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Post by Martin & Fudge on May 3, 2014 8:53:23 GMT -7
Hi -- I'm new to the forum but very (VERY!) grateful for it. Fudge is a 2-1/2 year old Pomeranian male, intact, who weighs about 7 lbs. (he's the only member of our family with healthy BMI . . .). His health overall has been excellent to date but last Thursday he developed 7 of the 8 symptoms in the first column here - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htm so not a lot of doubt about his diagnosis. I think he is being well treated by our vet with Tramadol and Rimadyl I have two questions on which I would love collective input. If I've put these in the wrong place feel free to move them. 1) Pen vs. Crate -- I'd love to have him in a pen rather than a crate but am afraid he'll be spending too much time up on his back legs against the sides, esp. when we're all around him. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to prevent that, whether it's an important therapeutic concern, or anything else relevant? I'm planning on heading over to Petco or Petland today so am eager for feedback. 2) Swallowing Pills -- We were doing pretty well for the first 24 hours but my luck ran out this morning. He's shown no interest in his 7 AM Tramadol no matter what I wrap it in (pastrami, cheese, those are his usual faves) and he still hasn't taken it at Noon. So any tricks of the trade re administering pills would be greatly appreciated. That's it for now, again let me express my appreciation for your truly superb site. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 3, 2014 9:41:30 GMT -7
Martin welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you found us. Do let us know the specifics on his med list: Tramadol ?mgs, ?x/day Rimadyl ?mgs, ?x/day Pepcid AC as the stomach protector. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. Phrase the to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmOur main website @ www.dodgerslist.com/ is "the" place we store our treasure trove of IVDD info. Just type in any search box " standing or jumping" to find the info prevent that.  Putting the wire crate on a table where Fudge can better see all what is going in his house from a high, will make it less likely for him to stand up on his hind legs against the side of the crate. Tramadol is VERY bitter. If he has gotten a taste he'll be forever suspicious. Prepare three treats, one will have the pill inside. Give the first plain treat with #2 pill treat in view. The idea is a greedy gulp to get the next. With #2 in the mouth have #3 plain treat in view. Most dogs like sweet banana. The pill will stick inside a little ball. If need be wrap with a thin piece of deli meat to make even more yummy. The small size marshmallows also make a good pill pocket as the stickiness keeps the pill from falling out. You may have to pill him if the 3 treat idea does not work. Maintaining level of pain reliever constant is key to keeping pain at bay. Fill us in on these details so we can be of better support to you and Fudge: -- Is there still currently pain nearing next dose of Tramadol or after moving - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- Currently can Fudge wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. |
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Post by Martin & Fudge on May 3, 2014 10:32:13 GMT -7
Thanks so very much! Wow! That's extremely helpful.
1) Pen -- My concern about putting it up on a table as you suggested, other than that it seems potentially unstable, is that it will complicate getting him into and out of it. My other option I suppose is we have a sort of travel pen that is soft-sided so I don't think he'd be able to stand up against the wall. My goal would be to have something like an Ex-Pen but to make sure he doesn't spend much if any time standing up on his back legs inside it. I asked the Vet about it today and she said it was a concern but a lesser one than stairs, jumping, etc. I didn't find much of relevance doing the search on the main site as you suggested but will keep looking.
2) Pills --Thanks!! Will try everything you recommended and I guess I'll find out if he likes marshmallows. Just came back from the supermarket with some peanut butter so will try to make a go of it.
7 lbs.
Tramadol -- 50 mg, 1/4 tablet (impossible to cut!) every 8 hours.
Rimadyl - 25 mg chewable, 1/4 tablet twice daily.
Pepcid -- I'll ask! We did have Fudge on a course of Rimadyl once before for a patella issue and he seemed to tolerate it fine but I will definitely ask. Thanks for the suggestion.
This morning he nearly gave us all a heart attack when he snuck out and ran up 21 steps. I thought I could detect trembling after that but not 100% sure. Otherwise he appears relatively blissful without interruption since he started the Tramadol (though I'm conscious of the risks of it 'masking' his actual condition).
From what I can tell and from the Vet's assessment at the moment he appears to have no obvious neurological impairment (knocking wood . . .). He is definitely not as lively nor responsive as usual but thank . .. whomever ... his motor function appears normal at this time. The Vet gave him a full range of tests this morning (hopping, walking backwards, etc.) and he did well.
Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? No.
I asked the vet about that this morning and they have someone at the practice who does acupuncture but she said it wasn't warranted at this moment and I agree -- my immediate focus is on getting him set up for his conservative care regimen / restricted movement.
Again thanks so so much!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 3, 2014 11:13:56 GMT -7
From our supplies list which has lots more essential tips for making crate rest go smoother www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm-Tamara's homemade lowering of crate roof to prevent standing on hind legs: Cut a cardboard box to the length and width of the crate. Punch holes around the cardboard edges. Use string or plastic ties to attach the cardboard inside the crate at a height that only allows standing up, but not room to jump up or stand on hind legs. -Option 2 to keep dog from jumping in crate. Drape blanket to head height of standing dog, so he can't see if he jumps or stands on hind legs.  Hope Fudge did dodge a bullet with his escape...just keep an eye on him for worsening neuro or increased pain signaling there was a further tear to the disc. </span>If Fudge is being rambunctious in his recovery suite, then you may need to help him relax. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/ Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Avoid if glaucoma, lung disease, heart disease, some forms of thyroid disease, prostate disease or high blood pressure. |
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Post by Martin & Fudge on May 3, 2014 11:21:26 GMT -7
So so helpful!! Thanks so much!!!
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Post by Martin & Fudge on May 4, 2014 15:15:04 GMT -7
Hello and again my sincere appreciation for all the great advice. I think we have Fudge's pen set up right and have our routine down, though as you know it's hard! Have to keep reminding ourselves that it's for his own good and that if we can be strict for a short while now we'll have him around and healthy for many years to come (you can see how I did on the marshmallow test . . . not so good).
ONE QUESTION -- Fudge has been doing quite a lot of stretching -- stretching his back legs out, doing his 'downward dog' yoga pose, things he normally does but with greater frequency and intensity. Is this OK? Is it good, bad, an indicator of something important about his condition? I don't know that there's much we can do about it but if there is anything to be gleaned from this I'd like to know. If not . . . then not.
Much thanks.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471 
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Post by Sabrina on May 4, 2014 20:04:11 GMT -7
Hi Martin, I'm Sabrina. I'm so sorry you and Fudge have to go through this - but I'm so glad you're here at Dodger'sList! It sounds like Fudge is feeling better if he can stretch without pain!  If Fudge is just getting himself comfortable, that's good. But if he's doing something like "play bows" trying to get you to play with him, he probably will need help being calm (see the strategies Paula listed above). (Also, if his recovery suite is too large, that might make him want to move around more - a good rule of thumb is that the recovery suite should be as wide as Fudge is long, and the length should be 1.5x as long as Fudge. That basic size will let him adjust his position to get comfortable but not give him so much room that he'll move around too much) You are doing a great job for Fudge! Glad you are getting into a routine - that will help you so much! IVDD stinks. But you will get through this! ))Hugs!(( |
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If Fudge is just getting himself comfortable, that's good.