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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 2, 2014 10:12:07 GMT -7
Hello all. I'm Jana. I'm here because of my baby girl Nugget. She is an 8 year old short hair mini dachshund. She is tiny at 7 lbs. I've never been told she has IVDD but back in 2009 we had a small back problem without any paralysis that was treated with meds and crate rest. I decided way back then that invasive surgery was not something I ever wanted to put her through. So with her symptoms, I'm treating it as IVDD.
This past Monday (3/31/14) we came home to happy dog dragging her legs greeting us. I got her to a vet that evening and did a loading dose of pednisone and watched her very closely that night. She still has deep pain response. I was able to get her in a local vet who is also a certified veterinary medical acupuncturist. We did our first treatment of acupuncture yesterday (4/1/14). She responded well, didn't even seem to notice that needles were in her. She bent a few of the needles. My vet says that is a great sign that she will respond positively to the acupuncture. In addition to the
prednisone 2 times a day (until we see some improvement), we added
methocarbamol 3 times a day,
tramadol 2 times a day or as needed, and a Vetri Disc vitamin supplement that will be daily for the rest of her life.
I will double check the dosages when I get home and update. I've had her on 24/7 crate rest since Monday, no exceptions. This morning she was trembling mildly off and on before we dosed with meds. She had some control of her legs after the acupuncture treatment but I am still assisting her to stand properly. It's more like her feet wont cooperate, kind of waddling on the tops of feet or knuckles when she can get her feet under her. She can wag her tail. She will assume the squat position when she urinates. However, she hasn't pooped since this ordeal began. I mentioned it to the vet during her treatment. She assured me that the acupuncture would help move things along, but nothing yet. She has been drinking water just fine. Nugget hasn't been eating much, so I'm not sure how concerned I should be about not pooping. I was able to entice her to eat some last night by adding a teaspoon or so of bacon grease to her water softened food. I give that to both my dogs once or twice a month as a treat, so her stomach should be used to the grease. I am going to try giving her some pumpkin this evening to see if we can't get things moving. I was reading here about giving her some pepcid to help with any stomach irritation. I will be contacting my vet and getting the OK on this today. Could that be part of the constipation problem?
I feel like I am doing all that I can. Any suggestions? Any advice from someone that has taken the acupuncture route? There is another vet locally that offers the electro-acupuncture. Should I be doing that instead of the standard dry acupuncture?
Any advice on setting up her recovery suite? She a nosy dog and if she can't see what's going on around her or where I am, she will try to move around. I've been giving her a hot water bottle at night to help her settle down. She loves to sleep in the bed with me, so settling her at night has been tough. I wont give in, STRICT cage rest.
We have another acupuncture treatment in a week. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she can make a full recovery.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 2, 2014 12:27:48 GMT -7
Jana welcome to Dodgerslist we are glad you are here. Two important things to address today: 1. stop feeding any oils or grease as they can cause diareah confusing if there is a med issue or a simple food issue. 2. Not eating is a potential red flag sign that should not be ignored. Let us know what your says today. Ask your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmThanks, we look forward to having a complete list of meds with mgs and how often given when you have access to the information.Tramadol can be constipating. Pumpkin is a high fiber fruit which can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.With still having bladder control evidenced by squatting and then releasing urine, Nugget will likely be a good candidate to recover with commitment to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks . Acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. The electro is a stronger stimulation. Best to discuss with your holistic vet which would be best in Nugget's case.
There are many kinds of recovery suites. Often a pet stroller is excellent on those time when you are in the house and want Nugget to stay with you as you move about the house. More details on what to look for in a stroller and caveats when using plus other recovery suites to keep Nugget in the middle of family activity. In the early days of learning our dogs have IVDD, everyone needs a shoulder to lean on while getting things figured out, dealing with emotions, getting up to speed on meds, what disc disease is, etc. Your job in the coming days is to zero in on the details of IVDD to be a leader of the health care team.... to discuss confidently various issues from medications to recognizing if suggestions of activity would be harmful to the healing disc. Have you been on our main website? This is a very good start place "Overview: the essentials" yellow button it will give you the degree of understanding you need right away…. as time permits continue to read all the orange buttons and the blue button "Disc Disease 101 core readings" to complete your education. Here is the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmLet us know that your vet has no objections to getting Pepcid AC on board today and if you are then seeing Nugget doing better about eating. |
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 2, 2014 20:50:32 GMT -7
I did not hear back from the vet about the Pepcid, so I did not dose her with that today. Receptionist told me that the doctor was in surgery today.
