Stacy & Brody
New Member
Current Treatment: Post Surgery - 6 weeks crate rest
Posts: 15 
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Post by Stacy & Brody on May 7, 2014 18:23:18 GMT -7
Brody became my first dog in November 2010. He is a Zuchon (Bishon/Shi-Tzu) 15 pounds.. He has an underbite and one leg that turns in. I still love him. He has been completely healthy until about two weeks ago. First I got a second dog.. a goldendoodle because I thought a friend would keep him company. Well at first he did not like her at all, but then one day he suddenly became her friend. There are times he has had enough of her but she did not know what no more is.. she is total puppy and loved to wrestle. Brody grew to love it to. Well I noticed that one evening he did not want to jump up in bed. I thought nothing of it just picked him up into bed. Two days later he was just acting like something was wrong. Seemed depressed. Maybe I was paying too much time to the puppy. So before I left for work I thought let me take him for a walk to see how he is. He was his normal self prancing down the street. I thought good, no problem. Later that day, my niece came home from college and stopped to see the dogs. She texted me that she thought there was something wrong with Brody's back leg. I said ok, I will be home in an hour. When I got home there was definitely something wrong. He was shaking and I had to lift him up to bring outside and he just sat there shaking. I soon got him in the car ready to go to emergency clinic. On the way he was happy sitting on my lap. When I got there he seemed better too. When they examined him they did not feel anything broke or abnormal other than his back end was very stiff and tense. Nothing that they touched hurt him. They thought he must have pulled a muscle playing, so they prescribed a muscle relaxer and a NSAID. That night the doodle went and stayed some place else so Brody did not have to worry about her jumping all over him. the next morning he seems good. I have a camera where I can view the dogs when I am away on my phone. I was at my parents house and I saw him sitting in the living room floor looking toward the kitchen. I thought he was just looking for me to come back. 15 minutes later he was in the same position. I went home and he was in pain again. I called and spoke to a vet tech who is with my vet (office was closed) and she said to keep him in the crate and let him rest. He was groggy from the meds anyways. If things get worse go back to emergency clinic, otherwise bring him in Monday morning. He stayed in the crate until Monday morning when I brought him to my vet. They did xrays and found that he had calcified discs in his back. They were not sure which disc was causing the pain. But he had more than one that was calcified. Not sure if he caused the injury from rough play or jumping up and down from furniture. I felt terrible.. should I not have gotten a playmate for him, should I have had steps or ramps.. I had no idea a 3 year old dog would have calcified discs and just an injury could possibly happen. The vet told me to keep him in a crate when I am at work, no exercise for a month (not even walking) they put him on tramadol, a steroid and some med to help his stomach. That evening when I picked him up at the vet he seemed like he was already not in any pain. However I still followed the treatment plan and even have kept him in the crate when I am home too. If I just had him to care for it would be manageable. but I also have a 4 month old puppy. And you all know how puppies are. Needless to say I have been pulling out my hairs trying to keep the puppy away from Brody and trying not to get Brody upset while he is in the crate. For the most part he is good in the crate. The toughest part is when I get home from work and I have two dogs that have been crated and they are all hyper and excited to see me. And trying to keep the injured one calm has been tough. Taking turns bringing them out after work and multiple times during the night because he has to go more from the meds. and the puppy still goes out during the night too. Doing it all by myself too. Needless to say, things are very hectic. I fear that when he is healed, how am I going to keep the puppy from not playing like a puppy. I take the puppy to puppy daycare 3 days a week and also going through obedience training.. both are helping but she is still all puppy. Will Brody be able to run around when he is better or will he be restricted to leisurely walks. I even just had my yard fenced in for them to play in. I am thinking about bringing him to a Holistic Vet and see what they think they can do. I also just purchase Vetri Disc. I don't know if they sound to good to be true but I just want to help by boy has much as I can.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2014 20:47:48 GMT -7
Gosh Stacy you have your hands full with a puppy too. Can you list for us the exact names of the meds, the dose in mgs and how often you give them. There is a concern there has not been a 4-7 days washout from the NSAID before the start of the steroid. Double stomach protection should be the norm. Is he on 5mg Pepcid AC 2x a day PLUS sucralfate? If not read and advocate for Brody. www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlwww.marvistavet.com/html/famotidine.htmlEducation is going to be one of the most important things you can do for Brody outside of the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm In the next couple of days we hope you will finish reading so you are knowledgeable about the meds used iwth IVDD, know what to monitor for and understand each of the four phases of heaing. This over view is an excellent place to learn all about conservative treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmIs his pain fully under control of the one pain med he is on (tramadol)? Usually methocarbamol is on board as well to deal with the type of pain coming from muscle spasms. So do know your vet has options for full pain control not yet used. Let us and your vet know if you are seeing any shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, head held high or nose to the ground, not normal perky self? |
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Stacy & Brody
New Member
Current Treatment: Post Surgery - 6 weeks crate rest
Posts: 15
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Post by Stacy & Brody on May 8, 2014 17:50:11 GMT -7
The vet said it was fine going from the NSAID to the Prednisone because he was only on it two days and there was 24 hours since. His treatment is/ was on
15 lbs
Prednisone 5 mg 2x/day for 5 days, then once a day for 7 days, then 1 everyother day for 14 days.
