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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 9:54:12 GMT -7
Hi, My name is Shannon and I have a 5 year old Dachshund. She recently began yelping for unknown reasons to me so I took her the the vet and after and examination of her spine, found she has a neck injury without any neurological defects.
He prescribed her prednisone, tramaldol and methocarbamol. She was restricted from jumping on any furinture and was doing great. 6 days later she began crying and yelping for several minutes, then would get still but if she tried to move would yelp and cry out (loud). I took her to the ER and she was treated with IV pain med and put on strict cage rest, carry her out to potty and carry her back in (no neurological impairment). Two days later, while carrying her out to potty she began crying out in pain. I took her inside, got her comfortable in her cage and later she was fine. Later that night while carrying her outside,agian she began to scream out in pain. I got her inside, she just laid down and screamed in pain, off and on for an hour. I got her back in her cage and laid beside her on the floor until the meds kicked in and she was comfortable. I called her vet and he included gabapentin 3 times a day and increased the dose of tramadol. Yesterday, I did not pick her up at all. I let her out of her cage to use potty pads. but it takes her walking around several minutes to go use the bathroom. I cannot just lead her to the potty pads and her use them. However, she did not cry out once in 24 hours.
I dod not have the money for surgery and I am praying the cage rest will help her. I do not know how small the cage should be. Since I work all day and she is so thirsty I leave water in her cage so she is in a medium cage so she has room to urinate while I am gone if needed. Now, i worry she has to much movement in the cage.
This has make me a complete wreck. I cannot sleep or eat. What size cage should she be in? She walks fine, evens wants to jump on me, which I do not allow. I allow her 5-10 minutes to walk around and use the potty pads and I do not know if that is to much time out of her cage or not. I live in an apartment with rabbits and lots of other dogs which she want to chase if we go outside and I am very uncomfortable in carry her and this causes her pain
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pam
New Member
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Post by pam on Apr 4, 2013 10:27:46 GMT -7
I am so sorry your dog is going through this! I feel your pain as I am going through this right now with my pomeranian. I don't have the answers for you! My dog is on the same meds as yours but we have reached the max dose and are returning for MRI and possible surgery  I don't have the money either so I applied for a care credit and was accepted! I am learning it is alot harder with a neck issue as and little movement and they are in pain! read everything on this site,I found alot of great info and tips here!!! Good Luck Pam |
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 11:45:30 GMT -7
Thank you Pam. I will continue reading and good luck to you as well!
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 4, 2013 12:14:33 GMT -7
Hi Shannon, Here is a link to a video to show you how to pick up and carry your Dachshund..I hope this helps you and your dog. 5 to 10 minutes out of the crate is too long and increases the chance of further injury to her cervical disc.. Also she needs to be protected from your other pets. She is now very vulnerable.. youtube.googleapis.com/v/kyD2IW5m0qYWelcome to Dodgerslist! Our hope is that you will take on the duties of self education to be able to understand the IVDD enemy and take an active roll in working with the vet, be an integral part of making decisions based on a sound understanding. As quickly as time permits, begin to devour each of the articles in our Disc Disease 101 area. Your dog is going to be dependent on your abilities. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmStart with the article entitled "HOWs and WHYs of Conservative Treatment" which will be your road map for the next 8 weeks of crate rest. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmAdd this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm
In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions?
-- What is your dog's name?
-- What was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Pepcid AC - steroids Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlwww.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/stomachProtection.htmwww.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspx-- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail due when you do some happy talk? -- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood?
Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.htmlPlease read this info on cervical neck IVDD. This gives a lot of tips pertaining just to neck treatment and care. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmHere is a link to apply for Care Credit just in case. You can apply online. It's better to be prepared in case she does need surgery. Our Tyler needed surgery and we couldn't afford it either so we applied for Care Credit and it did help us manage this crisis. www.carecredit.com/apply/ |
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 13:19:11 GMT -7
Hi Paulina.
