Katie's Lucy 3/13 conservative

Katie, I'm glad you made it over here.  We've put her new crate rest date to have started on Mar 13 is that about  right?

I would avoid the ice pac on her back, nothing pushing, touching the back would be best.

Can you bring us up to date on:
-- pain....  shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight?
-- What meds is she currently on? Exact names, dose in mg and how often you give them.
-- Can she move her back legs at all? At potty time does she even attempt to lower herself to pee?  Can she wag her tail due to being happy to get a treat or if you do some happy talk to her?
-- Was the jump off the bed associated with any arising pain or worsening of neuro functions? What was the date of the jump off the bed?

I"m sorry I'm a little fuzzy if you have already said.... but what is the reason to wait to see a neuro in two weeks when she needs help today?  Can your vet prescribe for her if she is in pain?  Have you called your local DVM to tell him of the worsening neuro functions. Is there a suspicion this is not IVDD and you want a specialist to give a firm diagnosis?

Are you using a sling at potty times as a back up to keep her spine aligned and her rear from tipping over? Only just a very, very few footsteps to take care of business?

Let take thing one step at a time and never give up hope! The key thing is that Lucy is not in pain...so let us know and what the vet says in the morning about worsening neuro functions.

The reason for a vet is to get meds on board to deal with inflammation such as Rimadyl. Most often pain is associated with a disc tearing, a disc episode. Please put on your detective had and determine if she is suffering with pain. Is the shivering due to being chilled and goes away with a nice warm blankie from the dryer? Or is the shivering/trembling associated with being moved because it hurts to move? Does she move slower than usual because it hurts to move?

Anytime Rimadyl, a NSAID, is being used the stomach must be protected. Buy the brand X of Pepcid AC at any grocery store. They can help you find a brand X containing only one active ingredient, famotidine.   Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not to take Pepcid?"   If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving  doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID.

All vets receive the title Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (DVM) upon graduation. If they go on for more education to become a specialist then they would add another acronym after DVM such as neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS).

Find a new general DVM vet if you are not happy with the current one. Really anytime these powerhouse meds are in use, vet supervision is needed.  Pawn something, borrow something, call in favors, but it would be wise for Lucy to be under a vet's care.  How to go about finding a new vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm

Hi Katie, my name is Lisa. Just chiming in here. Be sure to check our database for a good IVDD vet - there may be one in your area:
pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dodgerslist/database [NOTE: This Yahoo group is closed to new members; only existing members would have access to the old files there]

Acupuncture and laser light therapy are excellent complementary treatments for IVDD. They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of inducing a state of well-being. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/

Glad you will be calling the vet for a refill of the Rimadyl. The stomach protectant is Pepcid AC (generic name is famotidine). The usual dose is 5 mg given 30 minutes before each dose of Rimadyl, just get your vet's permission to give it. If you believe Lucy is in any pain, ask the vet for a prescription of Tramadol.

Here is a link to help you safeguard your home for the IVDD dog. It may come in handy when you move: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm

Since Lucy still has most of her neurological functions, she has a good chance at a full recovery. Practice strict crate rest so that disc can fully heal. Discs take longer than even bones. I know keeping a dog crated for 8 weeks is difficult, but it really is necessary. Be creative about crate rest. You can place her crate on your bed (against a wall for support) and sleep next to her that way, or you can place the crate on a sturdy nightstand next to your bed. You can use a playpen instead of a crate if she enjoyed an open-air environment better. Place the crate outside for a bit while you garden, etc. Here are dvds to keep her entertained and to calm her while you're gone: petsittervideos.com/
www.petmusic.com/

Surgery prices vary depending on the vet. Surgery for my dog was $4,500. I have seen a price range on here of anywhere between $2,500 up to $6,500. Surgeons usually will not operate on a dog that can walk and will reserve surgery for acute disc ruptures, when time is of the essence. Of course, if a dog's pain cannot be controlled during conservative treatment, or if more than one round of anti-inflammatory fails to eliminate the swelling on the spinal cord, then surgery also may be necessary. We have seen many people who could not afford surgery and were successful with conservative treatment. Feel free to browse through our Success Stories to get an idea of the varied recoveries of our members' pups. The goal of recovery is that the dog is pain-free, whether walking or not! Although many dogs do have walking recoveries, paralyzed pups also have a great quality of life and simply use a cart to get around.

