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Post by Pete & Duncan on May 8, 2014 6:14:04 GMT -7
Hello Everyone. My fiance's dachshund Duncan, who is 5 years old was rushed to the vet last week.
He was moving slowly the night before and the morning of, and was put on a steroid a few days before hand and seemed to be doing fine. That day at around 3pm he started walking wobbly. He was taken to his vet at 5pm, where he was barely able to stand and the vet told us to take him to see a specialist. We got to the specilist at 6pm. By that point, he had no use of his back legs at all.
The specialist tested for deep pain and he still had it. They did a myleogram and did surgery that night at around 9pm. He had 2 bulging disks. I believe the 11 and 12th or the 12th and 13th disk. The surgeon said the surgery went well, that there was some bruising on the spine but nothing catastrophic.
He has been doing great. He brought him home on Monday, the 5th. We have been doing physical therapy with him twice a day (ROM, and massage) as well as giving him his plethora of medication. He has been very good and in good spirits. We have been expressing his bladder and have gotten the hang of it.
Yesterday and last night he pooped for the first time since being home. His tail actually lifted and was shaking a bit back and forth. The vet told us this was a good sign and not just a reflex.
I do have one question for everyone that has been through this. Starting 2 days ago, we would express some urine from his bladder. He is on ▼ prednisone and we start tapering it tomorrow. We would express his urine and he would then still pee a lot while in his crate. We were at first worried this was overflow, but we have felt his bladder become flat and he would pee his crate at least every 2 hours, so no way it was overflow. We called the vet and he said this is a good sign, that his bladder is starting to function, but that he just doesn't have the nerve growth back yet to know how to hold it. We still try to express him every 2-3 hours while on the prednisone, but he doesn't pee as much during that, but will still pee in his bed.
Has anyone else had this issue? If this means he is regaining function and feeling back there, we are all for it and are just cleaning him as often as possible.
Thanks everyone,
Pete
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Post by Julie & Toto on May 8, 2014 7:05:10 GMT -7
Hi Pete. I dont know exactly, but from my experience I think your vet is probably right. My dog peed all over the place when he first came home. Every time we picked him up he peed. The scary part for us is when he didnt pee. A few days after peeing what seemed to be constantly, he just stopped. I waited all day and night, then the next morning took him to a vet to get a catheter set to empty his bladder. I was really worried, but that afternoon everything was back to normal. He even peed on his own on a walk. I think he was just able to control it more, and maybe too much?
You're probably worried about urinary tract infections? I think if you're expressing and he's still peeing, that its not overflow. He's probably just not able to control it yet, but will be in the next few days.
Good luck to you and your pup!
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Post by Pete & Duncan on May 8, 2014 7:22:32 GMT -7
Thanks Julie & Toto,
Yes, what we are worried about would be a UTI. I guess what has us worried is he was peeing so much when we were expressing his bladder, and now we express his bladder and it only dribbles out, but he pee's all over his crate? I mean I guess as long as his bladder is emptying on a pretty consistent basis, whether by us expressing his bladder or him just going in the crate, we shouldn't be too concerned with overflow, as I would imagine that would mean no peeing at all for a prolonged period of time right?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on May 8, 2014 7:35:58 GMT -7
Pete, welcome to Dodgerslist, we are glad you are here to learn more about your fiance's doxie. Sounds like he is not in any pain if he is in good spirits. While on pred you will need to express it seems more often than the 3 hours. Initially your expressing skills may not be at the level needed to completely void the bladder thus making expressing more often needed. The goal is to express often enough and fully at each session so there is NO leaking. Try expressing every 2 hours to keep him dry. Dogs normally abhor releasing waste where they sleep. So I'm of the mind Duncan does not yet have bladder control if you are getting him out of the crate in time for him to choose where he wants to release urine. Leaking will invite infection as the urine not expressed out will be a wonderful breeding ground for bacteria resulting in a urinary tract infection (UTI). The second thing is the bladder overflows when it is filled to the top to cause reflex to kick in and release some of the urine. All that stretching to overflowing can ruin the tone of the bladder so that when the nerves reconnect the bladder won't function properly. Do not hesitate to get another expressing lesson at the vet. Go there and express in the clinic where the vet tech can check your work and give you additional tips. Great video and tips in this article too not just for urine but also poop expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmThe only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe. Tail and leg movements during potty times are likely to be reflex movements. No one can tell you when nerve functions will return, but there is a typical order to the return of them. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm --Could you list all his meds, with dose in mgs and how often you give them? How much does Duncan weigh? --How are the poops, normal color and firmness? --Is he eating and drinking normally? --Any signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, not normal perky self? Caring for an IVDD dog is all about education to know, fight and win with this enemy Duncan was born with. You both will want to work on absorbing all you can from our main web page in the next several days. Are you ready? Here's the page to bookmark become a savvy IVDD dog owner: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm This "Disc Disease" DVD is a wonderful way to help other family members understand and even others who might be around or taking care of Duncan: www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm |
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Post by Pete & Duncan on May 8, 2014 8:17:30 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thanks for the response.
Duncan is eating and drinking normally. Whenever we put water in front of him he drinks it up and hes scarfs down any food we give him immediately.
- His poops are normal color and firmness. They seem to be happening at least once every 24 hours now. He has also been lifting his tail when it comes time to poop.
- He shivers sometimes when we are doing PT with him but that is it. He is usually always cold though and he is always burrowed under a blanket otherwise.
