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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 1, 2014 14:20:03 GMT -7
Midnight is my smooth haired black and tan dachshund. She is 3 1/2 years old and weighs 17.74 pounds. I am not sure how she hurt her back but she wasn't herself on Sunday and on Monday the 24th she would not get out of her crate to go potty. I knew something was wrong because 1 year ago almost to the day, my 12 year old did the same thing and when I took him to the vet they said there was no hope because I had him there earlier in the week and they tested for cancer and the test came back positive. So the vet said even if I put him through the stress of surgery, his cancer was so advanced that he would only have maybe three months and he would be in pain so I made the horrible decision to have him euthanized. But with Midnight, she is young still and does not have cancer so I am determined to get her through this.
I found this website on Monday and it was the biggest blessing! I had her crated anyway but this gave me hope. Unfortunately, my husband has been unemployed since November so there was no way we can afford surgery. I was unable to take her to the vet until Thursday the 29th so I did the best I could. The only NSAID I had was aspirin but thanks to what I learned here I gave her Pepcid to help her stomach. Now she is currently on
Tramadol 25mg 3 times a day
Metacam .54 mb/mL 1 time a day
methocarbamol 125mg 3 times a day
sucralfate 1 g 3 times a day
Pepcid 10mg 3 times a day. Starting tomorrow she will also get
Cephlexin 250mg twice a day for a separate infection.
She had no use of her back legs when I took her in. She did have deep pain sensation and reflex response. She is eating, drinking and urinating and defecating normally. She has shown great improvement since being on the meds. She can wag her tail now and is trying to pull herself up to potty. I take her back this Thursday for recheck.
The problem I am having is that she is balking at taking her meds. At first it was easy. I put it in some cheese and she gobbled it up. but now she is being resistant. I don't know if she is being stubborn or if her stomach hurts. Her poo is the right color. what do you think.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 1, 2014 19:25:06 GMT -7
Mary welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you are here.
Can you give us some further clarification:
-- Can Midnight now move her legs herself in addition to moving up into a standing position?
-- Does she have bladder control. That means she can sniff an old pee spot in the grass then then choose to release urine. If she is leaking in her bedding or on you when lifted that would show a lack of bladder control and the need for you to manually express the bladder. Let us know what you observe.
-- Is pain fully in control dose to dose of the pain meds (tramadol and methocarbamol). No shivering, yelping, tight tense tummy.... she is back to her normal perky self?
The aspirin bottle should be marked "not for pets" There are now NSAID formulated for dogs. While not fully without side effects that are better than aspirin. I'm so glad to hear your vet is proactive in protection of the GI tract with going on Metacam after the aspirin with TWO protectors (sucralfate and Pepcid AC)
Tramadol is a very bitter tasting med. If she has gotten taste with some tramadol dust on your fingers she would be very suspicious. Have you tried the 3-treat med method. Give a high value plain treat, while holding a treat with a med inside in view. The idea is she will be greedy to get the 2nd med treat. Have the third plain treat in view so again she'll be greedy to gulp down the treats.
Most dogs like the sweetness of banana or mashed sweet potatoe. Pill stick nicely inside a small ball. You can wrap the ball with a piece of deli meat to make even more yummy. A marshmallow also makes a good place to hide a pill.
Pilling is also an option
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 2, 2014 6:42:23 GMT -7
She is not yet able to walk but when I lay her on her side to clean her up she can move them. She is able to control her bladder. the only time she messes her cage is when my husband doesn't take her out often enough. (He is clueless) Her pain is controlled and I had no problem getting her to take her meds last night. (again my husband is clueless). I have not given her aspirin since I got her to the vet last week. I am taking her for her recheck tomorrow. I am cautiously optimistic as she has shown a lot of improvement since last week.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 2, 2014 7:15:15 GMT -7
Mary, it really sounds like Midnight will likely be a good candidate to heal under conservative treatment. Yours and hubby's commitment to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks will allow that disc to heal In summary that will mean no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. In fact we often need to think in terms of months for nerve healing. You can see how well Midnight is progressing in reversing her nerve damage:1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement <---, and then ability to move up into a standing position <---, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. If you guys have a smart phone, you might find as I did how helpful it was to set alarms for potty and pilling times. With two people giving meds a chart is very helpful to avoid double dosing or missing a dose. This is a sample chart of how to do that. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/crateRRP/medchart.pdfSo that everyone in the family is clued in on what is an emergency, I recommend downloading this flyer for your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdf |
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 5, 2014 19:11:55 GMT -7
She is getting more and more stubborn about taking her meds. it seems like she just has to see me and she turns her head. I have had to force it down her throat. Also how long do you think it will be until she can start standing on her own? I am scared that she I going to lose the use of her back legs. I take her back to the vet tomorrow.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 5, 2014 19:58:20 GMT -7
Mary, how long does it take nerves to heal, can anyone give you a timetable for when nerves will heal is a good question. The button that addresses this information is located on our "INDEX to Overview: Phases of healing" page.... look for the Nerve Regeneration button. We encourage each member to take on the important job of reading. This helps you to know what to expect, gives background to better be able to participate in discussion at a vet visit. Each of those buttons provides an excellent way to quickly get up to speed on IVDD. After crate rest has been completed and it is safe for more active physical exercise, you will see that muscle tone will return. As soon as Midnight is off of all meds and is showing no pain there are very, very light, least aggressive range of motion and massage you could then do for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk once off all pain meds and no more signs of pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmIt is important for Midnight to get her pills. If it takes pilling, there is nothing wrong with that. Pilling is fast.
