Miranda's Rocky 2/23 Conservative

Welcome to Dodgerslist. What's your name? Mine's Marjorie.  What breed is Rocky?  Please let your dog know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

1. Pain. Rocky's pain must be brought under control today. Pain hinders healing and there should be no sign of pain from one dose of the pain  meds to the next.  What are the exact doses in mgs and frequency of all meds?  Once we have more information about the dosage of the meds, we can advise you further.  Gabapentin works well with Tramadol and can be added.

2.  Crate rest.  100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

Therapy on a water treadmill must wait until the full 8 weeks of conservative care is finished.

3. Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before the dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.

4. Bladder control. Dogs usually don't pee where they sleep. Rocky may have lost bladder control and if so, you'll need to learn how to express his bladder. It may just be, as you said, that Rocky is in too much pain when lifted and taken outside to pee but it's essential to find out if he can release urine on his own or if his bladder is just overflowing from reflex. Urine that lies in the bladder for too long can breed a urinary tract infection and can stretch the bladder out of shape. You would need a hands on your hands demonstration of expressing. Here's our page on expressing for more info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm




5.  Worsening of neuro function.  You have reported that Rocky lost the use of his legs while on crate rest.  Vets with a good knowledge of IVDD often will switch to a stronger anti-inflammatory (steroid) when there is loss of neuro function.  There should be a 4-7 day wash-out period when switching from a NSAID (Rimadyl) to a steroid but if there is a medical necessity, it can be done with the addition of Pepcid AC and Sucralfate to protect against side effects.  Again, a consult with a knowledgeable neurologist or vet would be needed to see if this is warranted.

5. Finding a vet.  If your vet has been aware of Rocky's pain for the past three weeks and has not been able to get it under control, he may not have enough knowledge about IVDD and it may be in Rocky's best interests to find another vet for an emergency consult. Plus, this vet has recommended water treadmill, which would be very dangerous for a dog going through an IVDD episode. A neurologist can be consulted with to get the correct meds on board.   

Board-certified neuros (ACVIM) and ortho (ACVS) surgical specialists can be found at University vet teaching hospitals. You can locate others in your area here:

www.acvim.org [neuros]

online.acvs.org/acvsssa/rflssareferral.query_page?P_VENDOR_TY=VETS [orthos]



Dodgerlist Members' vet recommendations - dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting



6. Is Rocky eating and drinking OK?

7. Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all meds and there is no pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk but only after all meds are stopped and there is no pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm

Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.

We have a very helpful DVD that will educate you, your family members and friends, pet sitters, etc. about caring for an IVDD dog. Please see the link in my signature line.

Please don't despair. IVDD is not a death sentence. Many dogs regain use of their legs and even if they don't, their lives can be happy ones.
www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm

Nerves can take a long time to heal - months, even a year or more, so don't look for too much improvement right now.  His pain needs to be brought under control so he can rest comfortably in his crate during the rest of the 8 weeks of crate rest.  Please know that we're here for you and Rocky.  Healing prayers for your boy.

Hi Miranda, I am Pauliana, welcome to Dodgerslist from me too.  So glad you are here with us..

It is better to keep Rocky in the crate or in a recovery suite even when you are home.. You can put his favorite bed in the recovery suite.. Check out this link for ideas on how to set it up:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

Just think what if someone rang the doorbell or there was some commotion outside.. Rocky would be inclined to run to the door to see what was happening and in so doing could re-injure his early healing disc.  It is far better to prevent that from happening. Believe me these rascals are quite capable of doing the unexpected, we have seen it here on Dodgerslist many times and when they re-tear the healing disc it sets them way back in their recovery, which means more vet visits and more expense for you and Rocky pays for it by increased pain..   

Glad you won't be taking him back for the water treadmill until after 8 weeks of crate rest is over.. The most important thing you can do for Rocky is crate rest.. It is lack of movement that allows the disc to heal. Think of the crate as a cast on a broken leg.

A tight hard belly is a sign of pain, as is reluctance to move. He should be pain free from dose to dose.  It is important to give his Tramadol every 8 hours regularly to keep his pain under control and the Rimadyl every 12 hours as prescribed to work on the swelling in his spinal cord which is what is causing the pain.  Once his pain is under control  he can heal, as pain slows down healing.  If his pain is still not in control with the medications on schedule, then they would need to be adjusted in dosage or in frequency or with a change in medications..If you aren't home to give his Tramadol every 8 hours, do you have a relative or trusted friend who can come over and give him his Tramadol?  The reason for this is Tramadol is a short acting drug and really isn't effective when given every 12 hours..  Please read this for further information:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm       www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm

Did you ask the Vet about starting him on Pepcid AC to protect his stomach from the Rimadyl as Marjorie wrote above? 

Sending comforting hugs your way and healing prayers for Rocky from Tyler (My own IVDD dog..) and me..

Miranda can you update this list of meds with what you're currently giving. Tell us how often you are actually giving Each.
Miranda, can you update the list of meds:
--How much does Rocky weigh?

Tramadol HCI 50mg- 1/2 tablet 8-12hrs
Methohcarbamol 500 mg- 1/4 tablet 2x/day. STOPPED
Rimadyl 25 mg- 1/2 tablet 2x/day

-- Little pain is not good enough there should be no pain at all. Let us know that you are not seeing any signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping, not wanting to move very much, not his normal perky self.

-- If Rocky has indeed lost bladder control, by now he may already have a UTI from not being expressed. This is a serious health issue. Can he be placed on an old pee spot, let him sniff and then see if he will choose to release urine. Urine leaks in bedding and leaking on you interrupted our signs of loss of bladder control. It would be a good thing to have a urinalysis taken today to rule out urinary tract infection and to get a lesson on expressing the Bladder

-- Pepcid AC is VERY important to protecting the stomach. Should have been on board at the start of Rimadyl 3/14 use. Please, please make sure you get stomach protection on board TODAY as long as Rimadyl is in use.

-- Can he wag his tail specifically if you do some happy talk to him?

-- Can he now move his legs at all?

Let us know how the visit goes with expressing and okay Re: getting Pepcid AC on board. Remember ask the question in this particular way: is there any health issues why my dog may not take Pepcid AC?

Having a happy tail wag is a very good sign, Miranda. As is making movements with his legs, even if small. It would be best not to tickle his paws as that will make him flinch and pull back his legs and you want to limit his movement as much as possible. He obviously has deep pain sensation since he can wag his tail.

The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all meds and there is no pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk but only after all meds are stopped and there is no pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm

I would definitely ask for a urinalysis when you see the vet tomorrow as Paula recommended. Urinary tract infections are common with dogs without bladder control and he may have a delay in peeing due to painful urination. It's best to get it checked.

Hope the vet visit goes well.

He is peeing on his own and poo poo as well. Seems after he received acupuncture last Thursday 3/20 he has been very sore. But it is now Wednesday 3/26 almost a week later and it seems he is still in pain. Not a lot where he doesn't want to move at all but when he does move or we pick him up he cries a bit. This was his 1st session. This week is his 5th week since he injured himself. He is currently only on
tramadol 50mg 1/2 tablet every 8-12 hours.

We may think his cAge is maybe a little small for him to actually turn around in it. I don't know if this is making him feel uncomfortable while my husband and I are at work...his belly isn't solid hard but a little firm.

He can still wag his tail. It seems there is still feeling in his back legs....just no strength to put any weight on them. We know he still feels because of the acupuncture and when he rolls on his side he can still I guess you can say carry them. Where there not just laying there. They do twich or slightly move when we occasionally touch his bottom of his paws.

Hi Miranda,

Since Rocky is still in pain, that means the swelling in his spinal cord from the disc is still an issue.  Pain equals swelling which means more time on the anti inflammatory needed.  He was taking Rimadyl and on March 19th you mentioned he had 4 more days on it, so it ran out around March 24th, correct?  He needs to go back on it  to get rid of the swelling once and for all. Once the swelling is resolved the pain will be be gone as well and then he would need no more pain medications for the duration of crate rest..Please do call your Vet and let them know he is still in pain and needs to be back on Rimadyl.  make sure he is on Pepcid AC as well  5 mg everry 12 hours  30 minutes before each dose of the Rimadyl.

How often are you giving him the Tramadol, every 8 hours or every 12 hours?  Have  no patience with pain.  The goal is pain free from dose to dose so he can heal in comfort. Pain slows down healing so this is top priority right now.   www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm

Also give him a larger cage or an ex pen so he can comfortably turn around and stretch out his legs.  Check out this page with pictures to give you some ideas..  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

Hello all, just wanted to post an update about Rocky. He is doing very well. We did our first acupuncture 2 weeks ago. The Dr ended up giving him a B12 Injection after his acupuncture treatment which made him a bit sore. He started to walk a week after the initial acupuncture treatment. We waited about 2 weeks before we scheduled the next acupuncture treatment. This time the Dr used smaller acupuncture needles (because of the soreness) and he didnt give the B12 inj, he thought it may be good to skip that bc of the soreness as well. So here we are 4 days after the second treatment and he doing even better. The Dr. sent us home with some exercises to do with Rocky and we have been working with him every day. Every day I see more progress. We are on our 7th week and looking forward to the 8th week so we can get him started on the water treadmill. Every day he gets braver and braver and I keep a close eye on him. He is wanting to run before he can walk. He is such a good boy and I am so happy that he is making a recovery. I cant believe that just 7 weeks ago he had no mobility in his back legs. There is hope and it just takes time. Thank you all for the kind words and support. Will keep you posted.