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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 19, 2014 7:19:34 GMT -7
Hello new here! My dog is Wilbur, he is an 8 year old dachshund. About 3 weeks ago, I noticed he wasn't walking well. We took him to the vet. She thinks he has a back issue sent us home with Rimadyl, tramadol and ,methocarbonal to treat it. I found this site and took it upon myself to start crate rest. It's been two weeks now. My question is that since I've started this I've notice his condition worsen. From walking to barely getting up at all. Is this normal? please help. Thanks
Shaun |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 19, 2014 8:31:29 GMT -7
Shaun, welcome to Dodgerslist. With a bit more information we'll be better able to advise you. Did you start crate rest two weeks ago on June 5ish and just now you are seeing he is barely able to get up? What are the meds he is currently on, the dose in mg's and how often you give each. Has there been a recent change from the original Rx? How much does he weigh? Anti-inflammatories can increase GI tract damage. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmSo that we are on the same page about the 8 weeks of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. that means no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- Eating and drinking OK? How are poops today- normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood? -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? do the paws knuckle under. Can he wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. So glad to hear you are reading about IVDD. Do make sure in the next couple of days you can follow all the links to become a savvy IVDD dog owner. This page is a very good overview on conservative treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmLook forward to your answers and supporting you and Wilbur. |
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 19, 2014 10:16:12 GMT -7
Hi Paula. Yes I started around June 5 with crate rest. His weight is 20.8 lbs. He is currently on
50 mg tram 2x a day
125mg of methocarbenol 2x a day and
half a rimadyl tab not sure what the mg are as I am typing this from work.
Yes 100% only out to potty, how long do you keep him out for if he doesn't go? He trembles a little in the morning , I am guessing because the meds wore off. He is eating and drinking but very little. He pooped two days ago and it looked normal to me. He does a little wobble then falls on his butt. Still wags his tail.I have done the laser therapy 3 times it helps for a day. I am going to a different vet tomorrow that specializes in neurology. I spoke to him on the phone today, He suggested stopping the rimadyl immed to get him on steroids soon.
Shaun |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 19, 2014 11:02:12 GMT -7
His pain meds are not right for a 20lbs dog. If tramadol is not given at least 3x aday it likely will not fully control pain. Please read up on typical pain meds so Wilbur does not have to needlessly suffer. I'm VERY concerned about the not eating/drinking sign! His stomach has not been protected. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way today asap:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID and thereafter every 12 hours. Pepcid is generally considered a safe-over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for a healthy dog and good insurance. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would...Wilbur is already having indications of GI tract problems. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep your dog's aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash will control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! A couple of minutes ought to be enough time to potty, if not, pick up and carry back to recovery suite... try again in an hour.  Be up on the danger of switching classes of anti-inflammatories (NSAID <->steroids) IF it is deemed an emergency to dispense with a 4-7 day washout because neuro functions are being lost rapidly, then double stomach protection (Pepcid AC + sucralfate) is a must. REad more here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm |
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 19, 2014 15:27:13 GMT -7
Paula, Wilbur had eaten all his food today. There is no restriction keeping him from pepcid. I will get some. He pottied in his crate today. I put fresh towels in when I got home. Overall he seems to be in good spirits today when I took him outside to potty. One thing I did notice is only the back right leg has no function. He will be seeing a neurologist tomorrow. I will try the belt to hold him up. Thank you for your help, I will let you know how the visit goes
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member 
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135 
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Jun 20, 2014 2:54:31 GMT -7
Hi Shaun,
my name is Lola and my dog Hurley has also had problems with his back right leg! Eventually, with time, it has gotten better. Please know there is no time limit for nerves to heal - which is good news. Hence, do not be worried if you do not see improvement in the short term. And, there are passive exercises you can do with Wilbur, BUT only when he is off all meds and there is no more pain, so NOT now. At this stage, concentrate on keeping him pain free and in 100% crate rest. If he can wobble it means the leg would have some function? Or has it become worse than it was? Taking him for laser treatment can indeed help, you may also want to inquire about acupuncture or electro-acupuncture, which can also help to kick start healing, if it is in your budget. However, the key most important thing for Wilbur is now rest!!
Let us know what the neurologist says. I'm glad to hear he is eating now, it's a good sign.
Best, Lola
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 20, 2014 18:01:53 GMT -7
Thank you Lola, Update, last night Wilbur was paralyzed and could not walk. This morning even with the meds he was showing pain. I rushed him to the neurologist. He said in his case that he was still showing some feeling in his legs when pinched. He said that we diid surgery he'd give him about an 80% chance of walking again. I opted to do this. Wilbur had come out of surgery at 8:30 tonight. The neurologist said that hehad one ruptured disc and everything cleaned up very nice. I have not seen him yet as I have my wife in the hospital right now as well. I will give updates as soon as I can. Thank you everyone for your support.
