Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member 
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135 
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Apr 25, 2014 3:16:50 GMT -7
Hi,
Not sure if I should start a new thread or continue this one but I'm extremely sad to inform that Hurley experienced a relapse a few weeks ago and we are back to strict crate rest. He was doing really well post 3rd surgery (Jan'14) but getting more and more active around the house (NO stairs / jumping). Suddenly one evening he yelped when I picked him up. I noticed some tenderness in one small area in his back - he would not really allow touching of the area - and tail between legs.
I crated him, and put him on
Rimadyl 20mg once a day and
Methocarbamol 250mg twice a day.
We've been to the vet clinic where he was operated but they could not confirm whether its an injury in the operated area or a new disc just above the operated area. Since all neurological functions are normal except tail between legs they did not talk about MRI/CT scan at this point. So, what we've done so far is 2 laser sessions 1 week apart which seemed to help as the tail became normal within 48 hours, only to return back to between legs the day after. We did one acupuncture session which seemed to help since Hurley was completely back to normal immediately after. However, the effect did not last for very long, only a couple of days. We have another acupuncture session booked for Monday.
I'm extremely sad, but try my best to remain optimistic. The tail is still between the legs but occasionally higher and more normal (like when he pees for instance). When happy to see me, he occasionally wags the tail normally (just below the horizonal back level, not higher), sometimes the tail is a bit between the legs but still wagging. Hurley does not seem to be in any pain, and the back area is not sore anymore, in fact he seems quite normal, high energy and bored in the crate. Eating and drinking as usual.
I guess my question is, I haven't seen anyone else with this type of a strange tail issue. We experienced it before and after this 3rd surgery but the tail slowly became normal some weeks post surgery. Of course, the main reason for the surgery was not the tail but the diminished neurological functions in the back leg and the pain he was in. These two symptoms are not present now as he walks normal (or as normal as he can after 3 surgeries) and the tail is occasionally normal.
I am worried, confused, and looking for some support from my Dodgerslist friends. Any ideas / suggestions are welcome. Hurley is my very best friend in the whole world and my heart will break if I end up losing him to this horrible disease.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 25, 2014 8:10:09 GMT -7
Lola, I'm sorry to hear Hurley is having another disc problem. The good news is you knew the signs and quickly crated and got to the vet!! This is what will likely keep the symptoms mild and not progressing to neuro loss.
The lowered tail has been reported often as an early indicator for a disc problem. As the specialist pointed out it is not possible w/o an expensive $1000+ MRI picture to know if this is a new disc that has prematurely aged or if something is going on with the disc operated on. It does not matter as conservative treatment will have all the discs resting and allowing the one in question to begin to form good secure scar tissue.
Rest during conservative treatment must necessarily be of stricter nature than it was for a post op dog. During the full 8 weeks of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.
Any anti-inflammatory whether that be a steroid such as predisone or a non-steroid anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) such as Rimadyl can cause damage to the GI tract. A stomach protector that reduces acids should be on board. Pepcid AC (famotidine) Let us know that you do have it on board 5mg 30 mins before giving Rimady and thereafter every 12 hours as you had in the past. Also give Rimadyl with a meal for further protection. Do keep the vet in the loop about the famotidine if he had not already prescribed it with the Rimadyl.
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Apr 25, 2014 11:20:28 GMT -7
Thank you Paula for your kind answer, once again. Yes, I have been giving Rimadyl with the morning meal. I am going to go and get an acid reducer first thing tomorrow for him. Actually, I was hoping I would not have to keep him on Rimadyl because he does not seem to be in pain but I guess to help the plausible swelling, I should keep him on it? However, I am planning of taking him off the Methocarbamol this weekend as it does not seem to make much of a difference. Actually, the vet was very reluctant of prescribing any meds - but did recommend keeping him on strict crate rest for a number of weeks. We have the acupuncture on Monday at the clinic so I'll ask again about the meds.
