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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 5, 2014 18:41:21 GMT -7
Hi, I have a 4 year old 18 pound,male dachshund named Rocko. A few weeks ago I came home from work to find Rocko in some sort of pain. His stomach was trembling and he was breathing hard. In obvious distress but was still eating, drinking, walking, using bathroom etc.. By morning he had no use of his back legs. I took him to vet that morning. He was no longer able to go the bathroom on his own and lost all pain sensation from his mid back down. The vet gave him dexamathsone injection and recommend we keep him there for a few days. He was there a total of 5 days and was given dexamathsone injections daily. The had to express his bladder/bowels. He didn't lose his eating habbits and never missed a meal. He made no progess so the vet recommend surgery or to be put down. Surgery is not an option and right now neither is putting him to sleep. He still seemed himself and happy to see me. I decieded to bring him home and give it a try. He has been in his crate since I brought him home. Only comes out to be expressed and to clean him since he does leak urine. He is eating really well and very thirty since he is on ▼prednisone. He is just finishing his last dose of it tonight.
I'm giving him a good multivitamin and also Hip Flex vitamin. I'm pretty discouraged and don't know that I should keep him going like this. He is no longer in pain but I feel so bad for him. I was really hoping he would just make a recovery. I've had two other dachshund and neither had any problems. I never expected this to happen and I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. I figure I could by him a wheelchair but since he can't go to the bathroom on his own it makes it pretty difficult and I don't know that I could do that forever. I know he needs to be crated for at least 8 weeks but any other advise or things I can do in the meantime? Please help me and Rocko.- Ash
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Post by John & Marley on May 5, 2014 20:26:32 GMT -7
I had a 18 lb Long Hair who didn't feel anything for over 12 weeks in his back legs, not 8 weeks but 12 weeks and then he started to feel and respond. A year later he was walking and running like the wind. There is no concrete timeline to when it gets better, so don't get discouraged if at 8 weeks its not back to normal. I slept on a sleeping bag in my living room for 6 months next to his crate So I could take him out at all ungodly hours to do his business. All the meds he was on made him drink and urinate constantly. I heard Surgeons and Vets say that's the best it will be , be happy the way he is, they were wrong and he even got better. Currently the dog I have now is just finishing his 13th week of Conservative Treatment , 3 weeks of which have been rehabbing and had 20 Laser Treatment Sessions. I adjusted his recovery and crate time longer than 8 weeks to be ultra conservative and its payed off, he seems to be back at 100% .
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on May 5, 2014 20:27:41 GMT -7
Hi there! Welcome to Dodgerslist. I'm Sabrina - what's your name? First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your dog to get back to enjoying life after recovering. Good for you for not giving up on Rocko! IVDD itself is not a death sentence: YES, Your Dog CAN Have a Great Quality of Life! - www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmI am sorry to hear that your vet does not know about how to treat IVDD with medications and crate rest. Euthanasia isn’t a “treatment” for IVDD. Dodger’s List is full of success stories of dogs who have recovered from disc episodes with Conservative treatment. See the Success Stories on this page (the C stands for Conservative): www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htm Also, here are some great articles to read about Conservative Treatment: Conservative treatment for disc disease (IVDD) - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmCrate Rest Recovery Process - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmClark's helpful supplies for crate rest - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmWith this disease self education is critical - not just so you make sure the right things are being done for Rocko's best recovery, but also for your own emotions! The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmAdd this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm Tape this flyer to your fridge so the whole family knows what things are emergencies: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfIn order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? ► Did Rocko specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? ► Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? ► Is Rocko still on any Rx meds? If so, would you list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? ► Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment - once off of all meds and there is no more pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm► Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? ► If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. How are you doing with expressing Rocko? As he's leaking, it sounds like he may need to be expressed more often, or you may need another "hands over your hands" lesson or two from your vet. Expressing is a learned skill, so get as many lessons as you need to master it! Here is a page with lots of great tips/videos: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm))Hugs!(( Rocko is so lucky to have you on his side! We are here to support you as you care for him!
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 6, 2014 9:32:08 GMT -7
So this morning I pinched his toes and he moved his leg back. Is this a good sign?
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 6, 2014 9:48:36 GMT -7
Pinching is part of a neuro exam. Often even general vets do not have the training to correctly identity what they have observed. So likely you will not learn anything from pinching. You may just be causing undo movement of the back. The better way to monitor for neuro signs is below. You'll want to read the complete article here www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a neruo or ortho specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. When you have the opportunity, we look forward to the important details about Rocko meds and the other questions we've asked so we are in a better position to comment and support you guys.
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 6, 2014 19:15:00 GMT -7
The vet didn't diagnois him with really anything. I said it was "spinal nerve disfunction"
Rocko doesn't seem to be in any pain. Only a tight tummy after eating/drinking
As of today he is not on any rx meds. He just finished a 10 day 10 mg 1 tab twice daily of prendisone
No, he cannot walk wobbly or wag his tail:(
Eating and drinking are great. His poops are all normal (times and color)
I live in a fairly small town, no vets in my area can do laser light therapy. Biggest city away is 350 miles in any direction so unfortuanly that is not an option either. I am doing light massage and bicycle motions.
I think I'm getting better at express his bladder. Today was a fairly dry day:)
Ash
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Post by Pauliana on May 6, 2014 20:34:23 GMT -7
Hi Ash, I am so sorry Rocko is having a disc episode.. The most important part of the treatment besides making sure pain is under control, is crate rest, and I am so glad you are doing that for Rocko.. Did your Vet have you do a taper of the Prednisone instead of just stopping after 10 days at twice a day? There must be a taper for health reasons. Usually the first course of a steroid at the anti-inflammatory level will be 5 or 7 days and then a taper. To have a clear picture on a steroid taper, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too. The steroid dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose. The owner's job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain. Immediate feedback to the vet about any pain is necessary. Often a plan B is arranged ahead of time so that if the pain happens at night or on weekends when the vet is not open, the owner knows what meds to give til the vet can be contacted. If a taper hasn't been done, get on the phone with the Vet and ask about tapering the Prednisone. Normally a taper is included in the original prescription. Not all Vets understand how to treat IVDD Be sure to read all the links that Sabrina posted for you when you have time. It's important to learn all about IVDD to protect and care for Rocko.. IVDD is not a death sentence as your vet would have you believe. With conservative treatment reduction of swelling can take 7-30 days on a steroid to resolve the pain caused by inflammation. Glucocorticoid steroids are synthetic versions of the body’s naturally occurring hormone, cortisol. Steroids are basically the most powerful of anti-inflammatories. With IVDD, an anti-inflammatory dose is used rather than a higher immuno-suppressive dose used for other diseases. There are no safe medications. There are two safety factors with drugs. One is a vet who practices safe medicine with a blood test to verify the liver and kidneys are healthy prior to starting the medications. The other is an owner who is well read and educated on what the side effects are and monitors their dog. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmLet us know how it goes with Rocko's vet.. Healing thoughts and prayers...
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 7, 2014 19:50:19 GMT -7
I talked with Rocko's vet today. He gave Rocko another 10 day supply of ▲ prednisone 5 mg to be taken twice daily(every 12 hrs) but he changed the dose to 5 mg. He said we would work on tapering off after 10 more days.
He said as long as it was taken with food it would be ok on his stomach. The is the only med he is on now. I think I should call the vet back and see if Rocko can have something for pain. I don't think he is in pain now but it would be a good back up in case. He seems to be getting more feeling back in his back. The vet had me do a test at home and with tweezers, lightly pinch his back starting with his low back. He started to react about two inches above where his tail starts- by his muscle twitching and him looking back like what are you doing mom? I also noticed in the last few days when I take him out to be expressed he can standing on his own for a few seconds before sinking down.( as long as his paw aren't buckled)- I hope these are all good signs and he is making a recovery.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2014 20:19:18 GMT -7
Ash, we follow the vets who understand the dangers to the GI tract with Prednisone. We have seen dogs die from bleeding ulcers progress to a perforated stomach lining. We don't assume things will be OK...we are proactive here. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Also give Pred with a meal. Purchase a 10mgs tablet. Your grocery store pharmacist will help you find the less expensive Brand X that contains only one active ingredient (famotidine) Obtain an inexpensive pill splitter to make it an easy cut for the 5mg dose.
Often general DVM vets don't get the neuro test right, so the more reliable test for you at home is to observe for neuro functions rather than pinching anything. More reading on nerve regeneration: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm
Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
This article can be helpful to you in discussing why the extension with pred. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm Pred works on swelling that can be painful and can be the cause of loss of nerve function. Had pain surfaced? Had the nerve functions gotten worse?