Wilbur and Shaun
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 20, 2014 20:22:15 GMT -7
Glad to hear the surgeon felt the surgery went well. Look forward to hearing your next update. Best wishes for your wife too!
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 23, 2014 5:41:39 GMT -7
Update. We went to see Wilbur yesterday. He was heavily medicated. I noticed his tail twitch slightly back and forth. Is this a good sign? The vet said this morning that Wilbur could feel his toes. I don't know how much at this point but I am overwhelmed with joy hearing this. I tried to post this earlier but when I came back I didn't see it posted so here it is again!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 23, 2014 7:11:45 GMT -7
Very good report! The body is pretty amazing in its ability to self repair nerves. While no one can tell you how long it takes, it is quite predicable the order of repair. For us humans to know if some movement was due to reflexes or actually directed by the brain and a message then traveled down the spinal cord to the body part, we need to see some sort of head level involvment. So tail wags BECAUSE he was happy to see (head level) you. Next will likely come return of bladder control proved with the sniff and pee test. Place him on an old pee spot, let him sniff ( head level). If he then releases urine, maybe also attempts to squat, you have proof of bladder control. Leaking on you when lifted or urine leaks in bedding are indication bladder control has not yet returned, so then a dog is manually expressed.
Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord:
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. <-- Wilbur is here
3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 23, 2014 7:30:36 GMT -7
Paula, Even if its a tail twitch back and forth? Only about an inch each way?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 23, 2014 7:41:23 GMT -7
if it was because he was happy....moved tail because he saw you, heard you.
Tail movements related to potty times are normally due to reflexes and not brain directed.
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 24, 2014 4:20:48 GMT -7
Wilbur is home. The vet said he could feel all toes yesterday. He slept most the day when we got him home. We expressed his bladder which was pretty easy to do. He drank a lot of water last night but will not eat. Paula what suggestions do you have to help him eat? I tried chicken, dog treat, peanut butter. These are things he liked but has no interest in at this point.
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Jun 24, 2014 5:10:25 GMT -7
Hi Shaun,
I'm SO HAPPY to hear Wilbur is regaining sensation in his toes! That is really, really good news. And hurray for managing to express him without trouble! Latest when he starts to consciously wag his tail (and I just FEEL it he will, just hold on!), it will be the time to try the sniff & pee test as instructed by Paula.
Wilbur must be really tired after all that has happened so not a surprise that he slept all day. It could also be because of the medication - is he on something now (pain control, stomach protection...)? Please tell us the dose in mg's and how often you give each?
Did they tell you if he ate at the clinic? You could try boiling chicken in water and then offering him just the broth (let it cool first, obviously). If he drinks in general, he might be interested in it, and it would have some nutrients at least. You could then add some pieces of chicken in the broth and keep going a bit like that until you get him to eat something else, too. In any case, please report back to the vet if he continues not to eat anything at all! Not eating could have something to do with the medications he is on (if any).
Hugs, Lola
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 24, 2014 5:23:06 GMT -7
Hi Lola thanks for the response. They only have him on
tramadol 50 mg every 8 hours and
125 mg methocarbonal twice a day.
I just spoke to the vet and he told me to get some hills a/d food or I could try baby food with a syringe or baster. He is also calling me in a script for an appetite booster.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 24, 2014 13:05:23 GMT -7
Shaune do you see any signs of pain after moving, nearing the next dose of pain meds that might account for not eating? shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, , not normal perky self?
Do let us know the name of the appetite booster. I agree with Lola on that warmed meat broth. YOu can do the chicken or even hamburger. Boil a hamburger patty, cool, discard the disc of fat that rises to the surface. Most dogs LOVE beef broth and some of the hamburger meat too.
You know dogs are like people they get stressed with changes in routine where the stomach produces more acids, causing upset, ulcers,etc. Check with the vet about 5mg of Pepcid AC (famotidine) as a helpful acid reducer.
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Jun 25, 2014 1:12:23 GMT -7
Hi Shaun, yes, baby food could also work with a syringe - all of these, including the hamburger patty Paula mentioned, are worth trying. Whatever he is willing to take, just as long as he starts eating. A dog can go a day or so without eating, sometimes even two if very sick, but that's the maximum. Let us know what the situation is: is he now eating? any pain? name of appetite booster? Pepcid onboard? water intake OK?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Lola
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 25, 2014 3:57:01 GMT -7
We got Wilbur to eat some. He had some chicken broth,some baby food and a little royal canin recovery. He is drinking a ton of water. He does not show any signs of pain. He seems depressed at the moment. He just wants to lay around. When I sit him up he will tip over to his side. Is this normal 4 days after surgery?
