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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 11, 2014 16:23:33 GMT -7
my best friend gus was running to jump up on bed and he tripped on a vhs cable when I got to him he couldn't move his back legs so I got him to the vet in 1 hr. the vet took an x ray and said it looked like he ruptured a disk. he did not have any deep pain sensation in his toes,he was arched and all stiff looking after they gave him morphine.this happened at 7;am and it is now 7:pm and he doesn't seem any better,i am going to go check on him in the morning.i don't know what to do,they said I could take him to the university in saint paul to a neurosurgeon but I don't have the money,they think I should put him down because he is in a lot of pain and they don't think they can do anything for him.i am heartbroken,gus may be a little weiner dog but he always lived his life big does anybody have any advice.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2014 16:52:51 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Paula what is yours? I'm so sorry to hear about this terrible accident. Did the xray show any broken vertebrae with that trip on the cable or did it only show a disc had likely ruptured? With good care from you, you need to know it IS in the cards for Gus to get back to enjoying life. The important thing is pain control so you can care for him while other parts of his body heal. #1 what needs to get better right away is that pain is under control with pain meds. Is the morphine at this point controlling pain? Is your local vet the one giving the morphine? Can you take him to St. PSi aul NOT for the surgery but because specialist have much more experience in controlling pain. You'd be consulting them to get the pain in control so you can do conservative treatment at home. #2 what then starts to get better is the disc can heal with 8 weeks worth of care #3 what may take more than 8 weeks to get better is for Gus' body to self repair nerves. Do not give up on Duke, fight for getting pain under control so you can continue with pain meds at home while doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 This page will help you learn about pain meds and the anti-inflammatory used to get painful swelling down in the spinal cord. Before discussing pain meds, these articles can give you good background information: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmWhen you can please let us know all the meds Gus is on.
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 11, 2014 17:39:24 GMT -7
hi my name is Curtis,my little friends name is gus.he is in a small town hospital,they have him hooked up to iv.they are not open on sunday so I have to drive him 60 miles south to a bigger hospital that has a staff over the weekend.they have him on morphine he is real groggy but he still lays all stiff looking like he is in a lot of pain
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Apr 11, 2014 18:27:19 GMT -7
Hi Curtis, I'm Sabrina. I am so sorry to you and Gus have to go through this, but do know that IVDD (disc disease) by itself does not equal to a death sentence! It is in the cards for an IVDD dog to get back to a happy, pain free life. YES, Your Dog CAN Have a Great Quality of Life! - www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmIf you haven't yet picked up Gus from your local vet, I'd see about getting his x-rays to take with you to the vet south of you (in Saint Paul?). I'm sorry about the long drive to the other hospital. Pad Gus's crate well with rolled up blankets to keep him from sliding around in his crate, and use towels/a quilt underneath his crate so that it sits as level as possible. If you are not already in the process of transporting Gus to the bigger hospital, have a read through as much info as you can on the articles side of the Dodger'slist site. Here's a good place to start: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmIf you are pressed for time start here: 4 Phases of Dealing from a disc episode www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmIn summary: Medications for = Phase 1: total pain control dose to dose of pain meds, while Phase 2: the anti-inflammatory resolves the swelling/inflammation causing the pain. Time and the Body work to = Phase 3: develop secure scar tissue over the 8wks of 100% strict crate rest to protect the healing disc(s) Phase 4: regain neurological function, which can happen weeks, months, or years later. The great thing is that there is no "expiration date" for healing nerves! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmWill you be taking Gus straight from the local hospital to the bigger one, or will be be home overnight? If he'll be coming home, be sure to get pain meds for him. Pain is horrible and hinders the body's healing processes, so full pain control dose to dose is the goal. I live in a small town, and my local vet spoke with the specialist at the nearest hospital (4hrs from us) several times during my dog's conservative (no surgery) treatment. Hopefully the vet at the larger hospital will be confident treating IVDD with meds and crate rest and can help out your local vet. Is Morphine the only med Gus has been given? Did the x-ray show any broken vertebrae? There is hope for Gus! When you are able, let us know how you are doing. ))Hugs!((
