Carrie’s Ollie 3/21 surgery Beagle NECK?

Carrie, welcome to Dodgerslist.  

With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm  

We realize it may take a couple of days for you to cover the IVDD 101 material. Below is my comment to get things expedited.

-- Surgical costs vary widely across the USA. Sometimes neighboring states are less costly due less taxation. This article will help you learn more about surgery and when and which kind of vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

-- Have you been doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 since the start of this disc episode 8 weeks ago?  Carried to and from the potty place or if too heavy then the least amount of footsteps to get there. And then at the potty  place only a very, very few footsteps to get the job done?  No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.

-- Other than panting do you see these other signs of pain: - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, not his normal perky self, holds head high or nose to the ground?

-- How much does your dog weigh? List the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? What was the start dose of cortisone, what was date of taper. Is cortisone the exact name of the steroid?
 
Anti-inflammatories can increase GI tract damage. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection 30 mins before steroid and thereafter every 12 hours. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds:
www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm

-- Eating and drinking OK?
- How are poops today- normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

We look forward to learning more about Ollie so we can best support you.

Carrie doing crate rest is sorta like being pregnant.  You either are pregnant or you are not. Either you are doing crate rest 24/7 out only at times to potty or you are not doing crate rest.

If you intend to give Ollie every opportunity to heal his neck disc you'll need self education about IVDD in order to fully commit to full and complete inside his recovery suite 24/7 only out to potty.  I know you probably already started on our Main Web page.  May I suggest this overview page and the video clip to help you more easily visualize the need for minimal movement of the verterbrae:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm   Also have you been able to implement all these extra things you can do with a neck disc which I do believe is likely the current problem as you mention holding his head low:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm

 If you can safely carry him that contributes to limiting movement of the spine, the back & neck.  If carrying him is not feasible, then you have to think outside the box on what you can do to make getting to the potty place just minimal footsteps. For example placing the recovery suite on casters to roll to the sliding glass door.  Placing dirt or grass on the deck so Ollie is taking  just a few footsteps out the sliding glass door to a spot to potty on the deck.  During the winter I used snow on the deck to make a potty spot.
      

How many mgs of Dex is he getting every other day?  What was the initial anti-inflammatory dose in mgs and how many times a day that started on ?  Currrently he is on a steroid taper of Dex.  Did the pain last Saturday coincide with a recent reduction of Dex? Did the  pain perhaps coincide with more than the allowed movement the recovery suite would have provided... walking too fast, walking too much, 

On what date was the MRI taken?  What was the purpose of the MRI, was surgery intended, was there a suspicion there might be something else that mimicked the signs of a disc problem?  What kind of vets, a general DVM vet or a vet with specialist training: neuro DVM, ACVIM vet? ortho DVM ACVS vet?

What did the vet prescribe  re: Dex when you notified about the pain showing on the taper?

What is the stumbling block for not having his stomach protected with Pepcid AC (famotidine)?  Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach.  This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds:
www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm

All hope is not lost. Some dogs have had to just stay on a steroid longer than usual. Can you now commit to the strict 24/7 in the recovery suite?  Hang in there.  

What is your city/state?

Have you checked adjacent states?  Adjacent states with less onerous government taxes, University veterinary teaching hospitals can be good options should it be necessary at some point to give consideration to surgery. Excellent resources to understanding about surgery, specialist  locators, and member reported costs: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm   

Let me see if I can remember your post before it got lost. My apologies again.

You are now giving .5mg of Dex every other day? Dex is one of the most powerful and longer lasting of the steroids. So it would take a while to get out of his system and down to a less than anti-inflammatory level. At the point it is no longer working on inflammation the pain would increase IF there is still swelling going on in the spinal cord. So you have your answer, you are seeing pain and therefore there is still swelling of the spinal cord.

If you discussed that surgery would not be an option, why was such an expensive picture taken? Taking an MRI would not change the course of treatment when doing conservative treatment. Conservative would have ALL the vertebrae moving as minimally as possible with the aid of a recovery suite that is used 24/7.

Yes, there can be muscle atrophy. There is a risk with everything in life. We might be run over by a car going too fast as we walk across a parking lot to the grocery store's door. But the risk is worth it to get the benefit of food. Muscles will quickly bulk up again when the disc has had time to form good secure scar tissue at the end of 8 weeks. Once the spinal cord has been injured there is a potential for permanent paralysis that can never come back. Muscle atrophy vs. potential of paralysis-- is the risk of PT now worth the risk of loss of bladder control, loss of leg use? Or is the bit of muscle atrophy an acceptable risk while allowing time for the disc to heal?

New York would be one of the highest in surgical costs. It would be worthwhile to investigate driveable adjacent states.  Look into Care Credit now to know all your options, financially and where surgery could be done, ahead of time.  No or low interest credit for veterinary costs can be obtained from Care Credit. You find out online if you qualify:
www.carecredit.com/faqs.html

Board-certified neuros (ACVIM) and ortho (ACVS) surgical specialists can be found at University vet teaching hospitals. You can locate others in your area here:
www.acvim.org
online.acvs.org/acvsssa/rflssareferral.query_page?P_VENDOR_TY=VETS

Tramadol can have a temporary side effect of panting as can Dex. Dr. Isaacs discusses this issue at the Neuro Corner: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/panting.htm  You might see if a fan near the recovery suite but not pointed at him will help.  
---Try a flexible ice pack: ziplock bag fill with 2 parts water and 1 part rubbing alcholol. The alcohol will keep the water from freezing solid so it will be more comfortable to lean on. Wrap ice pack with cloth/towel and allow him to lay his tummy area near to cool down.
--Also a rice sock from the refrigerator can help them cool by laying their
tummy along side of it. Fill a sock with 1-2 cups of rice and tie the end of the sock closed.
--Try a frozen broth ice cube to lick on.

Do not wait on getting Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board. Keep your vet in the loop on Monday. As always do your homework on each med Ollie is on:  www.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspx

Carrie, we depend on members who report their surgical costs, sorry there have not been any current member submittals for your city.

Conservative treatment is a viable treatment and what surgeons will try first as it is non-invasive. Any surgery has risks that you want to understand ahead of time so that if things do not go as planned you know you made the best decision at the time with the information you had. Neither treatments (surgery nor conservative) have guarantees.

100% STRICT Crate rest can take time... the time is for letting the disc heal. No meds heal a disc. IF meds simply can't get pain in control when aggressively prescribed, then indeed surgery is a consideration.

Using the term "working" or "improving" are not useful when discussing a disc episode. There are four phases of healing... each heals in a different way, different amount of time. Some take meds, some depend on self healing.
1. Pain control is the first phase. If aggressive pain meds can't get pain in 100% control then surgery is a consideration
2. Disc healing - takes 8 weeks of little movement. Moving aggrevates scar tissue formation and prolongs healing
3. Swelling resolution - can take 7-30 days to get all the painful inflammation down in the spinal cord.
4. Nerve healing - has no limit on time. Functions can have the potential to return in weeks or with severe damgage think in terms of months or even close to a year.

I hear you about how stressful a disc episode is. It was the same way for me in the beginning when I did not have an understanding of the overall picture. With this disease self-education is critical for not just your emotions but so you can best protect Ollie.  You may find the answers Dr. Isaacs (ACVIM Neurology) wrote for Dodgerslist helpful to you:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm

We are here to support you in your decision and anxiously await hearing how the surgery goes tomorrow.