He did yelp when we would pick him up prior to surgery but not anymore. He is very perky and will sit up and bark when he hears someone come in the house, or when he hears the other dogs barking. We take him for a few walks a day on carpeting around the house in his sling and with a leash. He has really started picking up the pace now when we walk him and has even started trying to scurry along the floor with just his two front legs. He seems to be acting like his normal self.
- Here are his list of medicines. The durations I will list will be as of this past Monday, the 5th when we brought him home for the hospital. He went in for Surgery on May 1st for timeline purposes.
1- Gabapentin Suspens: (30mg/ml) 2ML by mouth every 8 hours for first 7 days. The 2ML by mouth every 12 hours until finished
2- Prednisone: 5mg one tablet a day for first 5 days and then one tablet every other day until finished.
3- Cefadroxil: one 50mg tablet and one 100mg tablet every 8 hours with food.
4- Phenoxybenzamine: 2.5mg tablet. Give 2 tablets every 12 hours (total of 4 tablets for the day)
5- Bethanechol: 5mg Tablet one tablet every 8 hours
We also purchased extra supplements that the PT trainer told us worked great on her dog in the same situation:
Cell Advance 440 - One capsule in the morning one in the evening
Basic B - one capsule in the morning.
As for the peeing, we may just need to be more on top of him. The first few days when we were expressing fully to a flat bladder, he wouldn't mind at all. Now as he has been peeing the bed, when we go to the expressing, he grumbles. I wonder if he can feel us doing this now, which would be a good sign right? Anyway, it seems he will wet the crate, we will then wash him, try to express more. Only dribbles will come out then we will put him back in. From there he will pee again even within an hour or so. That is the only thing that leads me to believe it is not overflow, as it is happening so often.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on May 8, 2014 8:48:12 GMT -7
Pete, have you given him the sniff and pee test? Pheno and Bethanechol may be causing Duncan problems as those meds are to help make expressing easier...to increase bladder contractions and relax the neck of the bladder. So you will need to do a little detective work....sniff and pee test. If you determine he has no bladder control, can't pass the sniff and pee test, then rule out a UTI in existence with a urinalysis to see if the current antibotic has begun to address bladder bacteria. Discuss the Pheno/Beth meds in regard to all the leaking. Bladder control means a dog can wait, hold it and choose the proper place to release body wastes. It is instinct for most dogs to not release waste where they sleep. Preditors can smell it, it is a danger in the wild. So most dogs abhor having waste in their den/bed. So I'm thinking Duncan does not yet have any bladder control or may have a little returning but can't fully control. Only the sniff and pee test will reveal the answer. If you are seeing a happy tail wag because you specifically did some happy talk to him or he saw you approaching with a treat, then the next neuro function to likely start returning is bladder control. Lifting the tail at potty time is a reflex. The sniff and pee test is needed to determine if bladder control is coming back. Let us know what you observe. When bladder control begins to come back a dog may not like you doing expressing. Still you would need to do a quick express check after they pee on their own until you are certain they are fully emptying. If the Cefadroxil is not the correct anti-botic for a presumed UTI, then that could be a reason for leaking urine. TIPS for clean up
Unscented baby wipes make for quick clean up on Duncan. Marjorie's tip: boil and cool green tea to dampen a washcloth, neutralizes urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald + clean fragrance.
White vinegar in a spray bottle to disinfect and remove the urine ammonia smell from floors, etc. Two spray bottles, one filled with plain white vinegar the other filled with peroxide . A spritz of each on urine and poop disinfects and removes the odor... good on linens, floors and other hard surface. Pre test for color fastness on important fabrics. articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/07/21/vinegar.aspx This is a good article to read on supplements with IVDD once you know the ingredients in the two supplements you are giving: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htm
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Post by Pete & Duncan on May 8, 2014 10:10:16 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Again, thank you for the response. We will check the sniff and pee test on him possibly tonight.
As for the tail raising and shaking when he poops, we told our surgeon this and he told us that it wasn't a reflex and that Duncan would have to be doing it by instinct. It hasn't wagged from excitement or any other reason yet, but we are only 6 days post surgery at this point. Still, we were hoping that that was a sign of some improvement. The surgeon made it seem his tail would remain limp even when pooping if it wasn't the nerves regrowth.
Thank you again for the response. I will fill in more as we test out some of these ideas.
Thanks,
Pete
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member 
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135 
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 13, 2014 8:38:11 GMT -7
Hi Pete, it's still early days after the surgery. How is Duncan doing today? How was the sniff & pee test? Now, regarding the PT, I want to note something you said earlier: "He shivers sometimes when we are doing PT with him but that is it. He is usually always cold though and he is always burrowed under a blanket otherwise." Please note that shivering can also mean slight pain or discomfort - that's what it was for my Hurley when he was recovering from surgery. I also first thought he was cold, because like your Duncan, Hurley likes everything warm! So, I just wanted to say you should keep an eye on when it happens (what part of the PT), it could be that you are doing too much or for too long. Remember, the PT advice given by your vet/neuro or physiotherapist is almost always indicative, all dogs are individuals and you are the best judge on how much PT Duncan can safely take on a daily basis  During recovery periods, I've kept a "logbook" of our PT exercises + meds and scribbled down small notes so that it is easier to give feedback to the vet / PT when I meet them. It has worked really well so I can recommend. |
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During recovery periods, I've kept a "logbook" of our PT exercises + meds and scribbled down small notes so that it is easier to give feedback to the vet / PT when I meet them. It has worked really well so I can recommend.