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Post by fayola on Mar 29, 2013 18:52:15 GMT -7
My black and tan doxie, Popo, turns 4 in a few weeks and he's hurt.  He has lived with my parents for the last 2 years due to restrictions at my condo. There he went from being an indoor dog to an outdoor dog and he has loved running in the yard and unfortunately leaping from heights of about 20 inches. We have not been able to get him to stop jumping and now, as I've feared, he has hurt himself.
He was walking slowly up stairs he used to bound up and he yelped when my mom tried to lift him. After 2 days I took him to the vet (21st March).
The vet did a physical examination (no x-rays) and noticed that his stomach was tense and he yelped when he pressed along his back towards the middle just after the ribcage.
He gave him a steroid shot and a shot of painkiller and sent me home with some medication that I gave him for about 3-4 days. One of the packages says 0.5 mg of Dex, I no longer have the package of the second. Within a very short time he was back to his old self running and playing.
On the 27th he started walking slowly up the 3 steps to the porch again. I took him back to my place on the night of the 28th and observed him all day today (29th). He seems to be walking normally, but he slides slowly down when he wants to lie down. He wagged his tail at me and he played with his toys a bit. But mostly he has not moved around much and has lain in his crate for most of the day. He is eating and drinking normally and his poop looks normal as well.
I haven't tried to lift him or touch his back so I don't know if that will hurt, but he just doesn't look like himself and I am very upset. I want to help him. What should I do?
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 29, 2013 19:20:29 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Fayola! I am so sorry to hear that Popo is experiencing a Disc episode..Been through it with my Tyler and it is very upsetting and scary. First thing, he needs to see a Veterinarian that is experienced in dealing with IVDD..He needs to be on medication longer than just 4 days, Disc problems are extremely painful. He should be crated for 8 weeks 24/7 except a potty time of very few steps to minimize further injury to his discs and spine. No more steps or jumping or rough play.. Please read up on IVDD from the link below so you know how to advocate for Popo. He needs you make sure he gets the right care and medicines.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmHow to lift and carry: Please update us when Popo has been seen again by the Veterinarian ( make that ASAP) and what medications he has been put on and the dosage and frequency. Read below about the need for Pepcid AC and also speak to your Vet about this.. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlwww.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/stomachProtection.htmwww.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspxAnother vet drug site: www.drugs.com/vet/dogs-a.html"increased secretion of gastric acid, decreased mucus production "via www.crvetcenter.com/glucocorticoids.php Adapted from: Plumb, DC. Veterinary Drug Handbook, PharmaVet Publishing, White Bear Lake, Minnesota. 1991 I feel for you and Popo.. and we are here to help! |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 29, 2013 20:58:12 GMT -7
Fayola, I'm so very sad to hear that Popo did not receive the single most important part of the care he needed and has had a relapse! 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks ….No steps, no stairs, no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. Limited movement to save his spinal cord from paralysis and avoid surgery. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe from other pets and kids from bothering them. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. So to help him this is what needs to be done right away. 1. Get him his recovery suite (crate, expen) 2. ASAP first thing in the am, he needs help for the pain he is suffering from (reluctance to move IS pain) 3. Quickly get up to speed with the information on typical meds used with IVDD and understand just how conservative treatment works... This link that Pauliana gave will give you a wonderful overview...just the thing to put you in a position to advocate strongly for Popo's needs. Here it is again:www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm In the morning let us know that Pepcid AC is on board, what the exact names of all meds, their dose in mg and how often you can give them. Have no patience with pain, it must be under control within the hour of his meds and there after dose to dose. Pain deters healing. Give Pogo a great big kiss and tell him now things are going to be ok because you are quickly setting out to be a reader of the things you need to know in caring for him. Not all vets know disc disease, but you can be an owner who does!  |
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Post by fayola on Mar 31, 2013 8:35:30 GMT -7
Thank you so much for your kind words and advice. An update: I took Popo to a different vet yesterday. He was given another steroid shot and a 5-day course of Dex. I asked about the Pepcid AC and was told because the course was short it was not necessary. I was also advised to crate him for a week.
I kept him in the crate but when I took him out at potty time he was so excited and wagged his tail and scurried about. I also had to hold him to stop him from jumping. This made me even more nervous so I admit that I haven't been strict about him being in the crate all the time. I let him out for about 5 - 10 minutes when he walks around a little or lies on the floor. This seems to have helped him stay calm when he's let out to potty.