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Jun 25, 2014 7:57:23 GMT -7
Hi Shaun, I'm so happy to hear that Wilbur is eating and drinking now - I've been thinking about the two of you today. Now, please observe any change in his bowel movements since you have "changed" his diet and report back if anything seems off. Can you elaborate on "depressed" - what do you mean? Does he pay attention when you talk to him? When someone comes into the room? He may not be able to wag his tail or move his legs, but what about his eyes? Does he seem at all interested in looking around? Have you placed the crate so that he can see what is happening? Remember that he must be very confused now - dogs usually do not feel comfortable showing that they are injured in any way so it would not be a surprise if he does not act exactly like he would normally. Talk happy talk to him, make him feel like he is no less important to you now than before. For how long will he still be on pain medication? As for sitting up, at this stage, it is early days so I would not recommend making him do anything that he does not feel like doing or is not capable of doing. What instructions did the clinic give you? Did you get instructions on how to do some physiotherapy at home with him? Please read this: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm and know that usually passive exercises can be started immediately (i.e. within the first few days) following successful surgery. Obviously, you need to start slow, maybe only 3 minutes couple of times a day and very gentle movement, he should show no discomfort or pain. He can lie on his side when you do it, that is how I've done it with my dog. The first week is always the most difficult and it is perfectly understandable that Wilbur is not yet able to do much of anything. My Hurley has had 3 IVDD surgeries. Every recovery has been different, it depends on the type of injury in the spine, how long it's been there, how well the surgeon/neurologist has been able to decompress the spinal cord and remove the ruptured disc material etc. Even when he regained leg movement, he was tipping over a lot in the beginning. PT exercises have helped a lot, especially during the first and second months of recovery. It's also something fun to do together since long walks and other activities are still out of the question at that stage. It's a long road ahead so little steps at a time - but please know the worst is behind you now that surgery is done. I can warmly recommend you to keep a recovery diary for Wilbur, i.e. writing down every day how he is progressing. In a weeks or two weeks time it will be nice to look back and see how far you've come. For now for example, you could write: "Wilbur started EATING again!!" Hugs to you both and let us know how it's going, Lola |
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 27, 2014 7:02:32 GMT -7
Wilbur had a good day yesterday. He is eating well now. Last night and today he is panting in pain still. After pain meds he is fine. Is this normal 6 dys out to be experiencing a good amount of pain yet?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 27, 2014 8:04:42 GMT -7
I would get with the surgeon to let him know the pain meds are not right. They are likely not lasting long enough if he stops painting once he gets pain meds again in his system. Never have any patience with pain.... if things don't seem right, then you are the ears and eyes for the surgeon... he needs your feedback.
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jun 28, 2014 5:44:35 GMT -7
Paula
After speaking with the surgeon yesterday. We were given
100 mg gabapentin prescription.
After giving Wilbur one he slept like a baby through the night. I am having my wife take him to the surgeon today just to look him over and make sure everything is healing as planned.
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Melissa & Deucy
New Member
Our sweet, precious girl…fight on, Deucy!
Posts: 51
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Post by Melissa & Deucy on Jun 28, 2014 10:34:12 GMT -7
thinking of you and your wilbur. our Deucy had surgery in Feb. and she has recovered well. We continue to see progress everyday. when she had surgery we were given tramadol and gabapentin..and those two meds together worked well. I know this is a scary and stressful time, but you have come to the right place. This site is amazing and the support truly got me thru one of the worst times. Your pup will be better in no time. one day at a time. lots of hugs!
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Post by Barb & Ollie on Jul 10, 2014 12:38:29 GMT -7
Shaun, I agree with Melissa, this site is wonderful and so very educational! My Ollie had surgery done on June 19th. When we went for his follow-up check-up and to remove staples this past Tuesday. When the vet had me put him on the floor he started wobbly walking! His left foot is very weak at this time. The rehab doctor gave me strengthening exercises to do with him and we work on them faithfully. Everything you are going through is Very Normal. Take it day by day and best wishes to Wilbur.
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jul 11, 2014 5:17:53 GMT -7
Thank you all for your support. Wilbur had his sutures removed Tuesday. He has DP sensation. He has little tail movement at the moment. We do his PT daily. His attitude is great and he is pain free. One day at a time. We are going to start water therapy this week.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 11, 2014 7:44:02 GMT -7
Nice report Shaun. Are you manually expressing his bladder? Does his bedding stay dry?
Have you seen any movement in his back legs at all, exclusive of movements at potty time?
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Jul 21, 2014 4:32:30 GMT -7
Update: Wilbur is urinating on his own! I took him outside last night, held his backside up as he walked around. He sniffed a little then kinda squatted down and peed. No voluntary leg movement yet, but if I pinched the webbing between his toes he looks at me and will start kicking his leg until I stop.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 21, 2014 4:45:20 GMT -7
What wonderful news, Shaun! I'm so happy for you both. That's a great sign of nerve healing going on. Keep up the good work!  |
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Post by Shaun & Wilbur on Aug 2, 2014 16:48:40 GMT -7
wilbur is starting to push off his back right leg!!!!!  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 2, 2014 19:11:29 GMT -7
That Wilbur is following classic textbook order of nerve function return. Go Wilbur!!!
Congratulations on Wilbur being graduated from crate rest!
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