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Post by Stacy & Wally on Mar 24, 2014 13:26:45 GMT -7
Hi there, I'm currently sitting on my floor beside my little buddy who's locked up in his crate, trying not to cry (me, not him).
Wally is a mini dachshund, he's 5 and a half yrs old and weighs about 14.5 pounds (6.6 kilos).
He tried to jump up on the couch Sunday night but cowered like something was wrong. Then he sat and wouldn't walk. Took him to the emergency vet who said it might be pulled muscles along his spine (he reacted to her when she was pressing it) but that it also might be IVDD. She gave him Metacam to take daily and said keep him caged for 10-14 days.
This morning I get up and ask him if he wants to go pee and he just looks at me and wags his tail. When you normally ask him if he wants to pee, he goes berserk, running in circles. I open his crate to put his collar on, he walked out a couple steps and seemed fine, put his collar on him and carried him outside. Put him down and he started to pee, then he started crying and trying to back up, all while he was still peeing. I carried him back in, he was shaking so hard, grabbed my purse and headed back to the hospital.
Vet we saw this morning says she's sure it's IVDD, she felt for his spine pain and he reacted again (not a big reaction, just looked at her when she touched the spot) and she said he had ataxia, mild. He was sent back home for strict crate rest, only out for bathroom breaks and given
14.5 pounds (6.6 kilos)
Tramadol 25mg every 8 hrs
Gabapentin 50mg every 8 hrs
Metacam (the 5km mark on the syringe plus 3 drops from the bottle) once daily.
He's having a nap right now but it's time for Metacam and I want to take him out for a pee. This morning when we came home from the animal hospital he had a normal bowel movement and a good pee, everything seemed normal. He wasn't shaking like he was first thing this morning when he had pain while peeing.
the vet had him walking around a little and showed me the ataxia - I can see how it looks a little 'off' on his back end (hard to describe). He wags his tail when I talk to him, and he's clawed his cage a few time because he's not happy to be in there. He hasn't drank anything in a while but he did eat food earlier. He keeps changing his position in there, trying to get comfortable or bored...
I guess I'm looking for someone to talk to? I'm so scared for him. It's just me & him, he's my baby, my little buddy and I'm so worried. I'm glad this board is here, for people to talk. I was very happy to find it.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 24, 2014 14:20:48 GMT -7
Stacy, welcome to Dodgerlist, we are glad you found us. Since you gave weight in Kilos, which country are you from. That helps us as meds can go by different names in different countries. Glad to hear you are not seeing any signs of pain. We don't have patience with pain and should it surface nearing the next dose of meds or after moving, then give your vet feedback..there is still many options should pain pop up. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is really a scary place! Get ready to fight this IVDD enemy now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Make sure your whole family can identify IVDD emergencies with this Fridge flyer: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdf and d/l this card to carry in your wallet for reference at vet visits here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/MedCard.pdf <img src="http://www.dodgerslist.com/literature/medcardSM.png" alt=""><br><br>We realize it may take a couple of days for you to cover the IVDD 101 material. Based on what you've shared, these are my comments:<br><br><br>-- The hardest part about doing 100% STRICT crate rest for a full 8 weeks is wrapping your mind around the WHY of it. Once the WHY of what is healing during the 8 weeks is firmly in your mind, then it is easy to recognize red flag advise to do baths, chiro, water therapy and other things that cause the spine to move. Understand why no couches, no laps, no walking around during potty time. The resource we have for you to read on conservative treatment is your road map for the next 8 weeks. Knowing each of the four levels of healing puts you in position to be an instrumental contributor to healing. Start with the yellow "overview" button www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm -- Stomach protect is really a must when on Metacam, same as it is with any anti-inflammatory. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm Not eating or drinking can very likely be an early sign of Metacam toxicity. The FDA has a very good flyer to help you know exactly what to watch for when using NSAIDs...well worth reading now: www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htm -- From this point on collars will only hold tags. If a leash is to be attached, use a harness. Keep us updated on the Pepcid AC and that pain is being well controlled. |
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Post by Stacy & Wally on Mar 24, 2014 14:57:58 GMT -7
Hi Paula, thank you so much for your reply. I'm in Canada. I've been all over the website and will continue to, to learn as much as I can. I was terrified, but it has helped calm me down reading all this great info. I'm glad there is hope.
I was going to call the vet to see if Wally could sleep in bed with me or if I could hold him and rock in his favourite chair, but I won't now that I've done more reading. I know it's best for him to stay in the crate, as hard as it is.
He went out for a pee and we came back in and I put him back in his crate and gave him his Metacam dose. He then ate some food and finally had a good drink of water. I will ask about Pepcid! He's now resting again and I'm laying by the crate door to be near him.
Thank you again for all the info and your quick reply.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 24, 2014 16:09:01 GMT -7
If Wally becomes rambunctious in his crate such as clawing at it, then you might try to help him relax. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/ Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Avoid if glaucoma, lung disease, heart disease, some forms of thyroid disease, prostate disease or high blood pressure. Other product names may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price Keep up the good job in caring for your sweety, Wally. 8 weeks will go by and before you know it Wally will be back sitting in your lap. In the meantime do what you can to make him feel all is normal. Put his crate on the coffee table and pull in right up to the couch while you watch TV and can touch him through the wires. If you have two crates one might be placed on a sturdy bedside table where you can see and touch him through the wires or even placed on top of your bed if there is room and you can still sleep together. Another option many like is a pet stroller to keep them with your as you move about the house. Strollers do need your presence when use, never left alone in one. More on the stroller idea in the rose colored box on the right www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 25, 2014 5:18:26 GMT -7
Hi Stacey, Wally is just so handsome. You are doing all the right things. We all know how hard crate rest is but you and he will both get through it. I found that I really needed to make sure Mimi felt like she was part of us. We used an ex-pen and kept it in a centrally located place in our living room. This way she could see into our kitchen from there and hang with us in the living room. Also I would sit next to her ex-pen too. She was used to sitting on the couch beside me. I would sit right next to the pen and then she would lay herself along the other side, essentially laying "next to me". This helped to calm her down in the evening so she would rest.
Both you and Wally will ge through this. You are doing a great job.
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Post by Stacy & Wally on Mar 25, 2014 15:02:22 GMT -7
I found a spray they had at the pet store and I'm hoping it may help. Today was a rough day, Wally cried, barked and howled when I left this morning for work. I'm afraid he may have did it all day.
When I came home and opened the crate to take him out, he was so excited to be out. Carried him out for a pee and poop, brought him back in and it has been an hour now and he is still crying, whining, barking. I'm trying not to cry because I know that will make it worse but I just feel so helpless.
I gave him his two meds right after I re-crated him and I'm hoping that they might relax him a little. I'm laying on the floor in front of the crate with my fingers in to stroke him so he knows he's not bad and he did nothing wrong to deserve this. He loves treats, but he still hasn't eaten the one I gave him this morning. He did eat his food and he had a drink so that's good.
This is just so stressful, this helpless feeling. I can't thank you guys enough for creating this. Without you and all the info I've been reading here and other peoples stories I don't know what I would do.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 25, 2014 16:41:51 GMT -7
Stacy, you are doing all the right things for Wally. You may try putting a towel over the top of the crate. This creates a den-like feeling that some dogs really respond to. Also make sure you aren't rewarding the behavior by paying attention to it. Make sure he gets extra attention and praise when he is lying down and resting. Lots of love and praise for the right behavior can make it happen more often.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Mar 26, 2014 10:19:56 GMT -7
Hi, my name is Maureen. Everyone has given you some great ides for helping Wally to learn to be calm in his crate, and eventually he will give in and accept that he is stuck for the duration. If you are concerned that he is fussing the entire time you are gone you can set up a way to record him - some members have used laptops and their smart phone to check in on their dogs. I am not tech savvy and can't tell you how to set it up. What this did was provide reassurance that the dog wasn't howling the entire time they were gone, in fact most gave up quickly and went to sleep for the better part of the day. And if he is carrying on for hours then you know that you need to take to the Vet about calming medications.There are many that are available to help him learn to accept his crate. Hope this helps a bit - keep us posted  |
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Katie & Riley
New Member
Watching that tail like a hawk...
Posts: 31
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Post by Katie & Riley on Mar 26, 2014 15:18:50 GMT -7
Hi Stacey, My husband and I found recording Riley while we were gone really helped with our nerves. He would often make a fuss when we would leave the house, but after a few minutes (maybe 10 in the beginning, but much less as he got used to it) would calm down. Most of their noise is for our benefit and once they know we are gone, they don't continue to waste the energy. Good luck!!
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Post by Stacy & Wally on Mar 27, 2014 15:33:42 GMT -7
I'll see if I can figure out a way to record, that is a great idea, thank you both so much.
Came home tonight to his water and food dish both upside down and his poor nose has the skin scraped off the top. I called my vet to she what they thought and they said it might be better to take him out of the crate and keep him confined to a room where he might be more likely to relax. This scares me, I don't want him walking around but at the same time he is not calm in his crate and I worry he'll hurt himself.
I keep a dark blanket over it during the day so it is more den-like, and it has a soft pad with sheets on top for comfort. I use the spray I bought at the pet store when he is calm, I'm hoping I can associate the smell with calmness. I ignore him when he's upset, and when he is calm I slip him some treats and talk quietly to him.
He's laying in the crate quietly now, I can't see his eyes but I'm sure he's not sleeping. I know he's got to give in and just realize that this is how it has to be, I guess I was just hoping it would be sooner rather than later. Thank you for your responses, it helps to know you're out there. Thank you.
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Katie & Riley
New Member
Watching that tail like a hawk...
Posts: 31
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Post by Katie & Riley on Mar 27, 2014 16:02:42 GMT -7
Stacy, when we first got Riley we had a really hard time crate training him. He was 3 and I don't think he had EVER been in a crate before. Something that worked for us was setting him up in one room and keeping the TV on in a different room. Another thing we tried was recording ourselves having a conversation and cooking in the kitchen and then we would play that on repeat when we left... Both those things have some level of success. But honestly, the best thing has been crate rest for 8 weeks... he has just gotten so used to it over time. Also, when is is finally laying quietly in the crate, reward him with something very high in value (chicken or bacon worked well for Riley. One tiny piece and he got the message loud and clear!) Good luck... I know it can be hard!
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Mar 27, 2014 18:30:30 GMT -7
Hi Stacy, I'm Sabrina. I'm so sorry to hear of Wally's episode. As he needs both to be in his crate and to be calm, it sounds like he's going to need some medicine prescribed for him to help him relax in the crate. The hallmark of Conservative treatment for IVDD is the 100% strict crate rest. The crate acts as a sort of "cast" - it's always flat, level, firm; and it keeps our intrepid little dogs from dashing off in half a blink of an eye! A small room isn't a good idea because Wally needs the limited movement of crate rest so that he can develop secure scar tissue to protect his healing disc(s): www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingdisc.htmDo ask your vet what calming medication can be prescribed for Wally so that he can safely rest during his 8 weeks of crate rest and not injure himself any further. Let us know what your vet will prescribe for Wally - and hang in there! We are here for you! ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by Stacy & Wally on Mar 31, 2014 16:11:35 GMT -7
Just an update, Saturday we went to see our vet who prescribed valium for Wally, 1/4 of a 5mg pill and to increase to 1/2 a pill if needed because he is just too agitated in the crate. He's been in there over a week now, only out to go to the bathroom. I always knew he was stubborn, but even this has surprised me that he just hasn't given up and realized that this is how it's going to be for a while.
He finished his Tramadol and Gabapentin last night but is to remain on the Metacam until at least the 10th of April, when we go back for a check up. Vet said he can start coming out of the crate this coming weekend for short stretches confined to a room (that'll only be 2 weeks in) and I'm to keep an eye out for anything out of the ordinary and any pain of course, but I'm too worried and I'm going to leave him in his crate.
Thanks for being here everyone!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Mar 31, 2014 17:42:19 GMT -7
Good for you for deciding to follow your new IVDD learning and keep Wally confined to his crate. It would be a shame to have him reinjure himself by getting his freedom before his 8 weeks of crate rest is up. too bad that your Vet doesn't understand IVDD as well as you are learning too, but you can help educate him too! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 1, 2014 8:00:18 GMT -7
Stacy, kudos to you on recognizing the need to remain on 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks to allow the disc to make strong scar tissue!
About the Metacam, did you ever get Pepcid AC on board to protect the GI tract?
Normally when the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a stop of anti-inflammatory (Metacam) and pain meds. Usually the first course of anti-inflammatory will be 5 or 7 days and then a test stop. Your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain (shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight). To have a clear picture on a stop, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too.
Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on non-steroid anti-inflammatory (NSAID), pain meds and Pepcid AC needed.
So my question would be why is a full test not being given to ascertain if there really is swelling still going on with the stop of Metacam but instead 10 more days on it? Metacam is a powerful anti-inflammatory...when it needs to be taken it does wonderful things. If given and there is no longer any benefit to be gained, then all you do is expose Wally to all the potential side effects of serious damage to GI tract and vital organs.
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Apr 1, 2014 21:07:22 GMT -7
Hi Stacy and Wally, Boy does your Wally sound stubborn!! Sounds like my Freddie. Hang in there..great call with sticking to the 8 weeks. The first vet we went to didn't even mention a crate and fred got worse  when I told the second vet about the 8 weeks he totally agreed with it. Anyway..here are some tips from one Stacy to another that helped us go through this twice, one right after the other.. Fred was more calm when I wasn't around I spied in him when he thought I was gone..so if he was particularly agitated I would go hide in the garage for a bit. The seperation sucked but was necessary for him to remain calm. See what Wally does when he thinks you are not there. I also gave him a sedative on the really bad nights, can't remember the name but it started with Ace. When your Wally is totally pain free he will want to run..and will try..so..POTTY PEN..POTTY PEN..POTTY PEN. I think this helped the most. A much better way of controlling movement. When Fred became pain free he would tug on his leash. Think I paid a total of 20.00 on mini garden fences at home depot. We elevated his crate by securing it to a wagon that we could move from one room to another. This was huge because at night I pulled the crate next to our bed, so he was litterally 2 feet from where he normally sleeps in the bed. I would stick my hand in and pet him good night. The ladies here are absolutely right about stomach protection! Second time around Fred pooped blood and he was already on famotidine. As scary as this is it sounds like you got this. So stay strong Stacy. Wishing you and Wally a pain free and fast recovery!! |
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when I told the second vet about the 8 weeks he totally agreed with it. Anyway..here are some tips from one Stacy to another that helped us go through this twice, one right after the other..