Other meds dosages are as follows:
Prednisone 5mg 2 times a day
Methocarbamol 500mg 1/4 tablet 3 times a day
Tramadol 50mg 1/2 tablet every 8 to 12 hours as needed for pain
Vetri-disk supplements 1 daily -capsules not labeled by mg
She did poop, finally. Not as controlled as I would have liked but I will take what I can get. She kind of waddled forward in a squat as she released. She seemed uncomfortable in that position. The BM itself was normal maybe a touch dark for her but not something that concerned me.
She has not eaten anything major today. She a least had some kibble yesterday. I've tried her kibble watered down, with pumpkin, and with wet food mixed in. She is uninterested in her food. She did have some peanut butter as a pill delivery system, maybe a tablespoon worth. She was interested in the peanut butter and took it willingly. She is drinking water just fine. Receptionist at the vet suggested some of their canned stuff. I'm planning on picking it up tomorrow.
She seems to be improving with balance. Slightly less of the knuckle dragging this evening, when we went out to potty. Especially on her left side. Still getting the assist of a sling towel from me but, movement seemed easier for her. She was shaking a tiny bit for maybe 30 mins after we dosed meds and pottied. I gave her the hot water bottle and that stopped in no time flat. Nugget even shifted her self around to get her whole back warm, defiantly gave her some relief.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 2, 2014 21:54:02 GMT -7
Hi Jana, Does Nugget have a favorite food or treat that she would be tempted to eat? She needs to be enticed since not eating and taking Prednisone could be damaging to her stomach.. Not eating and a darker than usual stool is an early warning sign for stomach or GI damage that Prednisone is well known for causing. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. Make sure to ask your Vet about Pepcid AC in the morning and get it on board right away.. My Tyler was sent home from the Vet after his IVDD surgery with Pepcid AC among his meds. His Surgeon said it's important for IVDD dogs to take it to prevent gastric acid from damaging the stomach and GI tract. Preventing it is far better than treating after it happens.. IVDD is more than enough to deal with.. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/stomachProtection.htmwww.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspxTramadol has a short half life.. and is not normally effective given every 12 hours. It is better to give it every 8 hours to cover pain better.. Shaking is a symptom of pain.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmTry to avoid major changes to her normal diet because it would be hard to tell if stomach upset or potential diarrhea was caused by medications or by a food change. It's important to be able to make the distinction.. Maybe some low salt broth added to her kibble would tempt her to eat.. (Make sure there is no onion in the ingredients of the broth..) Glad the acupuncture is helping, it's a wonderful treatment for IVDD.. |
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 3, 2014 8:34:18 GMT -7
We had another BM this morning. Totally normal in color. Still not the control I would like to see but it is still very early in her treatment. I tried kibble in low sodium chicken broth, this morning. She had no interest in it, until I added some treats mixed in. She picked out the treats but lapped up some of the broth in the process. She is a fan of these Merrick Sausages www.petco.com/product/113182/Merrick-Sausage-Dog-Treats.aspx the cowboy cookout flavor. Breaking it up in to pieces she is able to eat it. Not the best nutritionally I'm sure, but what she is willing to eat. I would think at 3 inches they would be enough to fill her belly, because she is so small. I have faith in the acupuncture. Vet said best results are seen in 72 hours post acupuncture treatment. We aren't quite there yet and I have already seen some improvement. The methocarbamol seems to relax her more than the tramadol. I have been dosing the tramadol every 8 hours in efforts to keep her comfortable. When she prescribed it, the vet said to use my best judgment on her pain level and how often to give the tramadol. She LOVES that hot water bottle though. I think it is a comfort to her as much as a pain relief. She has always been super cuddly and that is the best substitute for warm cuddles I can think of. |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Apr 3, 2014 9:52:21 GMT -7
Jana,
Keep an eye on the pain. You know your dog best and can judge when she seems off. If she still seems to be having pain, your vet could add Gabapentin, which works synergistically with the Tramadol and is very helpful in controlling the pain. Please let us know how she is feeling today (by the way Nugget is such a cutie!)
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 3, 2014 11:08:02 GMT -7
Got the OK from the vet for the pepcid ac! I will add this today hopefully it stimulate her appetite.
Thanks for all the support ladies!
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Apr 4, 2014 5:12:46 GMT -7
Glad Nugget is on the Pepcid...you are being a great advocate for her!