Once nerves are damaged, they can take more than 8 weeks of conservative crate rest care. The crate rest is to allow the disc to heal. There are no meds that can heal nerves...they need time to regenerate and that is often in terms of months not days or weeks.
Dr. Nancy Kay, DVM, ACVIM has hit it on the nail especially with IVDD. We'll need to be self educated so we can team up to work with our vets. "Gone are the days when you simply followed your vet's orders and asked few, if any questions. The vet is now a member of your dog's health-care team, and you get to be the team captain!" www.speakingforspot.com/PDF/Medical%20Advocacy%20101.pdf Our hope is in the next few days you will have a chance to finish reading and be the savvy owner Rocko needs to advocate for him. Good spot to start that reading on how conservative treatment works:http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 9, 2014 19:44:54 GMT -7
I have Rocko on pepcid ac now. Not much change other than that. I've really everything on website and more.
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 14, 2014 9:49:26 GMT -7
Help! I really couldn't get Rocko to pee this morning. I had a hard time even finding his bladder. I got very little out.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 14, 2014 11:40:30 GMT -7
Try again a bit later. Try a warm towel from the dryer to warm up his tummy area, relaxing the tummy muscles. When muscles are tense it is difficult to feel the bladder's shape. If you are concerned about the length of time since last expressing, do not hesitate to go to your vet's clinic and express in front of them, so the vet tech can check your work.
Has there been the start of the pred taper? Any other recent changes in meds?
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 14, 2014 12:08:36 GMT -7
He is coming off ▼ prednisone. No other meds. He went a little better at lunch but no as much as normal. Everything else is ok. Drinking normal. It doesn't feel like he has anything else in there.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 15, 2014 8:02:34 GMT -7
As long as he is not leaking in his bedding, he is staying dry, then you are likely voiding the bladder properly with your expressing. If you still have a concern, it would not be a bad idea just to relay that to the vet, to keep him in the loop about your observations and ease your mind.
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Post by Ash & Rocko on May 15, 2014 9:11:29 GMT -7
He is dry... No leaks at all. When I per him it's more like a squirt than a steady steam
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Post by Ash & Rocko on Jul 4, 2014 20:21:55 GMT -7
Hi, Rocko is now in his 13th week. he has completed his crate rest and really no other improvements. I continue to do physical therapy with him and have done water therpy several times. Unfortuantley, I'm in over my head. Do you know of any place/person that takes in paralyzed dogs? It would kill me to part with him but if he his with someone that can take care of him as he needs and I would feel much better than doing the alternative.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 4, 2014 21:54:51 GMT -7
Hi Ash! Sorry to hear that you are wanting to part with Rocko. Nerves are the slowest part of the body to heal but they can heal. It can take months and sometimes a year or longer. Lisa's dog Goosie was paralyzed and she took her first steps 11 months later much to Lisa's stunned and happy amazement. Here is Goosie's story.. www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory/goosieSullivan.htmYour dog can live a happy life with IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmWhere do you live?
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Post by Cindi & Kytt on Jul 4, 2014 22:07:11 GMT -7
Ash, My Oscar remained paralyzed after surgery, but he lived a long and happy life.His joy and boundless love had nothing to do with his mobility, or lack there of. His care became very routine for me, and really only took a few minuets each day. As Pauliana said, there is still hope that Rocko will regain mobility over time, but I assure you, even if he doesn't, being paralyzed will likely not slow him down in the least. Oscar at times was difficult to express, and my vet. proscribed phenoxybenzamine. Honestly, I had Oscar, expressed and fed before the rest of the troupe finished sniffing for a potty spot. Oscar, succumbed to congestive heart failure at the age of 13 1/2, and I still miss my little boy. I know how scary and overwhelming this can all be at first. I just wanted to offer my experience, hugs, prayers and support. Cindi and Keeghan
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 5, 2014 11:46:48 GMT -7
Ash, can you tell us some specifics where you feel you are "in over your head." Alot of us do live with paralyzed dogs including me and we may be able to offer some of our tips.
It is still pretty early nerve-wise healing as Pauli and Cindi and many others will confirm. Nerves really are the slowest part of the body to heal.
You did such a good job in caring for Rocko during conservative treatment. I know how much you must love him.... let's hear from you and see what your stumbling blocks are and give Rocko the chance he needs to stay with the one he loves.
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