Tramadol 50mg (quartered) once or twice a day for pain.
Gastralieve (1/2 tablet twice a day, and
Pepcid 5 mg (but quartered) twice a day.
I also started him on Vetri disk. He was a on muscle relaxer but only for about 4 days. Did not appear to need anymore. Doctor did not say he had to stay in crate 24/7. but I have been leaving him in there 95% of the time especially since the puppy is around too. His case was not as severe as everyone else I am reading on this site. But I am taking a conservative approach on his healing. Also going to a holistic vet in june. new issue is that puppy was exposed to kennel cough. ugh. impossible for them to not be around each other. But making sure no contact with same eat dish or toys or water bowl. So far no symptoms. Both were vaccinated but so was the puppy who caught it.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 8, 2014 20:32:43 GMT -7
What was the start date of pred. where in the taper is Brody is it the 5mg every other day?
Is Tramadol being stopped with the every other day to have a clear picture on pain with Pred taper?
Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) anywhere from 7-30 days. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a taper. Usually the first course will be 5 or 7 days and then a test taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose level. Your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of painful swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain (shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight). To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too.
Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on the steroid prednisone, pain meds and Pepcid AC needed.
We have not seen Gastravlieve being used. Sucralfate is the one most often used when deemed an emergency and the 4-7 days washout can't be done as Sucralfate heals damaged areas of the lining. So I'm glad to hear your vet did use double stomach protection: "Zinc-Carnosine in Gastralieve combines elemental zinc and the di-peptide L-carnosine in a chelated stable, chelated compound with synergistic benefits. Zinc stimulates the mucosal defense mechanism and promotes the localized tissue repair of irritated stomach lining. L-carnosine and Vitamin E provide antioxidant activity to protect grastric epithelial cells from further damages from sources such as bacterial toxins, improper diet and NSAID use."
Got my fingers crossed for the kennel cough not to spread.
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Stacy & Brody
New Member
Current Treatment: Post Surgery - 6 weeks crate rest
Posts: 15
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Post by Stacy & Brody on May 9, 2014 18:29:39 GMT -7
start days on prednisone was april 28 started that evening and continued for 5 days, once in am and once in pm, then tapered off to 1 every day in am, that is until tomorrow, then 1 every other day. is it better to give in am or pm? they said I could taper of the tramadol too if he is not showing pain. So for Tramadol he has only been getting about 12mg , once in am and once in pm.(50mg split in 4). He has showed no signed of pain since I picked him up from the vet on the 28th. After being on the meds this long he still really pants a lot. I think he has some anxiety issues being in the crate so much too.. I do have a calming collar on but so far that is not doing anything. I have a thunder shirt but have not tried that. I do keep water in his crate in either a dish or one of those hanging containers. He seems to have to get up at least twice during the night to go out. (I was still bringing him out once a night before he became injured. Since I have had him I probably have only gotten 2 weeks of continued sleep. He was able to hold it for 9 hours while at work during the day but during the night he always has had to go..even though I would removed water after 8. but with him on meds I also have water if he wants it.
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Post by Pauliana on May 9, 2014 20:46:09 GMT -7
Hi Stacy!
There is a concern about using the Thundershirt on a dog with a current disc problem. IT is VERY tight fitting. We have not had the Thundershirt evaluated by a neuro surgeon in order to get an opinion on whether is
would/possibility could cause a problem with a dog that is currently on crate rest for an IVDD episode.