I am having insane amounts of trouble keeping Hurley calm during potty time. As soon as I put him on the ground he tries to scoot, and even on a very, very short leash with a proper padded harness he pulls so hard his stomach touches the ground! And when I get him to stand still, or move slowly, he will try to do something crazy anyway like dig the ground or jump 180 degrees around... I feel I am going crazy thinking he is going to damage himself at potty breaks!! I've never had this problem with him before, since previously during his crate rest he has really very sick or recovering slowly from surgery. Any suggestions or ideas on how to ensure he does not hurt himself outside?
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Apr 25, 2014 11:30:02 GMT -7
Lola, so sorry to hear that Hurley is having another disk episode, but you are on it! Not sure if they have this in Finland, but here in the US we can buy very low fencing that you can just stick into the ground, it is typically used as a decoration around flowers. That might give Hurley the visual he needs to know what his parameters are when he is outside.
Sending healing thoughts for Hurley.
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Apr 30, 2014 22:52:24 GMT -7
Here is somewhat of an update, although I'm not yet sure if this is real progress or not... We dropped the Methocarbamol last weekend. Now we have also dropped the Rimadyl. There aren't any signs of pain. I'm assuming he is better off without the medication, but correct me if I'm wrong - the last thing I want is to slow down the healing process!
The laser and acupuncture seem to help (and/or the crate rest?), e.g. yesterday Hurley was wagging his tail in its normal position and in the evening at potty time he kept the tail occasionally straight and not between the legs. More and more, he straightens the tail completely when peeing & lifting his leg. He will wag the tail when I talk to him. We have also somehow managed to control most of the scooting by being really strict with the potty place. I also have some fence from last summer, but I'm hoping we can manage without it. We have one location in the garden for morning potty, one for afternoon, and one for evening. As he is not able to go for a walk, at least we can have some variety ;-)
Hurley sleeps well and eats well and is overall alert and happy. As he has to stay in the crate 24/7, I am playing him calming music, which he seems to enjoy. I think we have a chance of surviving this episode, too. However, I consulted the neurologists when at the vet clinic for acupuncture on Monday and they said there is a slight chance Hurley's tail will never fully recover, because he's had 3 operations in the lower back area and overall, his condition has been so severe during the past 9 months. They also said I should not necessarily see the tail issue as a sign of pain or discomfort, that it may just be permanent neurological damage. I don't know what to think, I don't care if his tail is up or down, I just want him to get better so that he can graduate the crate rest. Any comments on this?
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 1, 2014 4:05:39 GMT -7
What a wonderful update, Lola! Yes, if he's been able to do without meds and have no pain, that means the swelling has resolved and no more meds are necessary. Excellent progress indeed!! As for the neurologists' statement that his tail may never improve, you've already seen improvement in a very short time. If it is indeed due to nerve damage, nerve damage can certainly heal with time. My Jeremy's neurologist told me he wouldn't show any more improvement three months after his surgery and he was not at a good place at that time. He continued to improve for over a year following his surgery. The continued crate rest for a full 8 weeks will heal the disc and as long as there are no set backs, there should be no reason why he shouldn't graduate from the crate at the end of the 8 weeks. Just continue to keep the strict crate rest with very few steps at potty time to protect his spine until it's healed completely. Very happy that Hurley is doing so well!  |
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 3, 2014 23:30:06 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie! Day by day, I am more optimistic. Although Hurley's tail is still mostly down & curled between the legs, yesterday during potty breaks I saw him holding it high up in its normal position and wagging it, as if everything was normal. So - there CANNOT be any permanent nerve damage?!?!? And, he was scratching his ears and wagging his tail in the crate when I came home. He continues to sleep well and eat well. No signs of any pain, fingers crossed. We must have a chance now!?!? I know I need to be patient but my heart breaks keeping him crated, 5th time within 9 months... He really has not been out of the crate much at all!!! I know I have to endure... somehow... I'm trying to think: this is not as bad as having to go through a FOURTH surgery... Every cloud has a silver lining, I guess. I'm trying to think of all those times he's been paralyzed and I've had to see him learn walk again after the surgeries. I'm trying to think of all those times he's been crazy high medicated, on steroids and diazepam etc... Now, not in pain and without medication, I see he is confused having to sit in the crate, but I'm doing my best keeping him company! I just hope the weather would be warmer, so I could carry the crate to the terrace and we could enjoy the outdoors...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 4, 2014 11:54:44 GMT -7
