immediately be crated until they can be seen by a vet. A vet's visit would be necessary to determine whether the dog is having another disc episode. If Louie was having another disc episode when he first started showing signs of neuro loss, even if it was Hansen Type II, conservative care (8 weeks of strict crate rest) could have been done. An MRI is the only way to determine whether this is Hansen Type II. Until an MRI confirms that this is Hansen Type II, any sign of a new disc problem should be treated the same way as for Type I. If surgery is financially possible for you, that might be an option for Louie, even if it is Hansen Type II. If you're having difficulty expressing Louie, you should get a hands-on-your-hands demonstration by a vet. When the bladder is full, it fills the whole abdomen cavity so you may not be able to feel it. As you express, the bladder will get smaller and sometimes it will slip away, usually back towards the pelvic area, and you'll need to find it again. You mentioned that Louie lies on your bed. Even a paralyzed dog can drag himself off of a bed or a recliner. There are many discs in a dog's spine that can rupture and/or tear, causing pain. Carts are for outside use and do not work well inside. Most of them have a wide wheel base to make them stable so they don't tip over. I have a Walkin' Wheels for my Jeremy. If the cart fits, Louie should be able to stand in it properly with his legs in the stirrups, like in the photo below. www.handicappedpets.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/image090-768x576.jpgAs for your statement that you might not have to use the cart for long as if this is Hansen Type II, the prognosis isn't good, please know that IVDD, whether it's Type I or Type II, is not a fatal disease. Dogs, even if paralyzed, can have a wonderful life. www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm
|
|
|
Post by Ann & Louie on Sept 26, 2019 19:55:36 GMT -7
Gosh, I had spent quite a bit of time responding a few days ago, and it looks like it didn’t get to you. Maybe i’ll Put some energy into rewriting that note later, but for now: where did I see that great no-sew pattern for making a scooting bag out of a T-shirt sleeve?
If you could help me find it, that would be great!
Thanks—Ann
|
|