Do you have any advice about how I can keep him calm during potty time, so that I can be strict about the crate time? Should I maybe get a bigger crate?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 31, 2013 9:49:42 GMT -7
Fayola, Dex is notorious in the medical community for the damage it can do to the stomach. Popo does not need another problem on top of the disc episode he is dealing with. Did you specifically phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: " Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. What country do you live in? Pepcid AC is over the counter in some and an Rx item in others. I know it is hard to wrap your mind around just how important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks is to Popo's disc. This will take reading to make this concept part of you. At potty time only a very few footsteps to get the job done. No 5-10 mins walking ....this kind of excess movement can spell more pain and a prolonged healing period for Popo. His recovery depends on your ability to read, view the video clip and then apply what you have learned..this page is really a wonderful overview on what conservative treatment is all about www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm Do take a look at it today...the more you know and the sooner you know the better chances Popo has. Any time out of the the recovery suite is a dangerous time. It is necessary only to be out at potty times and vet visits. When out of the crate use a harness, a leash and a sling if Popo is wobbly. At potty time carry him to and from the potty place. Give him a couple of minutes and a very, very few footsteps to take care of business. If he does nothing, then try again in an hour. The recovery suite should only be large enough to turn around in, stand up and when lying down his legs can be fully stretched out. What kind of recovery suite are you using: wire crate or plastic airline crate? Do you see any signs of pain pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight? Dex is not a pain reliever. What is the exact dose in mg and how often are you to give Dex? What was the exact name of the steroid shot the new vet gave? Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of Dex for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the taper the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain. So let us know the Pepcid AC (famotidine) is on board, if Popo is showing any signs of pain and that you are doing 100% STRICT rest now.... only out at potty times with a leash, harness to control speed and a sling if he is wobbly to protect his rear from tipping over and keeping the spine aligned. |
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Post by fayola on Apr 2, 2013 13:51:59 GMT -7
Thanks again for your reply.
Update: He is in the crate most of the time now, just out at potty times. It is still hard to restrict him to only taking a few steps at potty time though. The leash helps. I also believe that the crate he's in(the plastic airplane type) may be a bit small because while he sleeps in there seemingly comfortably, he doesn't stretch out all the way like he would on the floor. Can this do more harm while I search for a bigger crate for him? I live in Trinidad and it is not so easy to find these types of pet supplies.
He is not showing any of the signs of pain that you have described. Because of this, and because I was not able to get any of the Pepcid AC I have not given him the Dex that the vet sent us home with. She told me if he doesn't seem to be in pain I may not need to give him, so long as I keep him in the crate.
Question: Is there anyway to get him to go to the potty at specific times? Right now I take him out when he starts to fret, which usually means he has to go. I'm worried that he will have an accident in the crate if someone is not around when he starts to signal that he's ready. Any suggestions?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 3, 2013 7:48:26 GMT -7
Fayola, this is good news then if Pogo is not showing any signs of pain. Dex is an anti-inflammatory which works on getting swelling resolved. So if there is no swelling, then there is no pain and there would be no need to be on Dex. In Trinadad Pepcid AC goes under the Brand name Quamtel (active ingredient is famotidine) www.egeneralmedical.com/rxlist00000301.html I do not know if it is an Rx item in your country, though. The reason to give you this information is that with disc disease there can be other episodes during Popo's lifetime. Be prepared and armed with knowledge, be proactive to protect his stomach should he be prescribed any NSAID or any steroid again. You may wish to start a folder for quick reference on Popo's disease.
Since he is no longer on Dex, he'll not be drinking more water and thus he should be back to his normal time potty time schedule. For most dogs that is every 4-6 hours.
You may find setting up an exercise pen (ex-pen) or some of that gardening edging fencing you poke in the ground to be help at potty times. The 6 foot diameter area would be both a visual and physical barrier to let him know there will not be any sniff fests going on. Set him down in the fenced area. Give him 1-2 minutes and if he does'n't go try again in an hour. At time you see him just about ready to pee, then give the commend "go potty" ; praise lavishly when he does. Soon you will have him pottying on command.
Most dogs do not do well in the plastic airline crates as the visibility is so limited. I highly recommend a pet stroller with the strong caveats you should read about here www.dodgerslist.com/literature . /strollers.htm as you can keep him with you during the day as you move around the house. Any recovery suite does need to allow him to fully stretch out his legs if he wants to.
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He has lived with my parents for the last 2 years due to restrictions at my condo. There he went from being an indoor dog to an outdoor dog and he has loved running in the yard and unfortunately leaping from heights of about 20 inches. We have not been able to get him to stop jumping and now, as I've feared, he has hurt himself.
