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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Mar 11, 2014 19:57:04 GMT -7
-- What is your dog's name? Houdini (and I'm Kathleen, my boyfriend is Tyler. We have three dogs - Henry, Holly, and Houdini - with Houdini being the sweetest and cutest <3 ) -- How much does your dog weigh? 13.5lb --What breed is your dog and did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD? mixed breed rescue - dachshund/poodle(?) about 3-4 yrs old -- What was the date you saw the vet and started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? I took him in on the morning of 3/7 because he was acting strange and in pain, hiding under tables and sitting on my feet wherever I went. Refused to use his steps to get on the bed and fell when trying to jump to the couch. Took him to the vet an hour after I noticed the behavior starting and they found him "depressed but alert, tense abdominals w vocalization, uncomfortable upon vertebral palpation at TL junction," diagnosed as a lumbar strain, w medication prescribed and instructions to restrict activity for 2 wks. The next morning (3/8) my boyfriend took him back to the vet because he was trembling again and yelping when touched. After that visit they found him "painful, w moderate pain on palpation of TL spine, slow hopping but normal knuckling of bilateral hind limbs," diagnosed as intervertebral disk disease-thoracolumbar, additional medicine prescribed, and instructions to confine to crate for 3-4 weeks. We gave him his medications when he came back home and he slept for several hours and seemed to be feeling better. When we picked him up and set him on the ground to go outside, he couldn't stand or move his legs and started frantically scooting, yelping, and chewing on his back feet. We rushed him back to the vet. They weren't able to see us and recommended we go to the emergency animal hospital next door, where we immediately were seen. After they examined him they said he had deep pain but no motor response and the outlook without surgery, while not hopeless, wasn't great. We left him there that night where he was put on a fentanyl IV for pain and scheduled a CT scan for the morning (3/9) w surgery following immediately after barring any other problems arising on the imaging. --Is there still currently pain - He doesn't seem to be in any pain since he's had the surgery, just drugged up at first and now scared and sad.  He was originally prescribed methocarbamol 500mg and rimadyl-carprofen 25mg, then added on tramadol after the second visit. I don't know what medicines he will be on when he comes home. We have visited him every day, from the day of his surgery (3/9) until today (3/11), and he has no movement of his tail or back legs. The vet told us he lost deep pain sensation in one leg after surgery but today they told us it had returned. The techs have been taking him outside on a sling twice a day even though he wasn't able to control his pee or poo. Today when we visited they said they weren't 100% but cautiously thought he might have peed outside. He also rolled onto his back and wiggled around in the grass  He is a very picky eater in the best of times and wasn't eating at first but the vet was able to get him to eat some after trying a couple of different canned foods and hand feeding him. (spoiled!) -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? They haven't said anything was out of the ordinary.We are worried to death about our sweetheart. Neither of us had any idea about this issue until this happened and I came across this group after trying to find out information online. We are trying to learn all we can and are 10000% committed to doing anything and everything to get Houdini healthy and happy again. We went and got him a small crate and pad for his recovery area and both swore to each other to stick to the crate restriction completely. He and I can both be suckers for sad, whiny dogs but as scary as it was seeing Houdini in so much pain, and as worried as we were (and still are) about his condition, I know neither of us want to do anything to risk his safety or recovery. This site has been great in learning about what this disease is and what to expect out of the next few days, weeks, months. This has been a super scary experience and I'm so glad to have found some people to ask about the issues that will no doubt be popping up for us. Fingers crossed that he gets to come home tomorrow!!!! <3 <3  |
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 11, 2014 22:24:35 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist! My name is Pauliana, we are a friendly group and go by first names, what is yours? Please let your Houdini know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmOh I hope he can come home tomorrow! Here is a list of discharge questions you can ask them when you pick him up: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmAs for crates and crate rest, some tips and helpful hints to get you started.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmHere are some ideas to help get your home back friendly once he is off crate rest.. I spent some of the time while my Tyler was on crate rest, getting our home back friendly: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmPlease let us know what medications they send home with Houdini! We suggest 6 weeks post op crate rest for the best chance of recovery. It takes at least 6 weeks for the scar tissue to securely form over the disc.. It is very scary believe me, I know.. I was where you are now, about 14 months ago..Let us know how things are going. You aren't alone with all of us around! Sending comforting hugs your way and lots of prayers for Houdini. |
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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Mar 12, 2014 10:34:31 GMT -7
Houdini is home!!! Just brought him back from the vet and got him snuggled in his new crate w a base pad and his old ratty blanket to make it feel like home. They said just to continue his medication from before - 1/2 tramadol 50mg and 1/4 methocarbamol 500mg every 12 hrs. The tech said he hasn't been showing signs of being in pain at all from that amount. He's only been home for about an hour but seems really stressed out, just obsessively licking his front paws and not really paying any attention to anything else. He just had his medicine, ate and drank a little, and hopefully will go down for a nap soon. Then we will see where he is at with peeing later this afternoon... We were told he's peeing on his own, but then she said he has just been "excited peeing" when they pick him up to take him out. So not sure what that will mean for us. Just glad to have this sweet boy back home <3
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 12, 2014 14:33:34 GMT -7
Glad to hear Houdini is home!!
The only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord:
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.
3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
Let us know what you observe at potty time.
What did the surgeon direct for crate rest and for PT?
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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Mar 12, 2014 18:49:12 GMT -7
He peed when I had him out on the sling but I think it might have just been pressing on him because when we went out later and I just held him up with my hands on his hips, nothing happened. He didn't sniff at the ground or do anything other than just look around. I waited outside with him for about 5 mins then after I picked him up and was about to put him back in his crate he peed all over me lol. Oh well still lots of time to figure things out, it's only his first day home but man it's been a long one! If he needs help peeing I will have to take him back to the vet because they didn't show me and I didn't know what I was feeling for when I felt around on his tummy. I gave him a little sponge bath to get the yuckies off from the vet so he looks and smells a lot better. After I toweled him all dry and fluffy again, I did a little light rubbing and moving of his legs, doing some gentle bends on his knees and ankles and also just a little rub all over since I imagined he was pretty sore from everything. He conked straight out in the middle of it so it must have felt good I asked if it was ok to do that when we left the vet and they just said "if you want to, it couldn't hurt." The surgeon wasn't there today so we are going to call back tomorrow to ask a few more questions they couldn't help us with. The discharge instructions they sent w us only say to confine at home for 3-4 wks w no running or jumping, crating when we are not present. Obviously we are going to do the 6 wks strict crate rest recommended on here regardless. The surgeon made a note that when Houdini comes back for his 30 day checkup, he wants to discuss laser ablation with us as a possible precaution to this recurring (assuming he gets walking again). |
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 12, 2014 20:48:43 GMT -7
Hi Kathleen, Here is an article on Expressing with a video.. It will help you get more out of the lesson from your Vet or Vet tech. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmWhen they wait so long to go, what happens is they overflow and that isn't a good thing. It can damage bladder tone, and also bacteria can build up and cause a Urinary tract infection.. so please do get that expressing lesson right away. __ Clean up: No baths during post op crate rest. Unscented baby wipes for quick clean up on skin & fur. Marjorie's tip: boil and cool green tea to dampen a washcloth and gently clean Houdini. Green tea neutralizes urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald + clean fragrance. Use white vinegar in a spray bottle to kill the bacteria and the odor they cause on floors, linens, carpets, etc. So glad Houdini is home with you to heal in comfort.. |
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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Mar 13, 2014 3:37:26 GMT -7
I had already watched the video it was just still hard to tell what I was feeling for. I took him out this morning and while he didn't pee on his own, I did try expressing again and he peed a good amount so I feel a little better. I have to go back home today (2hrs away) so my bf will be taking care of Houdini by himself and I think he's going to take him by the vet when he gets off work in a few hours. Hopefully I will be back later tonight. He hasn't peed in his crate and has gone three times in the 13-14 hrs or so that he's been home so I don't think he's been having to wait a really long time in between.
I didn't give him a real bath, just wiped off w some warm water and a washrag.
He seems a little more peaceful but still anxious, lots of foot licking. Definitely paying attention more tho and watching us walk around, giving kisses when we pet him so that's good I guess.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 13, 2014 6:31:07 GMT -7
When Houdini's bladder is very full, it will fill up his belly area. As the urine is released, it will get smaller and will move around. It feels like a balloon. Sometimes it will slip back to the hip area. When it's empty, your fingers will almost meet as it will be flat. It does take practice but you'll get there. Keep a close eye on that licking to see that it doesn't turn into obsessive licking or chewing. You should let the vet know about it. It could be neuropathic pain, which Gabapentin can help with. Pain varies in degrees from mild to severe on-fire sensations. Everyone has experienced numbness or pins and needles tingling in your legs when sitting in a bad position for too long a time. Your dog can be feeling abnormal nerve sensations that are mild pins and needles but which could progress to painful burning, on-fire feeling that makes them bite to stop the pain. These are abnormal signals… neuropathic pain. Dogs have tragically chewed off body parts to stop the pain. An e-collar on or in a pinch a lengthwise folded towel, secured closed with duct tape can keep them from reaching their legs til you get vet help. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/neuropathy.pdf |
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Melissa & Deucy
New Member
Our sweet, precious girl…fight on, Deucy!
Posts: 51
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Post by Melissa & Deucy on Mar 13, 2014 20:14:59 GMT -7
Hang in there! this is a really tough experience to go through. This site is so great and supportive. I sending healing prayers and thoughts to your little guy
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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Mar 14, 2014 14:01:38 GMT -7
So we took houdini in to the vet to see about the peeing issue. They told me he was peeing on his own when he went home so if he peed on me now or in his crate he was just being bad and acting out. I said that I had tried expressing a couple of times and it had seemed to work but I wanted them to show me so I knew how to do it correctly and she said that I wouldn't be able to express him since he had bladder control. That confused me a little bit but I stuck w my gut and told her that I really didn't think he had control and didn't think he was peeing on purpose and she finally agreed to test him out and surprise, he peed all over a pee pad when she expressed him. She didn't really have anything to say about that and said the surgeon was in the OR at the moment but she was gonna go ask him about it. When she came back she said he told her maybe it was just a special case and that yes, I should express him and that 3x a day should probably be enough for him.