Let us know what the vet says tomorrow, if there are any changes in the med list. |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 5, 2014 20:09:55 GMT -7
Hi Mary!
Been through the stubborn about taking meds thing with my Tyler. He got a taste of the Tramadol when Neil got too forceful about giving him his meds and he was suspicious watching my every move in the kitchen thinking I was hiding pills in foods etc.. Had a hard time with Tyler until I started using lunchmeat.
I would take out 3 pieces of lunch meat and hide the tramadol in one piece.. I gave him the first piece without meds, and he ate it, I then gave him the Tramadol wrapped in lunch meat and he gobbled it right down without even realizing it and then I followed up with another piece without meds.. Worked every time..
Once nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience.
There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag!
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk.
3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test.
Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine.
4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 6, 2014 3:30:06 GMT -7
Hi Mary, There is a product called "Pill Pockets" that work great! Here is a link to info about them in case you are still having trouble administering the meds: www.greenies.com/dogs/pill-pockets.aspxYou can also find them at most pet stores- and you can break them apart to the desired size for each pill. Hope Midnight is improving and out of pain. |
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 6, 2014 5:55:01 GMT -7
Thanks to everyone for the information and support. It is ironic, I used to volunteer at a wildlife rescue and had no qualms about pilling possums, raccoons squirrels and all sorts of wildlife but when it comes to my baby, it just kills me. I tried the lunchmeat and she ate the first one, sniffed the one with the meds and promptly turned her head away. And I understand why, I have had to take tramadol for my own bad back and it is truly nasty if it melts in your mouth.  I am getting ready to take her to the vet and I will post back the outcome. |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 6, 2014 20:27:33 GMT -7
Hi Mary,
Thinking of you and Midnight.. Hoping the Vet visit went ok...
Sending comforting thoughts..
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 9, 2014 7:20:26 GMT -7
Good news! I had Midi to the vet last night and she (the vet) said that she saw marked improvement in midi's deep pain response. She still isn't standing but that could be because she REFUSES the pain meds and it hurts. I told the doctor about this and she is having a compounding pharmacy create a liquid of tramadol so I can just shoot it into her mouth. This morning I had to grind up her meds and shoot them into her mouth as she totally does not trust me with treats anymore. but I will do whatever it takes to get her better. I figure though if she can get that mad at me she must be feeling better. |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Apr 9, 2014 7:32:46 GMT -7
Good news about the tramadol. Make sure they don't use xylitol when they compound the medication. Here's a quick note about xylitol:
CAUTION: The commercially available human liquid product contains xylitol which can be toxic to dogs. It is possible to have a special formulation made at a pharmacy that does drug compounding so that it does not contain xylitol.
Just double check when you pick up the meds. Mimi takes liquid gabapentin for neuropathy and we have it compounded at a pharmacy that does stuff for dogs all the time (they are well known by every vet in the area). But, I always ask every time I pick up the meds.
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 9, 2014 13:14:29 GMT -7
Good to know. The vet uses this particular pharmacy for all the compounds but I will make sure that it is safe.