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 4, 2014 9:01:30 GMT -7
I forgot to post the dosage for the Pepcid AC! For her size (7 lbs) she gets 2mg 1 or 2 times a day as needed. So 1/4 of a 10mg pill. I gave her 1/2 last night and she started eating about an hour later. I chose to up the dose since we have been on the pednison all week without the pepcid and I felt like her stomach was really hurting her. Stepped it down to the 1/4 this morning. I also picked up the food from the vet. It's Purina EN Gastroenteric. They assured me it won't give her any problems digestive-ly. It apparently is designed to not need a mixing transition like other foods. She seemed to really like it and had eaten some of the kibble in chicken broth while I was at work. Her BM was normal again this morning. She didn't seem to have much pain yesterday. She did squeal when I picked her up for a potty break. I was picking her up as the photo instructed ( www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy/WaterTherp2.jpg ) I'm not quite sure what I did wrong. She shook a little after that. I dosed the tramadol and gave her the hot water bottle after that happened. The shakes stopped about 20 mins later. That was the only shaking/pain I saw yesterday and I caused it, I feel terrible about it. I'm cautiously hopeful! This site is a wealth of information. I don't know what I would be doing without it. |
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 4, 2014 9:21:15 GMT -7
Also getting her to take the tramadol is getting harder and harder. She keeps spitting it out, even when mixed in the peanut butter. The other meds go down no problem. Except for the Vetri-disk supplements which are huge by comparison and hard for her to swallow. I've tried the pill pockets in the past with little success. Any other suggestions for tricking her into taking her meds?
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Post by Sabrina & Lily on Apr 4, 2014 10:46:33 GMT -7
I wrap Lily's Tramadol tightly in 2 pieces of Salami and then squish it all together in my fingers after to make sure it wont unravel - she is so excited about the salami that she practically inhales the Tramadol.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 4, 2014 11:23:27 GMT -7
Jana, I would consistently give the Pepcid AC 2x a day as it is most effective for a 12 hour period. Same with Tramadol keep up the dose every 8 hours so that no pain shows through. If you see any more pain when moving or lifting her, let the vet know asap and discuss adding gabapentin to the mix. Vets have found very good success in full pain control when adding gabapentin to tramadol/methocarbabmol mix. Now is really not the time to be switching back and forth foods. It is the change to the system that ANY change in food could possibly cause upset. As soon is she is off all meds and out of pain, do you own homework to find a more nutritious product. Nugget's body has lots of repair jobs to tackle and good nutrition is needed. With Purina EN Gastroenteric she is being fed predominantly rice (1st ingredient) corn (2nd and 3rd ingredient). www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Product/ENGastro entericDogFood.aspx Be a savvy and educated owner about reading labels so you can buy the best that fits your pocketbook: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/nutritionhealing.htm |
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 7, 2014 9:02:59 GMT -7
My vet had said best results from acupuncture are seen 72 hours post treatment, that was Friday. Nugget began wobbly walking on Friday evening (4/4/14)! No knuckling! Maybe a bit crossed but I couldn't be more happy. Saturday she was able to go unassisted for a few minutes! I didn't want to push our luck by letting her go too long unassisted. I'm in total disbelief at her progress. She is raring to go for a backyard adventure, but I kept it to a small area. I'm sticking to the strict cage rest. Saturday afternoon was beautiful outside. I carried her crate out to our front porch to enjoy the sunshine. She was happy to sun bathe and watch the goings on of all the neighbors. It was a nice break to her restlessness with being in the crate.
She is still fairly hunch backed. We go for anther acupuncture treatment tomorrow. I am anxious to see what our vet is going to say about her progress. Only shaking I noticed this weekend was first thing in the mornings. I think it might have been more of an I NEED to go potty shake than pain, as it stopped once she got outside for a potty break. Her hunch for a BM is still fairly awkward but is improving.
She is eating great now. A mixture of her normal kibble (Pedigree Small Breed), chicken broth, and the canned (Purina EN Gastroenteric). I'm sticking with the Purina EN Gastroenteric as it is what my vet suggested and Nugget has had no stomach trouble with the change in food. Paula, please note it is the canned stuff 1st ingredient Meat by-products, followed by barley, rice, liver, and chicken. Nutritionally it seems better than the kibble. I started mixing in the Vetri-disk supplement with her food, rather than fight her to get her to swallow a big capsule.
I switched to crunchy peanut butter for pill delivery. I take about 1/2 a tablespoon of it and stick it to the roof of her mouth so she isn't spitting out the tramadol anymore. I tried letting her take it off the spoon and she would lick down to a pill and stop eating it.