Missy first start yelling a little in pain when I picked her up on 3-23. I took her to the vet the following Monday on 3/25. She started Tamadol 25 mg every 8-12 hours for pain, metharbamol 125 mg every 8-12 hours for pain and prednisone 10mg 2x per day. She did fine until the following Sunday, 3-31. She started crying, very loud and for minutes at a time. I took her to the ER and they gave her IV pain med and wrapped her neck to limit movement until the following day. I started strict crate rest at that time. On Tuesday 4-1 I picked her up to take her out the way I was told to do by the ER vet and she cried out in pain, off and on for several minutes. I put her back in her crate and she was better several minutes later. I had given her meds right before taking her out. I called her Vet and he added gabapetin .5 mg 3 x per day and very strict crate rest. Later that night, I picked her up again to take her out to potty and she began yelping and crying for several minutes at a time. I got her back in her crate and stayed beside her until she felt better and fell asleep. She is not taking pepcid but I can certainly get some, however, does this interfere with the gabapetin? Needless to say, I will not pick her up and I let her out to use only potty pads as I live in an apartment complex and other dogs, people, and the rabbit running around make her go crazy trying to chase them. She has no neruological deficits. However she does not shake her head as hard or long right now.
She drinks so much water and I work all day that I leave water in her cage and she urinates in the cage so I clean it out everyday, however she uses the bathroom as normal when out side her cage. But she takes her time to the potty pads. I can lead her to them but she will not use them if I am standing there. I have to go away and she will use it. I do not sleep because I stay up at night and watch her that she is not in pain. I am exhausted and so worried she will not recover.
I keep the other dogs away from her. When she is out to use the potty pads I put the other dogs in a room. I do not know what else to do to make her potty any faster
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 14:38:24 GMT -7
She eats, drinks, wags her tail and is over all happy. She has an appointment for acupuncture next Thursday. No loss of movements at all and she urinates as usual.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 4, 2013 15:37:02 GMT -7
Hi Shannon!
Prednisone makes them very thirsty so they drink a lot to make up for that and of course urinate a lot as well.
Pepcid AC should be given 30 minutes prior to the morning medicines..Half a tablet every 12 hours. Missy doesn't need an Ulcer on top of all she is going through. It won't interfere with the Gabapentin. Tyler was on Gabapentin as well and our Vet at Purdue Veterinary Teaching Hospital insisted on the Pepcid AC. She said that most IVDD dogs are predisposed to acid problems and that is made worse with steroids and NSAIDS.
Please keep her vet informed as to her pain. Her medications can be adjusted to make sure she is pain free dose to dose. Tramadol is a short acting pain killer so every 8 hours is the best dosage. Healing can't start until pain is under control.
Keeping you and Missy in my thoughts..
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2013 18:03:31 GMT -7
It sounds like Missing is being under medicated IF you are giving Tramadol and methocarbamol every 12 hours. Neck pain needs to be dealt with aggressively. Let us know that you are giving those two pain meds every 8 hours punctually. Can you check the dose of gabapentin--- .5 mg is not a dose used with IVDD. Also let us know how much Missy weighs. What was the exact name of the IV pain medgiven at ER? Missy does not need another problem on top of dealing with her disc problem. We follow vets are are proactive. Did you specifically phrase the question in this way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. When taking her outdoors to potty, set up an ex-pen or some of that poke in the ground garden edging fencing in a 6 foot diameter area so Missy knows there will be no sniff fests going on. Set her down, allow 1-2 minutes. If she has not pottied, then pick her up and back to the recovery suite. Try again in an hour.   |
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 18:10:07 GMT -7
Missy's dose of tramadol was increased from 25 mg, half of a 50 mg tablet to 3/4 tablet every 6 hours. Its is. Gabapentin is 50 ml 3x daily. She will be on another week of predisone 10 mg 2 x daily then will start tapering down. How often should I let her out to potty?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2013 18:35:29 GMT -7
How often are you giving methocarbamol... at the more aggressive every 8 hours?
How much does Missy weigh?
While on pred you will likely need to take Missy out to potty every 3-4 hours. The increased thirst this med causes necessitates giving them more frequent potty breaks.
Neck discs can be much more painful and take longer to heal. Pain needs to be treated aggressively, so Missy can begin healing. Pain actually slows the entire healing process plus makes caring for her difficult.
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 18:58:37 GMT -7
Missy weighs 15 lbs. Buprenex at
.3 ML IV was given on Sunday. She is taking the methocarbamol 3 x per day. Vet would not increase that due to fear of liver damage. I am so worried over her that I cannot eat or drink or sleep but she does not sound near as bad as some of the stories I have read, which gives me hope of recovery for her
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 19:03:06 GMT -7
She is whining to get out of her cage. I try to make her just lay down and relax. I am fearful she will aggravate her injury
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2013 19:24:30 GMT -7
Whining is a behavior problem that can be quite irritating. She may sit quietly but not jump against the side of the crate. Let us know if she is being rambuctious or just whinning. Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will learn which of the behaviors receive reward. Consider some of these ideas: - Many members have found a pet stroller
to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from
room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however,
should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on
strollers:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm
- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate.