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 6, 2014 8:15:38 GMT -7
Excellent tips Paula! I have to find out where to get a stroller from, it looks like a great idea. Actually, I've noticed that my back is already hurting trying to carry the crate around the house and lifting onto/from the tables - soon we'll be two with back issues... The rice sock we have made and kept on using, I originally found out about it on this website, so it's been a great help. Also, we've been using 'Back on Track' products, which Hurley seems to enjoy. I have noticed significant improvement in his tail after he has slept all night on the BoT mattress for example. I'm always sure to make it optional for him, so I place it to the other end of the crate, but nine out of ten he chooses to curl up on top of it immediately so I know he likes it. As I write, Hurley is sitting in his crate looking out of the window and making funny noises  - I'm sure he'd prefer to be outside playing with the kids. I really feel (and hope) the worst is behind us... Yesterday evening, he made his first attempt since this relapse started to play with me outside, he looked at me with a sparkle in his eye, and took a bit of a jump backwards with (crooked) tail wagging, as if to initiate a chase with me. You can't even believe how my heart jumped - he and I had a bit of a discussion when we got back inside the house  |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on May 6, 2014 8:53:32 GMT -7
Sounds like Hurley is doing really well Make sure to keep a close eye on him as he is feeling better so he doesn't do anything to re-injure that healing disk. They have absolutely no concept of "rest"...they just think "hey I feel good I must be all better" Lol. Love hearing happy news |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 6, 2014 9:43:48 GMT -7
The BOT mattress www.backontrackproducts.com/Dog-Products/Dog-Travel-Bed/Therapeutic-Dog-Travel-Bed-p342.html sounds like a comforting product. I'm wondering about your placing it "at the other end of the crate". The crate area ought to be just enough room to turn around in, and when lying down to fully stretch out the legs. Is that the case for Hurley's crate area? Glad to hear Hurley is back to feeling like his old self. Now the challenge comes to keep him resting. I think you will really like the stroller to keep Hurley at your side as you move about the house and out on the deck when the weather permits. |
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 7, 2014 6:53:22 GMT -7
Jean, you are so right! I have a handful keeping Hurley still. Yesterday he started to tear his blanket and even attempted to hump the mattress in his crate...! And today, I think the tail is not as good as yesterday. I'm really worried he will reinjure himself and not heal even if in crate rest.
Paula, I see your point & confusion, I think what we have is a smaller mattress, or rather a small blanket (20 x 20 inch + I usually fold it in two), not sold in USA.
Lola
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2014 12:53:52 GMT -7
Lola, may be time to try some calmers to help Hurley relax in his recovery suite? Hopefully you can avoid asking the vet for a more heavy duty sedative. I want to thank you for helping other members. If you feel comfortable, we could use your help when new members post by asking important question to expedite help for the dog. These are the questions that are so helpful in quickly getting things right for a dog: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/27/introduce-dog Thanks again for sharing your ideas and experience with others! |
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 8, 2014 10:44:15 GMT -7
Yes, Paula, definitely no sedatives if we can avoid it. I will try the calmers if necessary, right now we are trying to cope with different nature soundtracks and relocation of crate every few hours or so. (and Yes, I can help by posting the questions when new members join the forum! Thank you for the trust, I will do my very best!)
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 11, 2014 0:24:33 GMT -7
Weather is warming up here. I found a Petzone heatable mattress in the discount section of our local pet store, on 50% sale. It works with keeps a steady, nice temperature of about 83F. I somehow managed to fit it to one of Hurley's crates so he can enjoy the outdoors 15-30 minutes a day from the comfort of his crate in our deck. He seems to enjoy. Also, this morning he was lying on his back in his crate, paws in the air, for the first time since the episode started. He noticed I was watching so he started rubbing his nose with both of his front paws - as if to show that he is fully flexed and can do anything. We celebrate Mother's Day today in Finland, so it's really the best gift I could get as a pet Mommy |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on May 11, 2014 6:57:45 GMT -7
Sounds like he is doing great. Happy Mothers day!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 11, 2014 10:21:43 GMT -7
Now that is a sign of a contented dog, on the back paws in air. Happy mothers day with your Hurley!
