|
|
Post by Mani's Bonzo on Jun 3, 2014 9:09:55 GMT -7
I have a 4 yo mix lab who is paralysed now for about 50 hours, he suffered a kind of respiratory attack that lasted few seconds and then paralysed, he can sense if I touch his pads and sometimes stretches his feets like he used to to when he was before.
But other than that I can move on his own, his neck is swaying to left side when I pick him up for emptying his bladder.
he starts shivering when tries to move but of no success. His front legs gets stiff like wood.
he was also having few for past few days, and I also saw some bite marks of dogs( but doesn't looks like rabies)
his eyes are working normally, and he was in his heat season and it's very hot hot here about 45-50 degree C.
His blood report suggest some liver problem, but vets dont for sure what happened and suggested its ivdd.
any kind of help is appreciated cause I'm puzzled right now and worried for my little buddy.
paralysed on June 1,2014
thanks
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
|
Post by Marjorie on Jun 3, 2014 10:54:48 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name's Marjorie - what's your name and your dog's name? It can sometimes be difficult to diagnose IVDD in a larger dog unless an MRI is done. However, since the vet has suggested that it's IVDD, your dog must be treated as though it is an IVDD disc problem. It sounds as though this is a neck injury - is that what the vet said? If it's a cervical (neck) problem, here are some helpful tips, such as raising the food and water dishes so your dog doesn't have to bend his neck down to them, moistening hard kibble, etc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmWith this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmCan you give us a bit more in essential information about your dog: 1. When was the date you saw the vet and what date did you start doing the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? Strict crate rest must be implemented ASAP to protect your dog's spine from further damage. I know it's difficult to carry a large dog in and out to do potty. Will your dog go on a pee pad inside or just outside of the crate? Caster wheels can be put on a wire crate and wheeled outside to do potty. 2. Is there still currently pain? Shivering when moving IS a sign of pain. Signs of pain are holding the head in an unusual position, head held high or nose to the ground, shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, arched back, holding leg up flamingo style, not wanting to bear weight on the leg, just not their usual perky-interested-in-life self. You need to immediately advise the vet of the shivering that you're seeing so pain meds can be adjusted. There should be no sign of pain from one dose of pain meds to the next. 3. What are the exact names, dose in mgs and frequency of all meds? How much does your dog weigh? 4. Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. We usually recommend giving Pepcid AC but if your dog has a liver problem, your vet may recommend something else. 5. Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? Is it just his front legs that are paralyzed? 6. Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? 7. Eating and drinking OK? 8. Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all meds and there is no pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk but only after all meds are stopped and there is no pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmLaser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. Please don't despair. IVDD is not a death sentence. Many dogs regain use of their legs and even if they don't, their lives can be happy ones. www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmWe're here for both of you. Please fill us in on a bit more information so we can offer more support. Healing prayers for your dog. |
|
|
|
Post by Mani's Bonzo on Jun 3, 2014 11:38:41 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie for replying
my dogs name is bonzo, and I adopted him when he was 6 months old, now he's just over 4 and he weighs around 25-30 kgs. [55-66 lbs) Some of the events that might help you answering are:
1. About 6 months back he started yelping out of nowhere( just one) as if something pinched his paws-everytime or most of the times in back leg.
2. Then about 5 months back while playing with my brother saw me and started to sprint towards me, and as soon as he launched he fell down very badly(on the hard ground only-no elevation or slope) and his front legs became stiff as wood, but he recovered in one hour. This falling happens twice or thrice till now but sudden yelping continued once or twice a week.
3. I took him to a vet and he said his hind legs are weak in calcium and gave mineral and vitamin brisket. He don't eat kibbles or any other dog food or meat, he only eats wheat slurry mixed in milk, sometimes egg white and cheese but mostly had to be handfed.
4. His vaccinations was also delayed this time for which I think I will forever guilty, only because he's afraid of travelling, he starts salivating as soon as I put him in a car.
5. From last 4-5 days he was in his heat season, and had fever (103-104 degree). I was arranging for his mating( it takes time cause he is a mixed breed and nobody wants to do it), so he accidently ran out of his leash and went in to a group of stray dogs, I searched him and found him after 8 hours in around 40 degree C. Temp,
6 when I checked his body I found teeth marks after which he got fever.