We look forward to hearing how she does throughout crate rest. Best wishes, ~Lisa

Hi Katie, you will need to join that group as a member. Then you can access the info. ~Lisa

Well Lucy isn't doing too much better. We got the Rimadyl and more of the anti inflammatory (always forget the name) and she seemed to be walking a tad bit better for a day or two but now she barely has any movement at all in her back legs. She's pretty much just dragging them. She's in good spirits and since it's spring she wants to run and chase after things but of course a) we don't let her and b) she can't get that far. It boosts my spirit to see her not really paying attention to her legs not working.

We still haven't taken her to specialist. Believe me, it's not because we don't want to but the financial situation is that we cannot afford to take her and it's killing me. We're struggling right now so we just have to wait.

I pinch her back paws to test if she can feel anything and it takes a pretty strong pinch for her to feel it, but she DOES feel it eventually. Her tail isn't wagging as much, it's mostly straight up though.

We just have to wait and hope she still has enough movement to make a recovery once we explore more options. Luckily, with my job there will be a lot more income coming in soon and we'll be able to afford more for her but just not for a week or two.

I think we need to learn how to express her bladder because she's having a tough time going. She's holding it in a very long time until she can't hold it any longer. I try to use the sling but she doesn't like it and won't go potty with it on. But I don't know how much longer she will be able to potty on her own at all.

I'm so upset...but I'm trying to look at wanting better quality for her even if she has to have wheels.

Katie, Rimadyl IS the anti-inflammatory.  What is the exact name of any other  meds she is on?  Is she on a stomach protector, Pepcid AC (5mg 30 mins before Rimadyl and thereafter every 12 hours)?

Do you see a any hints or signs of pain yesterday or today?   - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy.

Continue to make sure Lucy has no opportunity to drag her legs at potty time.  Also avoid any pinching or tickling of her paws as it can cause  undo movement of the back. Most general vets are not practiced or trained to correctly identify what they see, so you likely will not either.  Tail wagging with joy is what you can watch for and correctly identify.

Are you bringing her out to potty every 4-6 hours?  If after 1-2 minutes she does not pee, then pick  her up and try in an hour.  Has she been leaking on you when  lifted...that is a sign of lost bladder control.  Do you see her licking her bottom...that could be a sign of a UTI.  UTI's can be painful and thus a dog may  not wish to urinate but hold it in.  A healthy dog who can control their bladder would want to pee every 4-6 hours.  Not all UTIs have an odor or change in color.... that is why a urinalysis is needed to see if infection is present, getting anti-biotics on board to keep infection to moving  up into the kidneys where it can become life threatening.

We all have our fingers crossed for Lucy.

Hi, Tom. Learning to express is a new skill... so give yourself a break...if necessary express in the vet's office and have them check your work, the pressure and how much urine you get out.

Now, when you say she hasn't be able to potty, are you saying you are not finding any leaks in her bedding and she also does not leak on you when lifted? Urine in the bedding and leaking on you are signs she does not have bladder control.

Do you find any poops in her bedding showing lack of bowel control? Usually bladder and bowel control happen at the same time.

Is she in pain.... shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? Especially if after being moved or close to the next dose of meds? If yes, that needs to be addressed asap today. Pain would make her not want to move, not want to potty. Another painful thing can be a urinary tract infection...making it burn to urinate...very painful. The longer urine stays in the bladder past 4-6 hours the more likely bacteria will start to grow.

Can you get to your vet or an ER vet to help you today with expressing, help get her pain meds right. Rimadyl is not a pain reliever. We are at a disadvantage because we have not been updated on all the meds she is currently taking. Is she on Pepcid AC, a stomach protector?

Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the taper the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain.

Before expressing are you warming a towel in the dryer to try to help relax her stomach muscles for expressing? By now her bladder should be so full you won't be able to feel the bladder as such... it will flll the entire tummy area. Just light pressing such as even when lifting her up may cause urine to be expressed.

What is the exact name of any other  meds she is on?  Is she on a
stomach protector, Pepcid AC (5mg 30 mins before Rimadyl and thereafter
every 12 hours)? Pepcid AC (Famotidine is the generic) is available at any grocery store or pharmacy and it's important. The last thing Lucy needs is bleeding ulcers.


