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Post by Sigrid & Gretta on Mar 29, 2014 23:12:39 GMT -7
Hello, my name is Sigrid. My dog is Oliver, an 8 year old long haired Dachshund that weights about 13 pounds.
I found Dodgerslist back in 2012 when Oliver had his first episode and was a down dog, paralyzed on his left back leg. I tried crate rest and could not get him out of pain, so opted for surgery in Oct 2012. Oliver recovered well, just a little crooked in his walk with a bit of a skip in his step.
A few months later (I don't remember when), he yelped in pain when I was drying him off after swimming. I took him back to the surgeon, and he had pain in a different disk than before. I opted for 8 weeks of crate rest. Oliver was not in constant pain ever during this 2nd episode--he still wanted to run around thinking he was fine. After 8 weeks of crate rest he did not have any sign of pain.
Off and on, Oliver will act ouchy in his back--but nothing like when he blew a disk in 2012. He will just yelp, I'll check him over and he will seem fine, then he will run off playing like normal.
Around Feb 1st 2014, he yelped, and when I examined him--he appeared definitely ouchy in his back again. I crated him right away and took him back to the surgeon who could not confirm exactly where he was sore, but recommended crate rest.
I just took Oliver off crate rest after another 8 weeks, and I'm completely stressed out and worried about him. The poor little guy has spent 6 months of the last 1 1/2 years in a crate. Thankfully he is crate trained.
He is now very protective of his back and stiffens up defensively every time I do a back examination. He also seems to "tweak" his back sometimes and yelp, but then be fine. I can tell he is very worried about feeling pain in his back, but he still loves to run around the yard and play with his dachshund sister.
Will he now always be sensitive and randomly ouchy in his back? How do I know when it is just a tweak of pain (like I can get in my bad joints) that passes, or another episode where I need to crate him?
I don't want to be so overprotective he is spending half of his life in a crate.
Any advice from others who have experienced this would be appreciated.
Thank you--from a most worried Mommy...
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 30, 2014 5:42:55 GMT -7
Hi Sigrid, So sorry Oliver has had so many disc episodes. You have done the exact right thing in crating him each time. Did your doctors put him on any type of anti-inflammatory during crate rest? If there is swelling from an IVDD episode, and that swelling never went down, it could be why Oliver is still in pain. Can you give us some details on the last episode? ► What was the date you saw the vet for the last episode and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for this current disc episode? ► Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? ► How much does your dog weigh? List the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? What was the start dose if a steroid, date of taper? Is he currently on any medication? ► Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? ► Can your dog specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? ► Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? Please let us know these things. Also, how back friendly is your home? Here is a great link to ensuring your home is as gentle as possible for Oliver's back. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmIs it possible that Oliver has some arthritis that could be causing pain? Has the vet ever referenced this? Please let us know some more detail so we can support you further. You have done such an amazing job with Oliver. Don't doubt yourself for the crate rest. |
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Post by Sigrid & Gretta on Mar 30, 2014 11:35:39 GMT -7
So, I keep on hand Prednisone, Methylcarbomol, and Tramadol. As soon as he yelped in pain, and then I noticed his "skip" in his step seemed more pronounced I crated him right away. He was never in constant pain at all, nor did he yelp everytime when picked up. Just that one time, and then when I papated his back I could tell he was uncomfortable.
I did 6 days of pred with a taper down, along with twice a day methylcarbomol and tramadol. He really wasn't in pain, so I stopped all of that after a week.
That was around Feb 1st. I crated him for about a month before seeing the vet, as I know crate rest is the recommended treatement due to Dodgerslist and his previous two episodes. I wasn't sure if he was in pain due to his back, or due to arthritis, so that is when I had the vet check him and she confirmed it was his back and to continue the crate rest for 4 more weeks. She did say he has some arthritis in his back hips, but I've had him on supplements for that for years.
He was always walking fine, wagging his tail, never lost bladder or bowel control. I could just see his back end was more stiff and not moving quite like normal. He was never shivering or trembling, only yelped when picked up just a couple times at the very beginning.
I have made the house very back friendly. All stairs are blocked, and he has ramps in and out of his doggie door. He is a very "jumpy" dog and jumps naturally when excited--which is frequently. I'm constantly working on training him to settle down and stop jumping. It is part of his personality and how he expresses himself when excited (feeding times, when I come home from work, etc.). This behavior is always discouraged. He was on strict crate rest and carried out to potty.
He has always been eating and drinking just fine as well.
Even when I took him to the vet, he was walking around great, and hardly showed signs of back pain when she examined him. He is more sensitive at home when I examine his back. He tenses up defensively out of fear from the pain he had with his very first episode that he had surgery for.
I'm just trying to figure out the difference between a random yelp/tweak due to the old injury and surgery site, and another episode. I don't want him to live half of his life in a crate.
Thanks for any thoughts...
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 30, 2014 17:34:58 GMT -7
Sigrid, it is hard to wrap your mind around the disease Oliver was born with. It is a disease, a progressive disease. Some dogs have only one episode while others have multiples during their life time. It is a challenge with mild symptoms what is the cause is -- this is where a vet with lots of practice in exams plays an important role in diagnosing.
We all do the same as you. You did great in quickly crating!! We, too, are aware of the first hint of pain and crate, get to the vet for a diagnosis and meds if confirmed to be a disc episode. All this fast action is in an attempt to keep the symptoms mild preventing severe damage to the spinal cord. It is a good idea to avoid giving meds before a vet has seen the dog in his natural state. I'm not clear if you gave pred, tramadol and methocarbamol one month before seeing the vet. Tramadol might be ok the evening before if there is pain. It is short acting and would be out of the system for an early morning vet exam. Pred is a med that is prudent to first give a blood test to determine the health of organs. Pepcid AC (famotidine) is the stomach protector to have on board when using Pred.
As for jumping, since what you are doing is not working, it may mean you need to first change your behavior to elicit a different behavior from Oliver. The video below gives ideas on curtailing jumping or perhaps hiring a dog behavior trainer might be considered.
Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc.
Are you slowly reintroducing physical activity so Oliver doesn't overdo things? Here's a sample schedule from our "All Things IVDD" page. Top article in column on the right.http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm#afterrest
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Post by Sigrid & Gretta on Mar 30, 2014 21:36:44 GMT -7
Thanks for the information. I should have clarified that my Surgeon has told me to give the Pred, tramadol, and methylcarbomol at the first sign of an episode. She has also told me to crate rest him, and as long as he is walking fine surgery is not necessary. She lets met check in with her over the phone, although I have opted to have her check him in person both relapses.
His last 2 episodes resulted in a $100 vet visit just to be told to crate rest him, as both times he was walking fine. His jumping is more of a hopping with his back legs staying on the ground. He knows not to do it, he just can't contain his excitement.
His tenderness seems to be lower on his sides--not up on his spine. I think he has sore muscles and is just protective of his back. He sees his regular vet (not the surgeon) in a month for his annual check-up, so I'll get a 2nd opinion from them.
I just wanted to know if others notice their dachshunds acting cautious about their back, or randomly yelping, then acting totally fine. His random yelping is less than once a month--just to clarify...
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 31, 2014 4:47:06 GMT -7
Here's a link to the page where Dr. Isaacs discusses random pain: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/Randompain.htmI know that my Jeremy has become anxious about being picked up since that's the first sign of pain that we've had both times he went down. He gets a very funny look on his face when I reach down for him like oh, no, is it going to hurt and at first it really frightened me because I thought he was in pain. He has gotten very protective about his back. And he's gotten a bit aggressive with other dogs, too, and growls when they first run up to them. I know it frightens him. I hope the link to Dr. Isaacs' discussion about random pain offers you some insight into what's going on with Oliver. |
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Post by Sigrid & Gretta on Mar 31, 2014 20:57:47 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie, that article was very helpful. Oliver does the same as Jeremy--he gets a very funny look on his face--it is a very worried look when I am examining his back, or rubbing his back.
Oliver is also protective of his back with other dogs--other than his "sister", who he trusts completely when they play. He has learned to play in a much calmer fashion.
He loves to swim, and my pool is warm enough for him to swim a little now, and I'm hoping to get an in-ground pool this summer. I know that will help him strengthen his back as well.
I'll just keep a close eye on him. With three episodes I find myself worrying a lot more about him hurting himself again.
Thanks again!
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