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 11, 2014 18:33:41 GMT -7
thank you so much Sabrina,you don't know how much the kind words and hope it brings to me
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 12, 2014 4:11:40 GMT -7
Just wanted to add my encouragement to the excellent advice given by Paula and Sabrina, Curtis. Many dogs do recover from an IVDD episode on conservative care. It can take months, even a year, for nerve damage to heal. But nerves can heal with the proper care. Even if Gus doesn't recover enough to be able to walk, he can still have a wonderful, happy life. It's humans who use that tag of "handicapped". Dogs don't understand handicapped. They just know that they're with their loved ones, have good food, they can run in their carts and they are happy. Try to take it one day at a time. The first goal is to get his pain under control. The 8 weeks of 100% strict 24/7 crate rest, just being carried in and out to potty with very few steps to do potty, will allow the disc to heal. And then time to heal the nerves. If Gus has truly lost deep pain sensation (and that is sometimes difficult to determine), he will also have lost bladder and bowel control. Be sure to get a hands on your hands demonstration on how to express his bladder so you'll be prepared in that's the case. Here's our page on expressing so you'll have some knowledge before your demonstration at the neurologist visit. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm My prayers are with you and Gus. We'll be anxiously awaiting an update. Blessings to you both.
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 12, 2014 12:43:39 GMT -7
hi this is Curtis,i went and picked up gus from the local clinic they said I could do as much for him at home as they could there,they sent home
prednisone 5mg twice a day for 2 weeks.and they sent methocarbamol 125 mg twice daily and tramadol 25 mg 3times daily.
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 12, 2014 16:16:32 GMT -7
Hi Curtis! Emmie and I want you and Gus to know that we are sending our thoughts out to you. Please take some time to learn about Gus's situation on this site and from the moderators before jumping to conclusions and "putting down" your best friend. Disc episodes and IVDD are NOT life ending! Hopefully the drugs you have now will have Gus comfortably resting? If not, you can seek to have them adjusted by the vet. What kind of dog is Gus? How old is he? How much does he weigh? Remember that strict crate rest is Gus's best healing hope so set him up with a top loading kennel so you can help him in/out for potty breaks without hurting him. And if the worst is that Gus ends up paralyzed, which no one knows at this point because everything is all inflamed around his spine, then you'll deal with that too. Please watch this video of Paula's Clark. It gave me great comfort in the early dark days! We have so much to share and help you with, be strong for Gus!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 12, 2014 17:18:48 GMT -7
Curtis, glad to hear Gus in back home!!! This is true dogs tend to heal much better in familiar surroundings with those they love. The important thing in being at home is that pain is fully under control dose to dose of the pain meds (methocarbamol and Tramadol) So do let us know if your are seeing any hints of pain whether when you lift to care for him or nearing the next dose of pain meds: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, not his normal perky self. Do know your vet still has more options he had not yet used to get pain under control. Pain is something we can have no patience with as it is only torture but also hinders the whole healing process. Prednisone is one med that can do damage to the stomach lining (bleeding ulcers) or further down in the intestines. Here at Dodgerslist we have learned by observing 1000s of vets that proactive GI tract protection is really a must. Gus just does not need another problem on top of what he is dealing with. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. AND give Pred with a meal. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm AFter reading the link if you feel Gus has no heart or liver problems, get Pepcid AC started today and keep your vet in the loop when he reopens. Does Gus leak on you when lifted...meaning he has lost bladder control and needs to be expressed not just to keep infection away but to preserve the tone of his bladder. If YES, did you get a hands on top of your hands lesson on expressing the bladder. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Proof of having bladder control is being able to sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then choose to release urine there. Let us know what you have observed. Can he wag his tail if you specifically do some happy talk to him? Have you seen his rear legs move at all exclusive of anything at potty times?