Here are several links for you to research for financial assistance:

www.thepetfund.com/ and www.uan.org/index.cfm?navid=163 and www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/trouble_affording_veterinary_care.html
www.help-a-pet.org/
www.speakingforspot.com/helppayingforveterinarycare.html
www.theamericandogmag.com/non-profit/resources-veterinary-bills-financial-assistance

She does have bladder control. She has not peed in her cage and IF I were to let her drag her legs to find a spot to pee (I saw this in the few days she really stopped using her legs and TRUST ME I didn't let that last very long as to not let her walk around too much) and she would just pee but then her legs and paws would get soaked in the pee so that is why we started using the sling. She doesn't seem to have enough mobility to lower herself to pee so she finds a spot and then proceeds to let the pee flow out as she's walking. You can tell she has control over whether or not she pees, not the sling doing it for her.

I have not been into the vet yet...I understand it should be higher on the priority list but I just wasn't able to get in during vet hours this past week.

Her meds are the same as they have been for the past couple of weeks.

Today she seemed to be in a small amount of pain. I can't seem to tell if it's her losing feeling in her lower body or if it is pain. There's little opportunity to see because she's confined to her crate so much. When I go to pick her up out of her crate she seems to be very stiff, I try to grab her in a way that I am supporting her back BUT when she is laying certain ways in the crate it is hard to get a good grip on her because her legs don't move. I would say on a scale of 1-10 for pain, 10 being in extreme pain she SEEMS to be at a 2 or 3. As for mobility or feeling in her back legs on a scale of 1-10, 10 being full feeling, she's at a 2. She has just enough feeling to pee and poop and that's it. I try to set her up standing but she topples over. She does wag her tail a little bit but it's mostly stiff.

I will try to take some video tomorrow of me getting her out of her crate to give you a better idea.

We have been strict about crate rest always. At nighttime I snuggle with her for a bit while everyone sleeps and that's it, I don't trust her so I'm strict.

Katie, I would also ask you for help. Please list her meds (name, dose in mg, dose frequency)

The list should have not just rimadyl on it, but the stomach protector Pepcid AC and possibly a pain reliever such as the one list mentioned, Tramadol.

Pain is not legs being stiff, that is nerve damage. Pain is shivering, yelping, won't move much because it hurts. So if you are seeing signs of pain, Lucy needs your help to avoid suffering...she would need a pain reliever in addition to Rimadyl. Please confirm what you observe for any signs of pain....as that helps us to be more helpful to you.

Thank you for confirming bladder control by the description of what she does at potty time. I do believe she has bladder control. This is a good sign that she could repair her nerves enough for walking to return at some point. Not necessarily during these 8 weeks of strict rest, but maybe.

The important thing we are concerned about now is:
1. Is her pain under control... no shivering, no yelping, no tight tense tummy muscles
2. Do you have her stomach protected against bleeding ulcers with Pepcid AC (famotidine)

Now that we know she has bladder control and her pain is being fully controlled by the Tramadol, I think Lucy is poised to have a good recovery!  The important thing that you can do to ensure that is to continue with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for the balance of the  8 weeks.  

How are you doing with expressing?  Does she now stay drying inbetween the expressing sessions?

Can you give us a current update on her leg use. Can she move her legs at all?  If not, you must do some very, very lightest and  least aggressive range of motion and leg massage necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK and the red numbered steps pertains to a dog who can't walk.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm

It is good news that Lucy is happy and raring to go! That means she feels good - no pain. I understand being anxious to get Lucy back to normal, and this is where patience is a virtue, lol. That disc must fully heal before Lucy is allowed to slowly be reintroduced into activities.

Since Lucy has tail wagging ability, that means she has deep pain sensation. You think she also has bladder control (I assume you have seen her release urine on her own during potty breaks?), and that is also a neurological function. So with continued strict crate rest, she may start to show mobility in her legs. I mention this because some members accidentally order a cart too soon, and then in a few more weeks, their dogs stand on their own again. So be sure to wait until at least after the full 8 weeks of crate rest are over to order a cart, especially with a dog like Lucy who has some neurological function.

Hang in there - before too much longer, crate rest will be over. Best wishes, ~Lisa

Braces are really not recommended UNLESS you are working with a board certified neuro surgeon and he has given an Rx for a brace. Dr. Isaacs from the Dodgerlist Neuro Corner answered why: dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/backbraces.htm

Hi Katie!  Happy crate rest Graduation day!!!  
I am so excited that Lucy took some steps last night. Yeah!  That is fabulous news!  Keep it up Lucy!  She will need to gradually build up her stamina and her muscles.  Also prepare your home to be doggie back friendly.  Please read this link about easing back into life after crate rest.  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm