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Post by Dianna & Tasha on Jun 17, 2014 7:22:38 GMT -7
Hi I'm new here, my names Dianna. I have two Shih-poos. One is 4 the other is 3. Our oldest (Tasha) went to the groomer on saturday morning ( today is tuesday) we picked her up in the afternoon and she was fine. Till we went to walk out of the place she had a reverse sneezing attack. My husband tried to massage her and walk her out of the way of the people behind us. She eventually stopped but then wouldn't jump in the car. We had to lift her. Her chest, front shoulder area, and neck area was just trembling. We thought she might be cold, but felt warm. She laid down most of that evening and slept through the night. The next morning she woke up to greet my husband and I (she typically sleeps with us, but during the night she jumped down and got in her crate) and when she stretched back she yelped so we took her to the ER DR. near us. They did an X ray. Told us all looked fine and gave us 5 days worth of tramadol. So she rests Sunday. Monday we wake up and she is the exact same. I talk to the vet she usually goes to see and drop off the x rays. He says he sees a calcified disc between c3/c4. so we take her in that evening and he shows us the disc and explains about IVDD. He says that that disc could be causing the pain in her neck or it may not. He gave us more tramadol, rimadyl, and gabetenin(sp?). Said to give her 2 weeks and see how shes feeling. If not better we may have to look at surgery or putting her down. (at this point i'm bawling) but then he says that we might be able to look at laser therapy as an option as well. That is pretty much the story.
I am frustrated since we don't know WHY she is in pain. As per her behavior, she still walks (tho a little slower and slightly curved in back) she wags her tail and wants food, she drinks water normally. she still goes and does her business. (though we are carrying her anywhere that requires steps) I noticed last night it was a little harder for her to poop, but she did it. she moves her neck and head around, she can turn and look, only issue is when she bends her neck/head she stiffens. We can pet her neck and mostly she is fine, sometimes if we pet on the side or towards the front she flinches. I asked the vet if she might have pulled/torn/strained something when she had her reverse sneezing attack, because she gets very stiff and she stepped out of the groomers while it was happening ( i mean humans can throw their whole back out from one sneeze), since he said the disc might not be an issue, but he says he doubts it. I don't know if I agree with that or not. It might be unusual but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. They only thing is for me, is that she has always been agile and flexible fun little dog, no signs of IVDD EVER, so how come after a routine non-tramatic trip to groomer would suddenly this happen?? any advice questions comments would be MUCH appreciated. Thank you.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 17, 2014 7:43:52 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Dianna. Please let your dog know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmEuthanasia is NOT a treatment for IVDD so please disregard your vet's comment about that and put it out of your mind. There are two types of treatment for IVDD - surgery or conservative. Here's a link you should read to learn when surgery should be considered: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmThink of the crate as a cast for the spine. I'm not sure by your comment that you "carry her everywhere that requires steps" whether you mean going up and down steps or just steps as in walking. Tasha must be carried everywhere, only carried in and out of the crate to do potty with a few steps as possible while doing potty and then crated again. She is still in pain - stiffening when she bends her neck/head IS a sign of pain. Please contact your vet ASAP to inform him of your observations so he can adjust the pain meds. Often with neck injuries, Methocarbamol is included for muscle spasms. We will need to know the dosage of all meds before we can give further advice about getting the pain under control. IVDD is a lifelong disease. At any time, a degenerated disc can tear or rupture, placing pressure on the nerves of the spine with the possibility of nerve damage. That is what's causing Tasha's pain. The pain meds will mask the pain while the anti-inflammatory will get the swelling down so the damaged disc is no longer pressing on the nerves. That can take a week to a month to accomplish. Can you give us a bit more in essential information about your dog: 1. When was the date you saw the vet and what date did you start doing the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? I added today's date as the date you started strict crate rest as it doesn't appear that has been implemented yet. 2. What are the exact names, dose in mgs and frequency of all meds? How much does your dog weigh? 3. Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before the dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board. Here are some important tips in dealing with cervical issues, such as raising the food/water dishes so she doesn't have to bend her neck down, softening kibble, etc.: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmLaser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. Again, please be sure to start reading and learning about IVDD at www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm so you can become Captain of your dog's health care team and work together with your vet. Healing prayers for Tasha. |
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Post by Dianna & Tasha on Jun 18, 2014 3:42:25 GMT -7
Hello,
Thanks for your response. She went to the Vet Monday night 6/16 and we have been doing strict crate rest since then. The meds she take is:
tramadol 50mg half a pill twice a day.
gabapentin 100mg half a capsule twice.
rimadyl 75mg half a pill once a day. She weighs
16lbs.
Today is the 18th Wednesday and she is still in a lot of pain. She really didn't even want to walk out of her crate for her food. so i brought it to her and hand fed her, which she ate. The main source of the trembling/quivering is her front right area where her chest, neck, and leg meet. When it happens it effects her entire neck and shoulder area. She still will walk, but with an arch and not for long.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 18, 2014 8:47:12 GMT -7
Dianna, the pain meds are clearly not yet right. It takes feedback to the vet so he knows there is still more adjusting to be done. Have no patience with pain. It should be under control within an hour and stay that way dose to dose of pain meds when the RX is correct for Tasha. Pain deters the healing process so it just can not be allowed. For a 16 pound dog 25mg of tramadol 2x/day is a very light dose. If not Rx'd at least 3x a day tramadol is not likely to control pain. Same with gabapentin it should be Rx'd 3x a day to give the kind of pain control Tasha needs. Often with neck discs much pain comes from a difference source...that of muscle spasm. So I would advocate for getting methocarbamol on board as well. CAVEAT: It is important to do your own reading about meds so you can participate in discussions. The reason for you to not self prescribe is your vet has responsibility for the health of your dog in meds he prescribes based on his exam, the health history of your dog, how meds interact, not things we or you might know as we are not veterinarians. If you are not satisfied with how your vet handles this disc episode, then there is a need to hire a different vet who is comfortable in treating a disc episode. vasg.org/g_drugs.htm#GABAPvasg.org/t_drugs.htm#TRAMwww.petplace.com/drug-library/methocarbamol-robaxin-v/page1.aspxMarjorie gave you the links for the extra things you can be doing to help with a neck disc at home. Feeding inside the crate with bowls raised to head height is an important step to limiting movement of the body and of the neck. Let us know you have implemented those tips. Here's that link again:http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm  |
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Post by Dianna & Tasha on Jun 19, 2014 8:52:42 GMT -7
Thank you. She actually has been acting more like herself. She's still stiff when she moves certain ways but the shaking isn't as bad. My main question is how do I know this isn't a muscle/nerve issue versus a disc problem? because I have had two different vet tell me two different things.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 19, 2014 9:16:21 GMT -7
As damage to the spinal cord (nerves) increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions . When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order.
1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails scuffing floor
4. Paws knuckle
5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down)
6. Bladder control is lost
7. Tail wagging with joy is lost
8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function
Pain is usually observed with more than one sign: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, head held high or nose to the ground, not normal perky self?
If she is not shaking due to being cold, then with a disc episode you can likely be assured that shaking is due to her being in pain.
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Post by Dianna & Tasha on Jun 30, 2014 7:20:40 GMT -7
Hi everyone, hopefully I'm posting on the right area. I had posted in conservative, since we were trying that, but after two weeks of no real progress we changed vets and she recommended a neurologist. So Saturday the 28th we went and Tasha had surgery. They did surgery on the offending disc between c3 and c4 and also did fenestration (sp?) on the other discs in the neck since they did look a little abnormal. She transitioned into oral meds sunday night. And they said she was doing well. But sunday morning they said she couldn't walk without assistance. Now this morning (monday) I spoke with the neurologist and he said that she is getting up and taking a few steps without help. Now she was walking and moving and wagging her little nub before the surgery. She had deep pain sensation and actually was acting her best right before surgery (go figure). I would assume that this is a temporary thing since she is improving; probably from swelling or lack of blood flow? Maybe from having her spinal cord touched I would assume is tramatic and could cause it? But she will regain ability to walk like she was before surgery on Saturday right? I mean I wouldn't think that it would make her worse?? I know I'm probably over worrying but I'm just wondering if this has happened to anyone else. And they said she is in good spirits, eating, and going to bathroom on her own.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 30, 2014 9:52:03 GMT -7
It can take about 2 weeks for all the surgery-caused swelling and temporary neuro setbacks to reside. Dr. Isaacs has given us answers to the questions we all have had about surgery. This is good reading for you too: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmAlso you'll want to start a list of questions so during the excitement of discharge day all is answered. Here's a list to get you started: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmLet us know when Tasha is home, what meds she comes home with if any, what the surgeon directs for PT and for crate rest. |
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Post by Dianna & Tasha on Jul 2, 2014 3:32:51 GMT -7
Good morning all! My girl is home!! So glad she is back with us.  So they sent us home with: Predisone [mgs??] 1/2 tab every 12hrs, then tapering after 3 day cycles gabapentin [mgs??] 1 capsule every 12hr tramadoll [mgs??] 1/2 tab every 12 hr diazapan [mgs??] 1/2 tab every 12hr She is not in pain. She moves her neck and head fine except for just being tired and drugged up. She will walk but is very unsteady. When we take her outside we cut an old sheet so we can use it to support her back end. In two weeks we go back to neuro for stitches removal. They told us to call anytime with any issues. They have been great to work with. I noticed this morning when Tasha woke up and we carried her downstairs that her neck was shaking very lightly. Almost like a chill, but she wasn't stiff or anything. Am I right to assume that this is still left over from prior to surgery? I figure as long as I don't notice it getting worse then it's probably fine right?Also...the walking thing is probably what worries me the most but I"m *sure* that it will return to normal once she heals and gets stronger. I love this little girl! Thanks guys! |
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 2, 2014 7:05:09 GMT -7
I'm glad your girl is home and I'm sure you all are very glad of that, too!
The shaking in her neck is a sign of pain. You should let the surgeon know what you're observing this morning so her meds can be adjusted. Please let us know the dosage in mgs of each medication. Tramadol works best when given consistently every 8 hours as it has a short half life.
Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before the dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.
What directions were given for crate rest and physical therapy? Good job on using a sling to support her hind end.
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So they sent us home with: