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Post by susief on Mar 27, 2013 16:35:50 GMT -7
I hope this doesn't show up twice because I lost my last attempt  Jasmine is a 6 1/2 year old short haired mini doxie and weighed about 17.9 at the time of her injury. I first noticed her holding her neck kind of stiff and it was twitchy. It was a Sunday and we took her to an emergency vet who didn't really see much going on and suggested blood work. We decided to wait until the next day and let our vet do it. The blood work came back good and after his exam he didn't see any neurological problems other than her twitchy neck. She was started on 1/4 of a 75 mg Rimadyl tablet every 12 hours, 125 mg Methocarbamol every 8 hours, and 25 mg of Tramadol every 12 hours. At this time we started carrying her outside to potty and stopped all stair climbing and furniture hopping. After about two weeks there were a few days improvement but she started crouching more with her stiff neck. So now she had xrays and it was discovered she has a calcified disc at C3-4 and slight narrowing at 4-5. I think some more time went by and we spoke to an orthopedic surgeon at KSU. He said he wouldn't consider surgery until she had strict 24/7 crate rest for 8 weeks. She has been in her crate for 15 days now. We had to take her out of the wire crate because she was propping her paws on the sides and stretching which then hurt her neck. She would still wake up in the morning in a crouch, but the last 3 days have been much better. She was a little stiff this morning but it went away quickly and she's been fine all day. She eats and drinks well, and I can tell she must be feeling better because she is whining to come out  I am so glad to have discovered Dodgerslist because I really didn't feel much hope and just figured she would need that very expensive surgery. But now I feel she may have that chance to get better. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I know my vet is doing his best but I having a feeling this is not something he is really familiar with |
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 27, 2013 18:56:06 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Susie! I am sorry to hear Jasmine is having a cervical disk problem but glad to hear she is somewhat better. Since she isn't in the crate now, did you put her in an ex pen or what we call a recovery suite? If not what are you using to make sure she is being kept still so as to not damage her cervical discs any further? Here is some information on Cervical neck IVDD.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmHow to lift and carry Jasmine.. ex-pen recovery suite tip Is she currently on the same meds you mentioned in your post? How is her pain as of now? Also if she is still taking a NSAID such as Rimadyl, she should also be taking Pepcid AC to protect her tummy.. She does not need an Ulcer on top of what she is going through. Be sure to bring this up with her Vet.. Is she trembling,or yelping when touched or does she have a tight tummy? Those are all signs of pain.. Her meds can be adjusted if needed. I think it would be advisable for her to see a board certified Neuro Vet, perhaps at KSU for an evaluation. Even if you don't opt for surgery, a Neuro Vet would still treat her with medication for conservative care. I will be back with a link to find a Neuro Vet in your area.. With IVDD it is far better to have a vet that is totally experienced in this disease. Also the more you know, the better it is for Jasmine..Here is the link to Disc Disease 101..Lots of info on Dodgerslist website.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmBest wishes to you and Jasmine.. We are here for you! Pauliana |
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 27, 2013 19:01:26 GMT -7
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Post by susief on Mar 28, 2013 14:51:45 GMT -7
Thank you Pauliana! I should have mentioned we changed her to a canvas crate (it has mesh windows on all 4 sides). She has figured out she can stretch here too, but not like she was doing in the wire crate She has no pain symptons. She did have a short episode today after deciding she needed to shake her head. She goes into a "crouch" position for a little while and then she is fine. She is still on the same meds. I plan to call her vet tomorrow to give them an update and will be sure to ask about the Pepcid. I also got my DVD from Dodgerslist today and plan on viewing it later! Thank you for the links |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 28, 2013 19:33:15 GMT -7
Susie, her pain is not YET fully under control. Tramadol is not likely to fully control pain unless given every 8 hours as it's half life is 1.7 hours. So this is something to discuss with the vet 1st thing in the morning. Pain will slow the healing process so that is number one to address. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlWe are very happy to hear the Ortho at KSU confirming to you the need for 8 weeks of crate rest to let the disc heal.... that is going to be the single most important part of the care outside of getting pain in control. Are you doing crate rest in this manner: 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. Have you incorporated all the extra things to do for a neck disc mentioned here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm ? As Pauline mentioned there is nothing better than an informed owner to be in a position to work along side your vet in making decisions on everything from meds to treatments..... so please do give yourself the overall picture on this disease and then proceed to the Disc Disease 101 readings. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmGive Jasmine a big kiss and tell her recovery is going to go well, because mom is reading and learning how to best protect her so she can heal and get back to family activities! |
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Post by susief on Mar 29, 2013 16:09:06 GMT -7
Thank you Paula! I had a feeling the pain med was not enough. It seems like she does really well during the day, but when we take her out to go potty in the morning she is sometimes hurting. I called my vet this morning and talked with one of the techs to give her an update on Jasmine. I asked her to ask him about Pepcid and wanted to remind him that the surgeon at WSU had also mentioned another pain pill that starts with a "G" (I can't remember offhand, but know it's been mentioned on your boards). When he called me back he gave me the go ahead on the Pepcid and said he ordered the other pain med and it would be in on Monday and we will give it a try. She is getting strict crate rest...this is day 17. I have read my Disc Disease 101 too I think I will share it will my vet's office because they haven't heard of Dodgerslist and I think it would be beneficial to them too. Jasmine said thank you for the kiss, and I want to say thank you for the help. If not for this board and forum I wouldn't have a clue about what to discuss with my vet! Looking forward to Monday to see if a little more progress can be made with that pain pill. |
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Post by natureluva on Mar 29, 2013 16:22:21 GMT -7
Hi Susie, just chiming in here. The medication your vet is going to prescribe likely is gabapentin. It is a nerve pain medication and works well on breakthrough pain. Please let us know how it works! Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by susief on Apr 6, 2013 17:52:05 GMT -7
Jasmine was switched to the Gabapentin on Monday. I'm happy to say that she has not had any Rimadyl for three days now! She is on day 25 of crate rest, so she is almost half way there. She would be really stiff in the morning for about 30 minutes, but the past few days have been very good. If she would stop shaking her head as part of her daily stretch she would probably feel even better She has an appointment to see her vet on the 14th and I will provide another update after he sees her. Hopefully, everything will be good until then. Thank you for all your help! |
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Post by natureluva on Apr 7, 2013 11:28:05 GMT -7
Susie, I'm so glad to hear that Jasmine's pain is under control with the gabapentin. You're doing a great job with the strict crate rest. Hopefully her disc will fully heal. We look forward to hearing your next update. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by susief on Apr 16, 2013 19:04:55 GMT -7
Today was Jasmine's 35th day in her crate. She has gone over 12 days without taking any Rimadyl! She went to her vet yesterday and he wants to check on her in another week. If she is still doing good, he's going to try taking her off the Methocarbamol. She seems to still be doing good but I panic a little whenever she shakes her head. I'll provide another update soon...and thank you for all the help you've provided!
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Post by Sherry Layman on Apr 17, 2013 11:46:42 GMT -7
Susie, I haven't been able to be around for awhile so I'm just seeing your posts. I noticed you were at KSU. Just wanted to chime in and tell you I had a dog that had surgery there several years ago, they were fabulous!!! His was in his lumbar area but I've also had another dog with a cervical disc episode that didn't require surgery. I know how awfully painful that can be but we fortunately got through it without another trip to K-State! I am so blessed that my vet is a great expert in disc disease. I'm sorry yours is not as well versed but you have an opportunity to help educate him and perhaps save someone else some inconvenience down the road because they'll have a better educated vet! Hang in there, be patient and keep us posted!
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Post by susief on Apr 17, 2013 18:38:19 GMT -7
Thank you Sherry! I was fortunate enough that I haven't had to go to KSU, I just spoke with one of the orthopedic surgeons who insisted on the 8 weeks crate rest. I am so glad to hear that your dog with the cervical disc episode didn't need to have surgery! I kind of walk on egg shells everyday because I'm so afraid she's going to have another episode. But, she is doing so well right now I'm going to think positive and I my next big question is -- at the end of the 8 weeks how do we ease her back into real life?? I know she is going to always be helped up and down the stairs and there will be no more jumping on the couch. I may even keep the crate handy for those days when we may be gone several hours so I don't have to worry about what she's up to. So I'd be really happy if anyone could give me some guidance. |
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 17, 2013 19:20:26 GMT -7
Susie, Jasmine is doing so well. You've done a good job of taking care of her and it is now paying off. We have a good article on reintroducing them to activity. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmIt is a good idea when you're going to be gone awhile, to keep that crate handy. My dogs were always crated when I worked or was gone. |
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Post by susief on Apr 18, 2013 14:11:42 GMT -7
Thank you Linda! Exactly what I was looking for |
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Post by Sherry Layman on Apr 18, 2013 21:07:09 GMT -7
That article is your perfect guide to life after crate rest. And I second Linda's advice on crating when you are not home. I have crated my right from the first day they were brought home so it was easier but honestly they LOVE their crates. It's not at all uncommon for me to find one of them resting in their crate even when I'm home if I leave the doors open. When I am leaving I give each a treat and when they hear the box rattle they race for their crates and wait for me. Obviously it's not something they dread.
I have two dogs currently and I have separate wire crates for each but they are butted up together with a sheet covering so it feels sort of cave like and gives them the idea they are together but they are separated for safety. Even dogs who live together for years can suddenly fight if one were to become injured or isn't feeling well. I have a memory foam mattress in each crate which I removed from the zippered cover it came with and wrapped in a plastic trash bag and repaced in it's cover so if there's an accident or someone vomits I only have to wash the cover. I also have a thin pad that has a "bumper" type ring so they can't get a foot/leg between the wires. Then of course a couple blankets for burrowing and a water bowl that attaches to the side. It's a rough life.
I hope you don't have to make that trip to K-State but if you do know that you are in good hands. My niece is actually a student there though not in vet medicine but I am partial to KSU!
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knr
New Member
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Post by knr on Apr 19, 2013 21:43:17 GMT -7
Glad to hear jasmine is doing ok. It sounds almost identical to what amilea had. However we opted for surgery, as her disc was ruptured. The doctor said its the equivilant to having a rock in your shoe, the surgery removing the rock, no surgery that rock will always be a problem. I'm so glad we did it, amilea is almost instantly better and will not suffer another disc episode most likely. Hers was c2-c3.
It sounds like jasmines spinal cord is slightly compressed from the swelling in her neck region? Did the neurological doctor say why surgery wasn't an option yet?
We were going to do the crate thing for 8 weeks too but amilea wasn't getting better hence the surgery, best choice we could have made. Stressful as anything I've done but well worth it
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Post by susief on Apr 21, 2013 13:36:20 GMT -7
knr - Glad to hear your Amilea is doing good! The orthopedic surgeon said that this is so common to dachshunds and since Jasmine didn't have a rupture, he wanted her to go a full 8 weeks of crate rest. Today is day 40 and she is doing really good! I worry about whether it will happen again after the rest, but if it does I'm sure that will mean surgery. Sherry - I think Jasmine will be spending time in her crate whenever we are gone because in the past she would always jump up on the couch and spend her time there. She doesn't especially like it, but every day seems to get easier Tomorrow I talk to the vet about getting her off the muscle relaxer! |
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Post by susief on Apr 22, 2013 18:24:53 GMT -7
Sorry about that last double post, I don't know how to make one of them go away Jasmine's vet said we are going to try giving her only ▼ 2 muscle relaxers a day (instead of 3) for 4 days. Then cut back to 1 a day for 4 days. Then try zero She is still taking 3 pain pills a day. She is feeling so happy, it's hard to keep her from running when we go out for potty! |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 22, 2013 18:44:23 GMT -7
Susie. I am so glad that Jasmine is feeling so much better!  Hope the taper off the muscle relaxers goes well! Keep us posted! |
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Post by susief on May 6, 2013 18:44:27 GMT -7
Jasmine is on day 55! She is totally off the muscle relaxers and is slowly being taken off her pain pills. Her vet still wants her to have restricted exercise until he sees her on the 16th. But we are letting her move around more and she is doing very good! My hubby made some great couch blockers using pvc pipe and I'm fixing up her crate for sleeping. She has decided she likes being in her crates (she has a wire one and a canvas crate). I'm so excited, but so afraid of it happening again. I will try and post her picture after her vet visit |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2013 12:38:40 GMT -7
Susie, the normal way to check on inflammation is to go off meds--- off the Rimadyl and all the pain meds too (methocarbamol, tramadol, gabapentin). Off all meds is a test to give a very clear picture if swelling in the spinal cord has been resolved or not yet.
Right now still being on Tramadol and gabapentin (?) pain would be masked, so how would you know if all the swelling is actually gone? IF there would be pain, the rimadyl would be needed to still keep on working on inflammation. If going off all meds and there is no pain, that would tell all the swelling/inflammation is gone and no need of any meds at all to be given.
Until off of all meds it would be wise to continue with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 and not let her move around more because you don't have a clear picture of her status until she is off all meds.
Nice job on making the couch blockers, would love to see what your hubby has made with a photo if you can!
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Post by susief on May 7, 2013 18:54:28 GMT -7
Paula, I guess I should have mentioned the only pill she is taking right now is the Gabapentin twice a day. She's done with the Rimadyl and the Methocarbamol. She stopped taking the Tramadol when she switched to Gabapentin. I will take a picture of his couch blockers...just not sure where to post them Thanks for your help! |
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Post by susief on May 19, 2013 18:26:52 GMT -7
Jasmine has finished her eight weeks of strict crate rest (with 2 weeks of "rest" prior to that). She is down to one pain pill a day with good results During the first few weeks I was really afraid that maybe she was going to need surgery, but as every day went by she started getting better. It's so nice to see her happy and running around. There will be no more furniture jumping or stair climbing. I should get really strong too carrying her up and down the stairs to go potty. I will probably always have that fear in the back of my mind that it may happen again, but for now I plan on enjoying her freedom! My husband made some really nice couch blockers and a stair blocker out of PVC pipe and I would share a picture if I knew where to post it. Thanks so much for all the guidance! |
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Post by Pauliana on May 19, 2013 19:17:15 GMT -7
Hi Susie!
Congratulations on Jasmine's crate rest graduation! I am so happy for her and for you! I know that fear of it happening again, I have that with my Tyler too.. but all we can do is take every precaution and it sounds like you are on the right track!
We would love to see the furniture and stair blockers your husband made! The gallery dodgergallery.ourdogs.net/
1) Look for the tiny "login" link at the top right
2) Username: dachsie Password: dodger08
3) Choose an album, look to top right for "Admin options" button Pull down to "Add Photo"
Have fun!!
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Jasmine is a 6 1/2 year old short haired mini doxie and weighed about 17.9 at the time of her injury. I first noticed her holding her neck kind of stiff and it was twitchy. It was a Sunday and we took her to an emergency vet who didn't really see much going on and suggested blood work. We decided to wait until the next day and let our vet do it. The blood work came back good and after his exam he didn't see any neurological problems other than her twitchy neck. She was started on 1/4 of a 75 mg Rimadyl tablet every 12 hours, 125 mg Methocarbamol every 8 hours, and 25 mg of Tramadol every 12 hours. At this time we started carrying her outside to potty and stopped all stair climbing and furniture hopping. After about two weeks there were a few days improvement but she started crouching more with her stiff neck. So now she had xrays and it was discovered she has a calcified disc at C3-4 and slight narrowing at 4-5. I think some more time went by and we spoke to an orthopedic surgeon at KSU. He said he wouldn't consider surgery until she had strict 24/7 crate rest for 8 weeks. She has been in her crate for 15 days now. We had to take her out of the wire crate because she was propping her paws on the sides and stretching which then hurt her neck. She would still wake up in the morning in a crouch, but the last 3 days have been much better. She was a little stiff this morning but it went away quickly and she's been fine all day. She eats and drinks well, and I can tell she must be feeling better because she is whining to come out 
I am so glad to have discovered Dodgerslist because I really didn't feel much hope and just figured she would need that very expensive surgery. But now I feel she may have that chance to get better. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I know my vet is doing his best but I having a feeling this is not something he is really familiar with 
Hope the taper off the muscle relaxers goes well! Keep us posted! 