7. After his walk on 1st June he fell down out of nowhere, found breathing difficult , and couldn't move. I took him straight to the vet but they don't know what happened, I have changed 3 vets since but none of them know what's wrong.
8. His blood report says some contents are higher than normal in his liver.
9. Today's vet have prescribed him this: (a) solumedrol- daily (b) neurobian (c) tolfine [non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (also known as an NSAID)], along with dr. Reckeweg r 71 and r73.
10. My dog cant move on his own( in fact cant move at all only his head goes back and forth while lying)he is lying on the bed, but sometimes stretched his all 4 legs , like when dogs do when resting in Normal , also his neck is not in his control and sways left.
11. He starts shivering only when he wants to get up or is uncomfortable, I have emptied his bladder manually and tried making him poop(unsuccessful )
12. He can sniff and drink water through spoon and is completely alert to normal stimuli( sounds, people)
i have seen the 3rd vet today that said he may have ivdd, so injections will start from tomorrow and asked me to take him for MRI.plz reply ASAP cause i don't think vets are able to diagnose him correctly. Can it be tetanus or heat stroke paralysis.
and my dogs name is bonzo
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 3, 2014 13:44:37 GMT -7
Mani, it appears your vet is using a very dangerous combo of meds. Solumedrol is a steroid and Tolfine is a non-steroid anti-inflammatory. Steroids and NSAIDs should not be mixed as it sets up the potential for double GI tract dangers. These include starting with nausea and not wanting to eat, moving to vomit, loose stools, bloody stools, bleeding ulcers and severe damage of a perforated stomach lining. We have never heard of a vet using Tolfine so, I’m only reporting to you what I have just researched on the internet about Tofine. It is now your job to protect and get Bonzo off of Tofine which contains Tolfenamic Acid. The US Food and Drug Administration gives warning about the use of steroids with NSAIDs, what to watch for as the toxic symptoms can come on suddenly and without warning. www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htm Next post will have more comments. The use of NSAIDs and steroids is of such high concern, you will want to address this right away, asap. Steroids need to be tapered off for a health reason, so I would stop the NSAID as the FDA indicates. NSAIDs do not need to be tapered. Please do your own reading and calling around with other vetrs about this use of Tolfine with Solumedrol. Basically it sounds like you need the help of a specialist, a board certified neuro specialst. Let us know your city/country. Board-certified neuros (ACVIM) surgical specialists can be found at University vet teaching hospitals. You can locate others in your area here: www.acvim.org [neuros] The dr. Reckeweg products appear to contain some sort of anti-inflammatories too. So if this is the case with reasearch into what each of herbs are, they may also be contra indicated with the Solumedrol and of course with the Tolfine. www.dkonatural.com/category.sc;jsessionid=54EC8B7D6F3A2228064A6AF459899F5C.m1plqscsfapp01?categoryId=10r 71 Active ingredients: Aconitum napellus (Aconite) 4X, Arsenicum album (Arsenous oxide) 30X, Colocynthis (Colocynth) 4X, Gnaphalium polycephalum (Common everlasting) 3X, Magnesia phosphorica (Magnesium phosphate) 8X. and r73 Active ingredients: Argentum nitricum 12X, Arnica montana 4X, Bryonia alba 4X, Causticum 12X, Ledum palustre 3X, Sulphuri-cum acidum 6X. |
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 3, 2014 14:07:56 GMT -7
Mani, dachshunds and other chondro small dog breeds can have other diseases mimicking IVDD which may require consultation with a board certified Neuro (ACVIM) to diagnose. Large breed dogs too have their own breed diseases which can look like IVDD where the treatment would be opposite of the treatment for IVDD. So this is why we depend on a vet to give a diagnosis for IVDD. There are many diseases that can look like IVDD but require perhaps a different treatment. Our only area of expertise is with IVDD and the only area we feel we have good information to share with you. I would highly recommend getting a 4th opinion but this time with a board certified neuro specialist who sees neurological issues all day long every day… so you know exactly what is going on with Bonzo. I can share with you these comments that may be useful til you get a qualified diagnosis. 1. Crating 24/7 is the prudent thing til you know you are not dealing with a disc problem that caused the spinal cord injury. Limited movement of the back is to prevent permanent paralysis with the hope that the nerves will be able to regenerate. 2. If he is in pain, do know that you have not really listed any meds that deal with pain. Anti-inflammatories are not pain relievers as they can take 7-30 days to get all the painful swelling down. In the meantime true pain relievers would be needed if you are seeing any of these signs of pain shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, head held high or nose to the ground, not normal perky self? Readings on pain meds typically used with dogs suffering with painful IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm3. His diet is not a balanced one with all the vitamins, minerals and protein a dog must have need. If you want to do home cooking then it is certainly doable, but it needs your commitment to read and learn how to provide the right nutrition. Until you become a proficient home food preparer, feeding a good quality kibble will quickly get Bonzo on a balanced diet he sorely needs. Readings: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/nutritionhealing.htm (list of rated foods) A list specializing in proper nutrition in a diversity of diets whether commercial, home-cooked or raw. Support for healthy dogs and those with disorders such as liver, skin, heart, etc. groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/K9Kitchen/infoPlease let us know how Bonzo is doing and what a specialist diagnosis. |
|
|
|
Post by Mani's Bonzo on Jun 3, 2014 15:14:06 GMT -7
Thank you very much for the anti-inflammatory and steroids mix up,a I haven't started them yet so I will not use them, I'm from New Delhi, india and am still looking for a good vet here(in case you know it please inform me).