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 12, 2014 19:02:36 GMT -7
hi this is Curtis ,thanks the great advice it is so very nice to be able to talk to people when I need to and get great caring advice.they showed me how to purge gussies bladder, they showed me at noon when I picked him up.i tried to purge him at home at 7:00 and could not get any to come out,but when I picked him up to take him back to his crate he peed on me,i was so happy.any ideas on what I might have done wrong when I was trying to purge him? should I set him down on the floor in the area he normally goes poop?i don't know if he will go poop when I set him down because he cant stand up to poop and I don't want to step away from him because I think he will try and move around.does anybody have any advice please?
thank you so very much,i would love to hear more from yuo's
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 12, 2014 20:03:47 GMT -7
Hi Curtis, I'm Pauliana.. welcome to Dodgerslist! Can you express Gus over a pee pad? Another good place would be the shower or tub for easy clean up. Just make sure there is a non slip mat on the tub surface so Gus won't slip. Lots of tips, pictures and videos in the article on expressing. Have you read the article and watched the videos on expressing in this link that was posted for you earlier? Maybe reviewing that would help. It's also ok to go to the vet clinic and get another lesson on expressing. It takes practice but soon you will have it down pat. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Sending healing thoughts and prayers across the miles..
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 13, 2014 8:28:18 GMT -7
Hi Curtis, the expressing (for pee and poo) is a big learning curve (well it was for me). Emmie would not cooperate by letting go - and yes we took great advantage of the beginnings of an "excita-piddle" and would then push on the bladder to purge the rest. It takes learning your Gus - his anatomy and his preference. Some do it lying on a pee pad, some want a sling to support the back end. The bottom of this link has some Potty Support sling links. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm I just re-read your first post - sorry we all missed it - Gus is a weenie! Is he a mini or a standard? I think this is all of us just fishing for a picture of your fur baby.
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 16, 2014 18:26:08 GMT -7
well it is day 6 since gus had his accident,i think he is doing ok considering.i keep him in his crate 24-7 only picking him up to go pee.i rest him on his front legs and hold up his backend and try to purge the pee from him,i get some out but I am not sure I get it all,sometimes it feels empty and I get out very little.ive noticed a lot of pee at times on his pad.i think he may be going on his own.he does not have much of an appetite and I am having a hard time getting him to take his pills
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 16, 2014 18:41:59 GMT -7
gus does not want to eat anything so I cant hide his pills,any suggestions
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 16, 2014 18:46:27 GMT -7
gus wants to sit up in his crate I am afraid he will hurt himself,should I rotate the side he lays on
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 16, 2014 19:09:18 GMT -7
Hi Curtis, you're doing awesome providing a safe crate environment for Gus and following the 24/7 crate rest except to potty. I have no expertise in expressing a male dog so I'll let the moderators jump in on that - have you watched the videos on this site? They are mostly male. I will however share my pill magic! I make a mixture of half plain yogurt and half peanut butter and then put it in a Ziploc and cut a corner off - squeeze little buttons onto a wax papered cookie sheet, and then press a pill into it; if the pill is big squirt some on top too. Freeze them and then put them in a little container and back in the freezer. Emmie gets her pills like this and I have never had one spit out or "returned" to me. She looks forward to it! She's been taking horse pills like this for months.
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 16, 2014 19:45:06 GMT -7
good idea,i will give it a try.thank you very much
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 16, 2014 20:52:25 GMT -7
Hi Curtis, Not eating is a red flag warning of stomach damage from the Prednisone. I see no mention of Gus taking Pepcid AC (generic if Fomotidine) as Paula mentioned to you in her earlier post. Prednisone is one med that can do damage to the stomach lining (bleeding ulcers) or further down in the intestines. Here at Dodgerslist we have learned by observing 1000s of vets that proactive GI tract protection is really a must. Gus just does not need another problem on top of what he is dealing with. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. AND give Pred with a meal. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm AFter reading the link if you feel Gus has no heart or liver problems, get Pepcid AC started today and keep your vet in the loop when he reopens. 1) North Carolina Univerisity recognizes the high incidence of GI irritation in dogs with disc problems. The reasons are that pain and body changes are stresses. Just as humans can experience ulcers when under stress, dogs can also. NCU and 11+ hospitals working with NCU prescribe a GI protectant. Dogs presented to NCU with IVDD often develop GI upset whether they are given steroid medications or not. www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/tc/clinical_services/neuro/acute_disc.htmlDon't delay for Gus' sake, get him on Pepcid AC and also ask the vet for Sucralfate to heal his damaged stomach lining. Hopefully when his tummy feels better he will eat again.. Keep trying to get him to eat.. entice him with his favorite foods.. Make sure there is no Tramadol dust on your fingers being transfered to the goodie you are putting it in.. Tramadol is very bitter and tastes terrible and once they get a taste of it, they are very suspicious of taking pills.. Went through that with my Tyler and he watched every move I made in the kitchen and refused to take anything that he thought might have a pill in it.. Vita had a great idea with the half yoghurt and peanut butter treats to hide the pills in..