I couldn't be happier with her progress. Thanks again for all the support, it has kept my stress level down.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471 
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Post by Sabrina on Apr 7, 2014 16:45:48 GMT -7
Hi Jana, I'm Sabrina. So glad to hear that Nugget is doing well and that she's eating! Well done for sticking with 100% strict crate rest! That's what Nugget needs to form the secure scar tissue to protect her healing disc(s). For pills - PB is high in calories, so while it's great that you can get Nugget to take her pills, it's worthwhile to try some other pill-taking strategies - it's so easy for dogs to pack on the pounds while on crate rest. -- hide in soft food, a small piece of banana, or (my dog's personal favorite) a small bit of sardine tinned in water, no salt added. (Tramadol is very bitter, so be careful not to get any of it on the outside of whatever you hide it in.) -- use a 3 treat method: 1st (no pill), 2nd (hiding pill) followed immediately by 3rd (no pill) -- if you have other pets, alternating giving treats to your other pets (no pills!) may make Nugget more eager to quickly eat the treat hiding her pill. Great news about Nugget being able to take wobbly steps! Do limit her to as few steps as possible to "get the job done" at potty times (try to keep it under 6). A sling at potty time will help to keep her stable:  ))Hugs!(( |
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 9, 2014 9:28:46 GMT -7
We had our 2nd round of acupuncture yesterday. She was slightly more stable on her feet afterwards. Next week we will do our first session of electro-acupuncture. The vet cleared us to start stepping down the ▼prednisone. We only did one dose of it yesterday. She was a little more tremble-ly this morning and got a full dose of all meds before I headed to work. I'm going to assess her pain level this evening and dose the prednisone accordingly. If she seems to be hurting at all I will keep her at 2 times a day for another week.
I can not sing the praises of the acupuncture enough. We aren't completely out of the woods yet but Nugget's progress has been incredible.
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Post by Jana&Nugget on Apr 30, 2014 14:21:40 GMT -7
Sorry I haven't updated in a few weeks.
Today is exactly one month since her initial injury. We are now through 4 weekly acupuncture treatments. On 4/15/14 she had her 3rd treatment it was the electro-acupuncture, it gave minimal results and progress. We went off all medicines except the prednisone that same week. We began stepping down he prednisone on 4/22/14, when I tried on the 9th she was still showing minor shivering and pain. Her 4th treatment 4/22/14 the vet did small B12 injections into her acupuncture points, this worked phenomenally. The B12 engages the acupuncture points for about 30 to 45 mins, until the B12 disperses. I would say Nugget is at about 95% back to normal. Turning and shaking (like to dry off) is where she seems to still have some wobbliness. We are now stepping down her acupuncture treatments every other week.
She began standing on the wire of the cage and crying to get out the week of 4/15/14. My vet advised short walks to burn some of her energy, saying she could do more damage standing on the cage than the walks will do. We've worked up to walks around the block (about 20 mins). I haven't noticed any negative effects from walking her. As my vet said, she is my dog and I know her best, just to watch her closely, if the walks give her pain don't take her own them. Moderators - I already know this is not what you would advise, no need to shame me about it. I'm documenting all of this here so that others will see the benefits of acupuncture and what is working for my situation. She is still on cage rest and gets her one short walk a day.
My husband has built ramps in the past couple weeks. We have started training my other dachshund to use them. It's going fairly well but she was super confused at first. Biscuit is more food motivated than Nugget is. Hopefully, Nugget (once off cage rest) will get on board just by seeing Biscuit use the ramps.
Again, I can not express how much the acupuncture has helped. I am lucky to have a vet experienced with treating IVDD with acupuncture.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 30, 2014 16:15:35 GMT -7
Jana, by electing to do walks before the end of the full 8 weeks it takes the disc to heal, means you place more importance on having her burn off energy than to use a calmer or a sedative. You feel there is no need to protect the delicate spinal cord should the early healing and still weak scar tissue on the disc tear with too much movement. So far Nugget has been very lucky and dodged the bullet of tearing her healing disc. Here at Dodgerslist are very strong on taking every measure possible to protect the spinal cord. Once the spinal cord would be damaged to a severe state there will be no chance of nerve healing, Nugget will have been sentenced to be paralyzed for life. The only realistic way to protect our IVDD dogs from vets or any professional who does not know IVDD and suggests well meaning treatments that are in reality harmful is for us to be well read, to know the disease our dog has. Our entire core of readings on IVDD is available for just the time it takes to read. www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmUsing any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best to take the edge off and help a dog relax.. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/ Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com |
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