I wake all night to see if he's not suffering and my observation is that he's not in pain but when he tries to stand up for reasons( morning walk, when at vets table) he starts shivering and by slow petting calms down within a minute or two.
i massaged his legs gently with oil last night and even tonight, and I feel he's legs are responding well to it(i may be wrong,but that's what I feel), his hind legs are in better condition than the front ones, till yesterday he was dipping fluids in small amount from his nose,
Can I just go with anti inflammatory injections without using steroids, cause I feels he suffered some kind of minor injury to his neck( because he cant control his neck, he's face muscle looks goods, he is stretching his limbs when on bedding), and while checking his blood report and checking it on internet suggest some inflammation.
. Should I wait for a few days to check his progress and meds while searching for another vet, or go with the prescribed drugs.
what other things can i feed him to stay in shape, cause he hasn't popped for last two days( I tried using ice stimulation but didn't worked).
I'm sorry to ask minute details, it's only because I hate to see my dog like this( and one more thing he' only as big as a pamalien dog)
thank you
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 3, 2014 16:06:19 GMT -7
Mani, because we are not vets, because we don’t know for sure what Bonzo’s disease is we could not tell you what meds to give. A steroid or a NSAID (but never the two together) are to get painful swelling down. If Bonzo is currently not on any meds (no Dr. Reckeweg, no Solumedrol, no Tolfine) and he has no pain, then makes me wonder why prescribe steroids. Something you can discuss with a vet. Hopefully you can get an appointment with a specialist or a vet who knows more by tomorrow? IF he is to take any anti-inflammatory his GI tract should be protected with famotidine. www.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspxwww.medlineindia.com/alimentary_system/famotidine.htmExpressing for poop is to help avoid accidents. It is not for health issues like it is expressing for urine. How to express for poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poopBonzo could possibly be getting constipated. So you might want to see about some high fiber addition to his diet. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each meal along with a tablespoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato. Do you have access to kibble food in your city? I would start a slow and gradual transition over the course of several days to kibble. He really is in dire need of proper nutrition and in the right amounts of minerals, vitamins and protein that milk egg white and cheese simply do not contain. Many dogs like people are lactose intolerant…they do not have the enzyme needed to digest dairy such as milk and cheese. The body will be needing a good source of protein (meat, chicken, fish) to heal those nerves that again is not present in the current diet of milk, egg whites and cheese. Here is just one example so you will see that you do need to get yourself educated before tackling home cooking: When one part of the body needs a mineral not available in the blood supply it must raid stored sources…not a good health situation! The ratio of calcium to phosphorus is important to maintain muscle tone, bone strength such as the bones in the spine, the vertebrae. Calcium is an essential mineral which causes heart beats and pumping blood. Good sources of Phosphorus for canines is in meats (beef, fish, pork). |
|
|
|
Post by Mani's Bonzo on Jun 3, 2014 17:28:19 GMT -7
He's doesn't eat anything else, meat, dog foods etc. but I will try kibble or any other good dog food this time, and try other vets today.