From what we've read and heard, sometimes they work and sometimes not. I would be very cautious to use one on an IVDD dog and especially during a disc episode
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member 
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 9, 2014 23:02:39 GMT -7
Hi Stacy! Welcome to Dodgerslist! I am not a moderator, but I've read your story and would like to help, if I can. For my dog Hurley, panting in the crate has been a sign of pain. Now, it can also mean anxiety. Or it can be anxiety because of pain. I would keep a close eye on Brody to make sure he is not experiencing any pain. Second, when my dog Hurley first had an IVDD episode in December, he all of a sudden needed to go to potty once or twice every night. It can partly be because of the medication, partly because he is anxious, or it could be because of pain. In any case, keep an eye on this behavior and do not remove the water - he may need more water because of meds and/or pain. You say even before the episode, you had to take him out once a night. It could also be that he's had this ongoing for longer than what you know... In any case - now you are on it, and you are going to make sure Brody gets better!  One more thing Stacy, you said you are keeping Brody in the crate 95% of the time? You also say that Brody's case is "not as severe as everyone else". Please ensure he is in the crate 100%, only out for potty, and even then, on a harness, short leash and minimum number of steps. Not yelping when being picked up is not a sign of no pain at all, he could still be in pain, keep in mind that all dogs behave differently at different stages of their individual recovery processes. And you have a puppy in the house, adding to the risk that Brody may reinjure himself if out of the crate too soon. You are doing well, keep on educating yourself - there is a lot of information available here on Dodgerslist! Love, Lola |
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Stacy & Brody
New Member
Current Treatment: Post Surgery - 6 weeks crate rest
Posts: 15
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Post by Stacy & Brody on May 10, 2014 6:52:26 GMT -7
Thank you. This morning he is not panting at all, I did not give him any Tramadol since 7 last night, so I believe it is that. And he has always had some anxiety. He loves to go on car rides but after a few minutes in the car he always started to shiver and pant. But say to him wanna go bye byes and he would run to the car. The potty at night has been since he was a puppy, he got use to it. It has always been at the same time too,it became habit. I do not let him roam the house or outside, he is out to go potty and I let him lay next to me for 5 or 10 minutes a day. He is just laying there. thank you for your advice. I only wished I knew the risks that dogs with long bodies and short legs have a chance of this happening to them. I never would have let him jump up and down from furniture like he always has and would have never gotten another dog that is going to be 3x his size. Now I to find some ramps and then once he is recovered to train him to use those other than jumping.
I won't try the thundershirt then. thanks.
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Stacy & Brody
New Member
Current Treatment: Post Surgery - 6 weeks crate rest
Posts: 15
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Post by Stacy & Brody on May 10, 2014 7:12:50 GMT -7
The vet charges and enormous amount of money for the meds. If the vet writes out a prescription, can that be used at say Walmart? for a dog?  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 10, 2014 7:29:53 GMT -7
Yes, your vet could write an Rx and would be doing something extra special for your dog. Part of how a vet keeps his business alive to pay the rent, the light bill, his employees and pay himself is to make some profit from his services. So do acknowledge and appreciate the special favor he would be doing to write an Rx. My vet does this for me and it really is quite a savings if your meds are on the $4 generic programs many grocery store pharmacies, Walmart, etc. offer. $4 per each 30 tablet prescription program are at Walmart, Target, Kroger's for the IVDD med and dose listed below. Do some leg work ahead of time, call your local pharmacy genericmedlist.com/ to verify before asking your vet to write an Rx for you to bring into the pharmacy. Prices often change and the price is not standard pharmacy to pharmacy. PREDNISONE is a steroid, an anti-inflammatory, used to reduce swelling in the spinal cord in order to prevent further damage and loss of neuro functions. Available in 2.5mg or 5mg tabs. PEPCID AC (the generic is Famotidine) is an acid reducer to protect the stomach from bleeding and ulcers. Available in 20 mg tablet only. Doxies take 5mgs 2x a day. To save money make sure the vet writes a script for a 20 mg tablet. The pharmacist will not give you the larger tablet unless the script is written that way or called in that way. You would have to cut a 20mg tab into quarters to equal 5mg a dose. TRAMADOL is a centrally acting analgesic to mask pain until Prednisone has reduced swelling. Available in 50 mg tablets. METHOCARBAMOL relieves the pain of muscle spasms that can happen during a disc problem. Todate this med is NOT on the $4 lists. Do shop around to find best price. 4/21/13 Walmart quoted thirty 500mg tablets for $14.46 SUCRALFATE: is not on the $4 list but may be a less expensive alternative to Gastralieve. Sucralfate is what most vets prescribe when extra protection is needed to the Pepcid AC. You can read more about this med here: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlExtra med info:http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/medications_used.html Lowrx itunes.apple.com/us/app/lowrx-discount-prescription/id584405669 is a free Apple – and soon to be Android – app that combs the databases of pharmacies and drugstores to find discounted prices on drugs, which can fluctuate like gas prices. Until the Android version is released, Android users can print out a card at the Lowrx site lowrxcard.com/card.html to use in store. NeedlyMeds card www.needymeds.org The organization offers a free drug discount card that can net you savings of up to 80 percent on medicines that aren’t covered by insurance or have a high deductible. You can even use the card – also available as an iPhone app – for over-the-counter medications and pet prescriptions. www.needymeds.org/drugcard/drugcard.pdf |
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