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Post by Molly & Lucy on Apr 3, 2014 8:35:09 GMT -7
Hi All,
Lucy is 5.5 years old and just had surgery on Saturday. This is the 2nd of my 3 dachshunds to have had the surgery. However, Lucy's appears to have been much more serious than the first as her recovery has been very different so far. She came home on this Tuesday and had to come home with a catheter in place. My other dachshund that had the surgery did not have to come home with a catheter. My question for you all:
1) Since my first dachshund apparently had a very quick recovery, how long is typical before seeing the infamous tail waig?
2) The catheter is making me crazy! I'm so paranoid it isn't flowing right. Yesterday I took her back to the vet because I thought it was blocked only for them to tell me it's fine. Any advice here?
Thanks so much,
Molly
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 3, 2014 9:12:47 GMT -7
Molly, welcome to Dodgerslist. Because each dog is different, there really is not a timeline to give you for return of neuro functions. There is a typical order they return in that you can look for: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. You'll find comfort in learning all you can about this disease, not just for your own emotions but to be able to speak up for Lucy if the occasion arises or even for your other dachshunds. This is our treasure trove on All Things IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmWas there a reason you were not shown how to manually express the bladder? Too overweight to feel for the bladder, just hard to express? If not a last resort reason for using the catheter, then I would ask for a lesson. Expressing is non-invasive, avoids scaring, avoids the needs to be critically hygenic, allows you to do the sniff and pee test to ascertain if bladder control is coming back. Review before a lesson to get more out of the hands on top of your hands lesson www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm You can also express for poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poopCan you fill us in on a bit more detail so we can be of better support: -- are you doing STRICT crate rest 24/7 other than potty times and the PT your surgeon directed. What did he direct for crate rest and PT? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- How much does your dog weigh? What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and frequencies? Anti-inflammatories can increase GI tract damage. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm -- Eating and drinking OK? How are poops today- normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood? -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.
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Post by Molly & Lucy on Apr 3, 2014 9:43:27 GMT -7
To be honest, I didn't know you could express a bladder. I'll have to call and ask the Dr. She's not overweight though.
Yes, strict cage rest. She doesn't come out to potty since she's on the catheter. PT directed was just range of motion and standing for a minute at a time - a 2-3 times a day.
No signs of pain.
Weight is probably about 13lbs Prednisone 5mg - Tapering dose Tramadol 50mg
Yes - Eating and drinking ok. Poop looked normal today.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 3, 2014 16:31:05 GMT -7
Hi Molly!
How often are you to give the Tramadol per day? For example Tyler was prescribed 1/2 of a 50 mg tablet 3 times a day.. What is the tapering dose of the Prednisone and what was the original dosage and how many times per day??
Let us know what the Vet has to say about Expressing and how your lesson goes.. Hope watching the video and reading the link Paula gave you on expressing helps you get more out of the lesson..
Healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy..
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Post by Molly & Lucy on Apr 4, 2014 4:55:48 GMT -7
Today is day 3 since she's been on the 13lbs Predisone 5mg. The label reads 1/2 tablet every 12 hours for 3 days, then 1 a day for 3 days, then every other day untl gone. Tramadol 50 mg is 1/2 tablet every 12 hours or as needed.
I talked to the vet about expressing a bladder and she said she usually only recommends that for compltely/permanently paralyzed dogs for 3 reasons 1) difficulty in doing it, 2) catheter is more comfortable for dog as they never have feel pain of full bladder, 3) expressing bladder never empties it 100% so there is always some urine in the bladder.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2014 8:02:32 GMT -7
The vet you talked with about expressing was your local general DVM vet or was this the surgeon? What initials does the surgeon have after their name: ACVIM (neurology) or ACVS (ortho)? So what if it takes Lucy several weeks/months to have bladder control returned? There are many, many surgeons who show the owner how to express. In fact using caths are not the norm unless the dog is overweight where you can feel the bladder or that the dogs is just one of the few that is very hard to express. True, it is a new skill to learn. So the owner will go to their local general vet if they need a refresher. Express right there in the clinic and have the vet tech check their work. Even when a dog pees on their own they often leave some urine in the bladder. Peeing or expressing every 4-6 hours keeps the bladder healthy and avoids UTIs. While on prednisone you would expect to express every 2-3 hours because of the extra thirst. Once off of pred expressing can easily go to every 6 hours even a max of every 8 hours. This expressing link will let you see exactly what is involved. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmSo it is up to you to decide if you want to pursue getting a lesson on expressing the bladder, perhaps from your regular general DVM vet based on these considerations: 1. With expressing you would be able to periodically take Lucy outside for the sniff and pee test to see if bladder control is returning. 2. Expressing is not invasive, there would be no potential for scaring internal tissue. 3. Expressing requires no devices and can be done anywhere. 4. UTI's can happen with caths as well as with expressing especially when first learning.
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Post by Molly & Lucy on Apr 4, 2014 11:13:34 GMT -7
She had two surgeons...one was DVM (resident in training) and one was DACVIM-Neurology. I also spoke to her regular vet also DVM.
I think the plan was to see how her mobility improved 1-2 weeks and hopefully catheter would be gone by then. One week out will be next Saturday, so hopefully we'll get a tail wag by then!
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Post by Molly & Lucy on Apr 12, 2014 7:00:32 GMT -7
The catheter came out 4/7 (last Monday). She's walking around pretty good, but still doesn't seem to go potty on her own regularly. I have seen her go on her own, but she's just not going when or as often as I'd expect her to. For instance, didn't go last night before bed and didn't go first thing this morning. I have been able to manually express her bladder (sometimes...doesn't always seem to work). Is it unusual for her to be so slow in getting the urinate reflex back?
She's eating and drinking fine, stools look normal.
She got her sutures out yesterday morning, but had to go back in the afternoon as the incision started opening back up. They put six staples in the lower half of the incision and now there's a spot in the top half that's starting to open up...UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 12, 2014 7:32:24 GMT -7
Molly, dogs do not always follow the classic textbook order of nerve healing. So that may be why. I would just let her sniff and expell as much urine as she can. Follow up with a quick express check to verify that she is pushing out all the urine each time she pees. Is she consuming the normal amount of liquids via the combo of moisture in her food plus what she laps up? You might try soaking each kibble meal in equal amt of water as kibble overnight in the fridge and of course providing water access during the day.
Sorry to hear about the incision not healing enough and re-opening. Usually we hear that sutures are removed at the 14 day point.
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Post by Molly & Lucy on Apr 12, 2014 14:19:13 GMT -7
Yes, her sutures were at the 14 day mark, so not sure why they aren't healing. I've heard prednisone can slow the healing process?? Regarding expressing the bladder, if she shows no signs or inclination of going on her own is it safe for me to express for her? I'm worried she'll get accustomed to it or dependent on it if I do it too frequently. She's definitely drinking plenty of water. Water in-take and appetite have stayed very healthy throughout. I guess that's one good thing!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 12, 2014 17:23:03 GMT -7
Yes, it is true that prednisone could possibly slow healing. You will not hurt Lucy by expressing. It is just that when they start to have some control, they may not like you to express. But a quick express check to see how much is in the bladder is for health reasons to make sure urine is not residing in the bladder. Urine that stays in the bladder over 6-8 hours is more subject to providing a breeding ground for bacteria (UTI's) If a dog can urinate of their own will, believe me they will not waiting around or get lazing wanting someone to express them. Same as you if you could feel fullness in your bladder, you'd go not wait for someone to help you if you had control over your bladder.
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