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Post by laurie on Apr 8, 2013 13:54:49 GMT -7
My pug Pierre was recently diagnosed with IVDD. He has 2 bulging discs in his neck and an arachnoid cyst on his back. I noticed him dragging his back paws and not jumping up anymore so I brought him to a neurologist. He was supposed to go for back and neck surgery tomorrow but he's not in pain and seems in good spirits. He's on steroids. I'm considering stalling the surgery. It's a big surgery and I'm scarred of the outcome. Can anyone help? Pierre is only 6 years old.  |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 8, 2013 18:49:24 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, my name is Pauliana what is your name? We can best help if you can give us specific details in regards to Pierre: Have you been doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad discs. -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Pepcid AC should be on your list. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving dogs 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. -- Currently can your dog move his legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? Is Pierre able to urinate on his own? If not while on a steroid, you would need to express his bladder every 2-3 hours to keep him dry. Did your vet give you a hands on lesson? Good tips and video to help learn this new skill: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm" If he can urinate on his own he will need to go every 2 or 3 hours while on the steroid which causes them to drink a lot. Carefully carry him outside keeping his back straight. -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Education will play an important roll in helping your pup, this is a very good overview. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm |
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Post by laurie on Apr 10, 2013 20:27:04 GMT -7
Thank you for responding so quickly. I actually responded but I guess it never sent???
Here are the answers to your questions...
My name is Laurie.
Pierre is not on strict crate rest. The dr didn't tell me he needed to be. He just said for Pierre to take it easy. No stairs, no jumping.
He doesn't seem to be in any pain.
Pierre can move around. His back legs drag a little when he walks and sometimes they cross. His tail mostly hangs straight down unless he's happy or excited. Then it curls up like a pig tail.
He urinates on his own. He's had a few accidents in the house but I'm not sure if it's related to the IVDD or the steroids.
He's eating, drinking, and pooping ok.
He's in good spirits and no pain that I can see. His surgery was supposed to be this week but I can't bare to put him through it if he's comfortable and happy. What are your thoughts? Should I wait till he's worse? Is it possible strict crate rest can help improve his condition?
Thanks so much!!!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 20:36:16 GMT -7
Laurie, the whole point of conservative treatment is to avoid surgery. I'm so very sorry yout vet is not IVDD knowledgable to know this. What this means for Pierre is that you must get up to speed on the disease, the meds and the treatment so no more mistakes are made. The best place to start is with "OVERVIEW: the essentials" and they work your way down to the blue button where the rest of our treasure trove of IVDD info is located: "Disc Disease 101+ core readings" www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmCan you please be specific on the exact names of meds, the dose in mg and how often they are given. If he is not in pain and is not worsening he may be a good candidate for conservative treatment IF you can commit to doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks. Here is the info you need to approach getting the recovery suite set up for Pierre asap tonight: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm#recoverysuite |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 10, 2013 21:13:51 GMT -7
Hi Laurie! What Steroids are being given to Pierre and the dosage and timing, please? Pierre is already showing by his legs crossing when he walks and dragging, that further damage is happening due to the discs compressing his spine. Please read the link to learn what is happening to Pierre. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmCrate rest for 8 weeks 24/7 except for potty time, is so important to prevent further damage to Pierre's spine and discs. Any time out of the crate is a dangerous time. The more he moves the more damage to his spine. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmConservative crate rest can help IVDD dogs heal, there are many success stories on our website. www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htmKeep in mind some dogs tend to be stoic and don't show they are in pain until it is totally out of control. My dog will go so far as to act like nothing at all is wrong while at the Vet. In fact he hides it from us too until it's unbearable. He went from just laying around in the evening to losing the ability to walk just overnight. I am sure he was hiding it as to not worry us.. His accidents in the house could mean he is starting to lose bladder control and that can happen as steroids increases drinking, but it could also be because of IVDD.. |
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Post by laurie on Apr 11, 2013 5:46:10 GMT -7
Pierre is on Dexamethosone. .5mg once a day. This is all wonderful info and I'm committed to trying conservative treatment before putting him through this surgery. He has 2 bulging discs in his neck and a cyst in his back. This means 2 surgerys at one time. Very scary!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2013 9:24:09 GMT -7
I'm very concerned that Pierre is not on any stomach protector. Dex is the strongest of steroids and well know in the medical community for the damage to the GI tract it can do. I would promptly address getting Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board that Pauliana mentioned to you on Monday. Pierre doesn't need any other problems on top of what he is already dealing with. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving dogs 5MG Pepcid AC every 12 hours. Ask your vet for the proper dose for Pierre. How much does he weigh? We give our approx 13-20 pound doxies 5mg 2x a day. North Carolina U. recognizes the high incidence of GI irritation in dogs with disc problems. The reasons are that pain and body changes are stresses. Just as humans can experience ulcers when under stress, dogs can also. NCU and 11+ hospitals working with NCU prescribe a GI protectant. Dogs presented to NCU with IVDD often develop GI upset whether they are given steroid medications or not. www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/tc/clinical_services/neuro/acute_disc.html |
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Post by laurie on Apr 16, 2013 7:43:06 GMT -7
Pierre has started his crate rest. My only question is when he is done with this round of steroids should I be refilling the prescription? Should he be taking steroids the entire time he is on crate rest?
Thanks!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 16, 2013 13:59:32 GMT -7
I will change the subject line to show you have started crate rest only as of today, is that right? Laurie, it definately is confusing as to all the parts of healing with a disc episode and when they happen, when meds are needed and when they are no longer needed. Short and sweet is: swelling = pain = more time on anti-inflammatory, pain med and stomach protector
no evidence of pain on going tapering off of Dex = continue taper to finish = medications of any kind no longer needed.
Please do learn more about the "swelling/inflammation" phase of healing www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm This is one disease where knowledge is Pierre's best defense when using these powerful meds. We are concerned for Pierre, as you have not let us know a stomach protector is on board. Is there a reason for the delay?
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