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 21, 2014 12:31:32 GMT -7
Nearing up to the end of 6th week of crate rest, if I'm not mistaken! This week, we are making major progress. Tail is up and/or normal all the time when out at potty time, and wagging when something interesting is found. Pace of steps in the potty area is nice and smooth. However, Hurley is complaining a lot (vocally) because he is not able to go outside the designated potty area. He keeps on looking at the neighbors garden, then looks at me, whining. He doesn't understand why such strict limits, and I find myself thinking: why not, what harm could a few more steps do - only to come back to the realization that I could not live with myself if something happened to him at this stage! Furthermore, I finally understand fully why a complete 8 weeks is needed - he is not yet "normal". He is slow, and unpredictable, eager but not yet capable, so crate 24/7 it will be for him, and as few steps at potty time as is possible. Actually, at the end of the day, I think Hurley is pretty happy because there's no pain, only resting, sleeping, eating, and chilling out. I have been able to move the crate outside for one or two hours because the evenings are nice and warm (but not hot) and he is enjoying the outdoors from the comfort of his crate. I keep telling him: 2.5 more weeks, almost there!!!
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Post by Pauliana on May 21, 2014 21:01:07 GMT -7
Hi Lola! Oh I know "the so close but yet so far" feeling, but you are so right in your observations. He is getting better but he's not quite there yet. This is when they feel better and get more anxious about getting out.. But you are on the downhill slope and crate rest graduation day will be here before you know it! Counting the days right along with you! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 22, 2014 8:02:10 GMT -7
Lola, very good news on all the observable signs of being a happy fella with the tail wags plus the good leg movements he can do. You are so right that it is his disc that is not yet "normal". We can't observe the scar tissue forming on the exterior of the disc, but it is becoming stronger and stronger that is what the 8 weeks of rest is dedicated to. After it is safe to do more after graduation, Hurley will likely continue to work on his leg movements so his muscles and nerves will learn again to be better coordinated. Keep up the reports, we LOVE to hear your commitment to the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 it really gives others reading your posts good inspiration.
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Jun 9, 2014 2:32:24 GMT -7
Dear all, I am SO HAPPY to report that WE HAVE GRADUATED 8 weeks of crate rest! Never in a million years would I have thought that my little dog will be back to normal, but I have to believe it now that I see it. He is still weak in his legs, but tail is wagging and you should have seen the look in his eyes when he realized that he was allowed to take a few steps OUTSIDE of his potty area! Inside the house, he is still to remain in his crate, as we start slowly building stamina. I will follow Dodgerslist instructions on how to do this, few minutes at a time each day, gradually building up to more and more freedom. This morning, I allowed him to walk from the crate to the door and he was so happy he would not stop wagging his tail and tried to lick my face when I carried him outside. I'm sure he would do the same to you all if he could! Love, Lola & Hurley  |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Jun 9, 2014 5:14:04 GMT -7
Yay!!! Congratulations on your graduation Hurley and Lola Enjoy being able to hold and snuggle Hurley again! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2014 7:39:43 GMT -7
Lola, wonderful news... the credit goes to you for being conscientious that all 8 weeks were completed to ensure the disc had healed. Love hearing how happy Hurley is upon graduation!!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 10, 2014 4:40:16 GMT -7
Congratulations! You stayed the full course and Hurley has reaped the benefits! Great job, both of you. May Hurley have many happy years ahead with no more disc episodes. |
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- I'm sure he'd prefer to be outside playing with the kids. I really feel (and hope) the worst is behind us... Yesterday evening, he made his first attempt since this relapse started to play with me outside, he looked at me with a sparkle in his eye, and took a bit of a jump backwards with (crooked) tail wagging, as if to initiate a chase with me. You can't even believe how my heart jumped - he and I had a bit of a discussion when we got back inside the house 