- Check out some mild calmers such as
Using
any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work
best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't
immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty
prescription sedatives.
Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/ [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below:
- ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets or tinyurl.com/atxc8l3
- Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine.
www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure]
- Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com
- At night, try placing the crate on a sturdy bedside table to sleep next to you.
- During
the day try the coffee table or the dinning room table so there will be
a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the
house from a high.
- Make the crate or ex-pen more cozy by
draping a blanket over part of the top. Play classical music or one of
the wildlife TV shows.
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 4, 2013 19:57:22 GMT -7
Thank you so much for all of this advice. I am rewarding bad behavior. I will stop asap and look into some of the calming agents you listed. Do I need to get up in the middle of the nite every 3-4 hours to let her out to potty? I have been leaving water in the crate during the day while I am at work. Is this OK? During the evening I offer her water, I do not leave water in her crate over night. Close to 48 hours without a pain yelping/crying out event. Praise Jesus!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2013 20:03:40 GMT -7
Shannon 48 hours and no pain....this IS good news!!!! I would give last drink of the night at 8pm. Take her out to to potty right before you go to bed at 10pm. She should be able to make it til 6-7am in the morning. The body naturally produces less urine during the dark hours. It is trial and error here....you may have to give her a potty break say at 5am and then go back to sleep. Let us know how the potty thing works out.
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Post by Cindy & Sophie on Apr 6, 2013 4:29:10 GMT -7
Hi Shannon, my name is Cindy, just wanted to say that my dog, Sophie, does not like being in her crate, either. I use the Composure Mini Bite-sized chews made by Vetri- Science. They have been a life saver, especially at night! We all have been getting better rest! Have a blessed weekend  |
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 6, 2013 11:31:56 GMT -7
Hi Cindy
I put an eeg type mattress topper in her crate and she is soo much more relaxed. She has not whinnied much at all now. She has not cried out in pain in over 72 hours, praise Jesus! I have been able to cut her pain meds back to 8 hours now. I will follow up with her vet on Monday and see when we will start reducing the prednisone which she has been on Max dose for almost 2 weeks now.
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 8, 2013 19:37:31 GMT -7
Paula,
Missy is tapering from 10 mg of ▼ prednisone 2 x per day to one. She began panting so I offered her water. Is this a sign of pain? She stopped after she drank a little. What should I expect to see while lowering the dose. She has been on it 2 weeks.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 8, 2013 20:17:21 GMT -7
Panting can be a side effect of prednisone and tramadol. You can put a fan near her crate but not pointed at her to help with the panting. Water should always be inside the crate and accessbile. At night perhaps enough for little drink if she needs it.
On the taper of pred is the time to be particularly observant for any hint or suggestion of pain--- shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move the body, tight hard tummy. Are you also backing of pain meds to have a clear picture of swelling and pain?
How's the potty thing working out...
We've got our fingers cross for a pain free taper off of Pred!
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Post by sdaily34 on Apr 9, 2013 4:26:28 GMT -7
I slept beside her last night and she is restless. I ordered a calmer but it has not arrived yet. Potty times are OK but it seems I have to offer several potty breaks for her to go. That makes me nervous because I am fearful when she is out of her cage. I still give tramadol every 8-9 hours, gabapentin 2 x per day and muscle relaxer 2-3 x per day. Should I back off on those too? I'm fearful she will cry
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 9, 2013 7:51:44 GMT -7
Since pain meds (gabapentin, methocarbamol and Tramadol) mask pain, it would give a clear picture to also back off or stop when on the taper. Most vets do this so they know right away if there is still swelling or not. Discuss with your vet. pain = swelling = more time needed on pred no pain = swelling is gone = finish taper and no meds at all are needed signs of pain to watch for on the taper are: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy.
Which calmer did you order? Do give us feedback on how it works.
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I don't have the money either so I applied for a care credit and was accepted! I am learning it is alot harder with a neck issue as and little movement and they are in pain! read everything on this site,I found alot of great info and tips here!!! Good Luck