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 27, 2014 7:22:57 GMT -7
HI all. well it has been a month on crate rest. she is doing well but there is no sign that she wants to walk. I am taking her back to the vet this week as she is out of all her meds. i know it is a strict 8 weeks crate but I am afraid her legs are getting cramped up being in basically one position all the time. she has also developed a yeast infection on her legs. The vet wanted to wait to deal with that until she was more healed. I have unscented baby wipes that I clean her with which has helped her belly but she does not like me messing with her legs, Any guidance will be appreciated. Thanks so much for being here. I don't know what I would have done if I had not found this.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471 
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Post by Sabrina on Apr 27, 2014 11:06:12 GMT -7
Hi Mary! So sorry to hear of Midnight's yeast infection. I'm glad your vet knows - I haven't dealt with his before, so hopefully others will be able to advise you! Does Midnight still have bladder control (she can sniff an old pee spot and then release urine)? Can she wag her tail at some happy talk? Unscented baby wipes are good for cleaning - also, some folks use cooled green tea on a soft cloth as a wipe. The cooled green tea helps prevent urine scald - I don't know if it has any impact on a yeast infection. Will Midnight tolerate you drying her well with a clean, dry cloth after you wipe her? When you say that Midnight doesn't like you touching her legs, she showing any signs of pain such as: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment - once off of all meds and there is no more pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmCould you give us a list of Midnight's current meds (doses and frequencies)? ))Hugs!(( You can do this and we are here to support you! |
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Apr 27, 2014 14:57:33 GMT -7
Right now she is out of all her meds. I can't take her back to the vet until Tuesday when I get paid  But she doesn't seem to be experiencing pain. I have been monitoring her reactions when I move her and although she doesn't like to be picked up, she was like that before this happened. She lets me clean her and dry her off but I think the problem with the legs is more due to them being raw from the yeast infection. she l icks them a lot. I put salve on her that I cleared with the vet and pharmacist so that if she does lick it it won't hurt her. She does have bladder and bowel control and can wag her tail. I just don't know if I am expecting too much from her. My best friend got me some Zoom glucosamine and chondroitin chews that were miraculous for her Burmese mountain dog who was almost completely lame. she can now run and go up and down the steps like a puppy. so I started Midi on those tonight and hope the are as successful for Midi. I will keep you posted |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 27, 2014 17:28:56 GMT -7
Mary, when $$ are tight it is important to spend money where it will do the best good. Do read up on glucosamine/chondroitin for IVDD www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htmWhat is the name of the ointment? Is the skin showing any signs of healing or is it still raw? Can you wrap a bandage not too tightly so circulation is not cut off, but to prevent the licking and disrupting the healing of the skin? Pain is the determing factor as to how long to stay on meds. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on metacam, pain meds and Pepcid AC needed.So if she is off all meds and there is no pain, there is no reason to be on any of her IVDD meds.
What is the purpose of the vet visit on Tuesday? If you are not certain it may proove worthwhile to find out if a vet visit and that cost is necessary. Continuing with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for the rest of the 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing to do to allow the disc itself to heal with the limited movement of the recovery suite. Nerves may or may not heal during those 8 weeks as nerves are the slowest part of the body to heal. Think in terms of months for nerve healing rather than days/weeks.
If a vet visit is a must, be sure to pad out extra space in the crate with a rolled up blanket or towel, so Midnight will not shift as you brake or take a corner. |
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Post by Mary & Midnight on May 20, 2014 10:53:51 GMT -7
Saturday will be the 2 months of crate rest. she has been such a good girl but I can tell she really wants to start moving again. I will be soooooo happy to see her walking and running again (but no jumping or stair climbing) Now comes physical therapy to strengthen her little legs up. I am so grateful for everyone here! I look at her now and just can't imagine that some people told me I should put her down. I thank God for this website so my little girl will have a long and happy life.
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Post by Pauliana on May 20, 2014 20:04:11 GMT -7
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Post by Mary & Midnight on Jul 16, 2014 16:09:11 GMT -7
Well here it is July 16 and Midnight is doing GREAT!!! She is walking and running and is like her old self again (except I think she got a little spoiled with the constant attention) I have been giving her Zoom Glucosamine and chondroitin chews now for 4 months and I really think they have helped with her recovery. It was funny, at 2 months 1 week she started wanting to try and stand by herself when she pottied. then gradually she started walking a little bit then each week she progressed further and further. we continued to carry her outside and in but one day I was distracted and the next thing she was up on the deck all by herself! I still watch her very closely, I don't think I will ever be completely comfortable with her roaming by herself but it is SOOOOOO wonderful seeing her interact with her siblings and the neighbor dogs again. I cannot tell you haw grateful I am that I found Dodger's List! I followed the advice and had faith and now my baby girl is walking again. Thank You!!! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 16, 2014 19:39:03 GMT -7
Belated congratulations! So pleased to hear your commitment to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks gave Midnight the opportunity to heal her disc. LOVE hearing she has gone on to heal her nerves and is back running and having fun!
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Jul 17, 2014 7:28:22 GMT -7
Congratulations!!! You did an amazing job with Midnight and I am thrilled to hear that she is doing so well Big high fives all around! |
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I am getting ready to take her to the vet and I will post back the outcome.
But she doesn't seem to be experiencing pain. I have been monitoring her reactions when I move her and although she doesn't like to be picked up, she was like that before this happened. She lets me clean her and dry her off but I think the problem with the legs is more due to them being raw from the yeast infection. she licks them a lot. I put salve on her that I cleared with the vet and pharmacist so that if she does lick it it won't hurt her. She does have bladder and bowel control and can wag her tail. I just don't know if I am expecting too much from her. My best friend got me some Zoom glucosamine and chondroitin chews that were miraculous for her Burmese mountain dog who was almost completely lame. she can now run and go up and down the steps like a puppy. so I started Midi on those tonight and hope the are as successful for Midi. I will keep you posted
