Shari's Sophie 5/10 conservative

Welcome to Dodgerslist. We are a small and friendly group just going by first names. Mine is Paula what is yours?

All meds can have side effects so we only want to use them til they have completed their purpose.
During the time on the anti-inflammatory the pain meds do need to be adjusted so that there is no pain surfacing dose to dose of pain relief medications. Pain deters healing.

Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a test taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds (tramadol) are also stopped or backed off too.

Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred, pain meds and Pepcid AC is needed.

If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to completion. Then no meds at all are needed. Disc healing will continue for the remainder of the 8 weeks. Nerves can continue to self heal…think in terms of months.

We'd like to better support you, can you fill us in a bit more:
-- What was the date you saw the vet and 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for this current disc episode?  Guessed it might have been May 11?

-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy?  IF there are any signs of pain then of course it would clearly not be the time to start a prednisone test taper.  But instead let your vet know asap that other pain meds are needed on board.  More detail here on pain meds used with IVDD:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm

Prednisone can increase GI tract damage. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds:
www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm

-- Eating and drinking OK? How are poops today- normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

-- Currently can your  move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? Keep in mind the very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage will be necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all pain meds and no more signs of pain The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk .
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm

-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

-- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet.
ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html
www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.

Look forward to learning more about Sohpie with your answers.  You will want to learn more about IVDD and this is really a wonder page to start with.  We hope in the next couple of days you will have been able to follow all the links to be a savvy IVDD dog owner about conservative treatment:    www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm

Shari, nerve deteriorate, loose function as the disc continue to press on the spinal cord. Pressured nerves don't like it, it causes them to die and result in our observing diminishing functions.

Now is not the time to be tapering Prednisone when you are observing neuro functions being lost. It will be up to you to quickly learn how pred is used, how a taper is conducted so you can look out for Sophie's best interests, get on the phone asap right now and give feedback to the vet on what you are seeing. Did the neuro diminishment coincide about the time of the pred taper?

Can she still move her legs at all exclusive of any movement during potty time?

On a taper pain meds are pulled back to give a very quick picture on how swelling is doing in the spinal cord and if necessary to get back on the original dose asap if any hint of pain shows. This taper is being done in the dark, pain meds are still on board. there is increasing nerve damage going on another sign that it is not time to taper pred.

Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 7-30 days before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain.

Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred, pain meds and Pepcid AC is needed.

As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions . When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order.
1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails scuffing floor
4. Paws knuckle
5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down)
6. Bladder control is lost. She leaks on you when lifted and you find urine leaks in bedding. A lesson on expressing would be needed asap. More about expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm
7. Tail wagging with joy is lost
8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for successful surgery. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12/24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap.

Would surgery be a consideration for your family?

Let us know what the your vet or an ER vet says about neuro diminishment and getting back on the original dose of pred for a bit longer.

So there has been no increase of neuro damage since May 10? No recent loss of neuro function? Realistically 4 weeks is likely a drop in the bucket for expectations of time for nerves to heal. 8 weeks of crate rest is to allow the disc to heal. Nerve healing may or may not come during that 8 weeks. Here at Dodgerslist we see all the time that nerves can take more like months to heal... even some owners reporting 11 mos or more.

So on what basis did this vet say now all of a sudden the chances of walking dropped to 25%? Did she show you on her crystal ball cause unless she took an MRI or opened up Sophie to see what is going on in the spinal cord it is all guess work. Only Sophie's body knows the answer and how long it will take to heal nerves. IVDD is a hard disease because it require patience on our part...something we humans do not find easy. It is now thought that if there are 10% of the descending neurons working, there is potential for the spinal cord to heal enough to bring back function.

I can tell the main reason you are so upset is you have not yet had time to really get into the necessary reading about this disease...the unknown is simply a very scary place. Taking the word of professionals seems like the right thing to do. But not with IVDD, it requires of you asking why, how do you know, doing your own reading.. not all vets know IVDD. Dr. Nancy Kay, DVM, ACVIM highly recommends questioning everything. "Gone are the days when you simply followed your vet's orders and asked few, if any questions. The vet is now a member of your dog's health-care team, and you get to be the team captain!" www.speakingforspot.com/PDF/Medical%20Advocacy%20101.pdf

We humans also have a very different perspective on handicaps. Dogs on the other hand absolutely know they are handiCAPABLE. It does not matter how they get from point A to B. It does not matter if they need a little assist from a wheelchair while waiting on more nerve repair to take place after the 8 weeks of rest has been completed. If they have a warm bed, food and the love of their owners that is what makes them happy.

-- So start your reading program here to become the savvy IVDD owner Sophie needs: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm
-- Take control of your emotions and instead allowing your mind to live on the dark side make every effort to find the good things going on in the moment. Such as the good care, the 100% STRICT rest you are giving Sophie's disc, her happy face when she sees you coming.
-- If you must cry, go outside. You know how smart Sophie is..she'll know something is wrong, maybe even think it her fault. When you are around Sophie make sure it is with happy talk and smiles. After a while you'll have trained yourself to move to a more positive place, too.

Check out how these dogs handle being handiCAPABLE should that even be Sophie's path.

Tabby
Clark

-- Since there has been no recent increase of neuro loss since the injury, it is now prudent to do a test Prednisone taper. Get with your vet about having a clear picture by also stopping the pain meds on the Pred taper. You want immediate feedback if there is any sign of pain on a pred taper.

Stay strong, never give up hope as it IS in the cards for Sophie to be back enjoying her family after crate rest is over. Keep us posted on how the taper goes.