One thing that I recently noticed is that he secrets water from nose when he shakes/ shivers,
What is the minimum time span to be maintained between two NSAID's ?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 3, 2014 19:45:17 GMT -7
I'm not sure of your NSAID question. If I got it wrong please explain more.
IF there is to be a switch between two different brands of NSAIDs there should be a 4-7 days washout.
If there is to be a switch between a NSAID <--> steroid, there should be a 4-7 days washout
Basically practicing safe medicine means only ONE anti-inflammatory in use at a time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mani's Bonzo on Jun 4, 2014 9:32:45 GMT -7
Sorry for not being clear, your second point answered my question.
Hi, I took my dog to a new vet today and he seemed to understand my dogs current position, he checked him properly and he thinks he may not have IVDD, he thinks he might have arthritis or ataxia and will do ultrasound and other tests tomorrow to check the cause.
He hasn't prescribed any meds and told not to express his bladder and allow him to do it on his own, so currently he's not on any steroids or NSAIDs(thank you for telling me about them).
One thing today that I noticed while bringing him back from vet is that he's one nipple is red like a cherry, can I put some ointment over it?.
I think you are doing a wonderful job through this forum and I'm very grateful full all the support that you have provided and can I keep posting my queries even if he don't get diagnosed with IVDD.
Thank you
I missed one thing in previous post that he received following meds today(all injections)
1. Vetalgin
2. Optineuron
3. Belamyl
4. RL
|
|
Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
|
Post by Sabrina on Jun 4, 2014 12:42:59 GMT -7
Hi Mani! I'm Sabrina. So sorry to hear of Bonzo's health struggles! I hope that this new vet can get to the bottom of what's going on, so that Bonzo can get started with the correct treatment! About Bonzo's nipple: I'd call your vet clinic and describe what you are observing to them, and ask if anything should be done about it today. If they do advice any sort of ointment, be sure not to use one containing zinc - dogs love to lick ointments off of themselves, and too much ingested zinc is toxic to them. If it turns out that Bonzo doesn't have IVDD, here is a great forum covering a wide range of ailments: www.handicappedpet.net/helppets/ Some of us here at DodgersList have dogs with multiple health problems, but as our forte is IVDD, if it turns out Bonzo has something else then a community knowledgeable in that "something else" would be a great benefit to you! Let us know what happens with Bonzo's tests tomorrow! ))Hugs!(( |
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 5, 2014 8:05:04 GMT -7
Mani, I like Sabrina's suggestion to also join the handicappedpets. Anything out of the realm of IVDD related we would not comment on this Forum. The goal of our Forum is to support you, to teach you how to learn to look up things, question everything and read so you become the most important part of your dog's health care team regarding IVDD. By doing your own reading, making your own notes, your own list of questions, you OWN future conversations with your vet. Your vet will understand why you are hiring them, what your financial situation is re: treatments, surgery, etc. You become the captain of the health care team. So naturally you will want to be an integral part of making decisions and work closely with the vet you have hired. Dr. Nancy Kay, DVM, ACVIM highly recommends this kind of relationship with your vet: "Gone are the days when you simply followed your vet's orders and asked few, if any questions. The vet is now a member of your dog's health-care team, and you get to be the team captain!" www.speakingforspot.com/PDF/Medical%20Advocacy%20101.pdfI imagine you have already Googled and looked up each of Bonzo's meds and you know which of them IS an anti-inflammatory. Your vet has also supplemented with the range of vitamin B's. I hope you will be able to find a good quality of kibble so that Bonzo will be on a path to a good balanced diet of minerals, vitamins, and nutrition. This page will help you to better read a dog food bag of ingredients....as the manufactureres make that a very tricky process. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/nutritionhealing.htm |
|
|
|
Post by Mani's Bonzo on Jun 14, 2014 17:07:14 GMT -7
Thank you for your kind words Sabrina and all other moderators/members, Bonzo's test result shows that he doesn't have IVDD but his condition is due to tick bite and partially due to arthirites, he's on medication now and can stand on his feet when supported. He still can't get up on his own, but can move his neck slightly, and the vet says that physiotherapy might help him to walk again. I'm relieved that he don't have IVDD and thought of putting an update of his condition.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 15, 2014 7:59:35 GMT -7
Mani, thank you for letting us know. We are sending our most positive of wishes for Bonzo's continued path of healing and recovery. Take care!
|
|