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 17, 2014 11:14:00 GMT -7
just had gus to the vet,he has gained some movement in his left leg,they figured he was not eating because of stomach discomfort,they had given him pepsid last mondayand today they gave him sucralfate and also reduced his ▼ pregnazone a little.it looks like he is retaining a little water that is why they reduced his pregnazone.being he has a little sensation in his leg he wants to move around in the crate,i really cant stop that and I hope he doesn't hurt himself.i have noticed a lot of pee on his pad when I go to get him up to purge him,is it possible he can pee when he wants to?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,597
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 17, 2014 11:23:45 GMT -7
Curtis good news on movement in his leg!
Can you fill us in on the details of his meds...that let's us be better in supporting you.
prednisone as of 4/12: 5mg twice a day for 2 weeks. how many mg for each dose and how many times a day now? methocarbamol 125 mg 2x/day tramadol 25 mg 3x/day Pepcid AC -- 5mg 2x/day; is that still on board along with the sucralfate. It should be! Sucralfate - how many mgs, how many times a day. -- Give Sucralfate on an empty tummy 1 hour before feeding -- Give Pepcid AC 30 minutes after Sucralfate -- 30 minutes after Pepcid AC give Prednisone , Tramadol, methocarbamol with a meal
Are you manually expressing the bladder every 2-3 hours? That is how to keep him dry.
How to test if bladder control is returning The only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 17, 2014 12:10:46 GMT -7
Hi Curtis - Emmie used to really wet her pad - it seemed as though she could, maybe involuntarily, purge her bladder. If I caught her in time, I could express. If I didn't, it was like it would just "go". So she didn't have control but at the same time, her bladder was not over-filling and causing problems because it would empty itself. So basically she didn't have control over holding it or making it come out. Now she has control over holding it and releasing it. Just takes time!
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Post by Curtis & Gus on Apr 17, 2014 18:58:29 GMT -7
thank you for the info it is very helpful and encouraging
I have to be out of town for a few days,the vet said I could leave gus with him.the purging part is the hard part and the handling that goes with it,i feel like I do a pretty good job of it but I worry about letting anybody else do it. I know the vet can do it but I hope leaving him in a strange place wont be to hard on him and set him back
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 18, 2014 4:28:23 GMT -7
In preparation for leaving him at the vet's office, it's a good idea to make a sign to put on his crate - with details like his med schedule, that he is on 100% Crate Rest and maybe a picture of the correct way to lift him. That way all the details are on his crate and you don't have to worry if someone on the staff hasn't been filled in on how to care from him during his IVDD episode.
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 20, 2014 9:00:09 GMT -7
Hi Curtis, I had to leave Emmie with a friend and trust me the "instruction sheet" was huge and I felt bad loading it on to someone. You are lucky the vet said you could leave Gus there - you'd hope that would be the best place for him to get care - especially if he flares up or anything. I love Marjorie's idea about a sign with the pertinent info (I'd probably add some more instructions about things he likes/needs so maybe someone who has time can love on him )We like to think that medical animal centres would know how to treat Gus - but there is nothing wrong with safe over sorry! Can you ask them for updates via text or something? Just for your piece of mind...he is your best friend after all.
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