I asked why it was so difficult to feel his bladder and she told me that every dog is different and that his shape and positioning of his bladder along with him muscle tenseness along his belly (which is always tense, not just when he is stressed) just makes it really hard to feel. Showed me just where to expect it to be and how to do it and said it would just take practice.
He finally pooped a little this morning which I was relieved about. Was afraid that was going to be another issue to ask about but seems like its slowly starting back up. Also when I was rubbing his legs last night and again this morning when I had him standing up to pee, I noticed one of his back legs was tensed up. I don't know what you call it, not like supporting his weight but def not limp like the other leg. Could feel the muscles "activated" or whatever and felt resistance when I pushed against his foot. That's good right?!
I'm trying to stay really positive and happy through all this but honestly it's hard. I have a pretty significant anxiety disorder and I feel like all this going on with him is just sending it through the roof. I'm just trying to remind myself that he's ok and I'm doing what I need to do, and that I should be thankful he even alive and as good off as he is, but I am just really stressed.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2014 14:21:24 GMT -7
Kathleen, so proud of you to advocate for getting that expressing lesson! Kudos!
When bladder control start to come back, a dog might be able to start a stream but not get all the urine out. When bladder control starts to return a dog may not like you to express. But you will need to do an express check until you are comfortable that they are fully voiding the bladder each time.
It would be a good idea to take Houdini out for a sniff and see if he will urinate periodically. When you know he should have some urine to release but does not, then you express. Try expressing indoors every 4-6 hours where there is less distractions so he does not tense up, easier for you to feel and express. The longer urine stays in the bladder over 4 hours the more likely bacteria can take up breeding in the bladder (UTIs) Dogs normally pee about every 4-6 hours during the daylight hours. At night Houdini ought to be able to stay dry until morning.
You might try a warmed towel from the dryer to relax the tummy before expressing.
Tramadol can be constipating. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.
It is difficult for us humans to differentiate between reflexes and true brain directed movements. So this is why we alway look for a head level activity (looking, sniffing, biting, vocalizing) along with a movement of the legs, use of the bladder to know if the brain directed the movement. Leg movements at potty time, stretching the legs can be reflex.
It is still so very early and plenty of time for nerves to heal, in fact there is not a time limit for nerve healing. Think in terms of months so you are not on edge looking at every movement wondering if.... Nerves are the slowest part of the body to regenerate.
You are doing a wonderful job in caring for Houdini. Kepp up the good job!
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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Mar 23, 2014 19:11:41 GMT -7
So it's been a little while since I posted about Houdini... today marks 2 weeks since his surgery!!
His bandage fell off yesterday, and today we went and got his staples out. Finally got the go ahead from the vet for a little mini bath now that his staples are out and it's good for him not to smell like pee anymore. Things are not really that much different otherwise. His appetite is much better now which is a relief. I caught him actually eating his dry food in his cage today which he hasn't touched in 2 weeks. Glad he is getting his appetite back and isn't going to be stuck on canned food forever.
As for potty time, I think he's getting back some ability but I'm not sure. Since yesterday, he would pee a little bit on his own when I would take him outside, but wouldn't pee fully, I still had to express afterwards. Does this mean something is coming back? I almost convinced myself I was imagining it, but today he did it again every time I took him out... except he really doesn't want me to hold his butt up or press his belly anymore like I've been doing. He's really fighting to get away from me and struggling when I express him. The vet said it was ok to let him scoot a little if it helps him learn to pee on his own again.. and he will make one little scoot, sniff the grass and then pee while he's sitting down.. then make another scoot, etc. He has always been a multi-pee type of dog, having to pee in a million different spots, and it seems like that is what is happening here. I let him do that a couple times and then express the rest. He absolutely hates a sling, it just sits on his business and pinches off the pee anyway so I mostly just hold him up by his legs/rear.
He's been on one trip to therapy so far, where he had electro acupuncture done. The vet (different from our normal) recommended he come twice a week for acupuncture, laser, and water therapy (once bandage is off). She also said to let him have some time out of the crate as long as he wasn't overexerting himself or in danger of falling/getting jumped on/left alone/etc. I said I hadn't been letting him out since I read on here it was important to keep him confined and she said that was an outdated way of thinking and that safe and controlled activity was important for his recovery. So that has been the neurosurgeon, our vet, and another vet saying he should have some time out of his crate. After what I've read on here it's a little confusing.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 24, 2014 4:56:03 GMT -7
Glad to hear how well Houdini is doing Kathleen! It definitely does sound as though his bladder control is coming back. If you don't feel he's completely emptying his bladder, you are correct in expressing afterwards. Hopefully, he'll be able to empty his bladder by himself soon as he will object to being expressed as his bladder control returns. Wonderful news! As for crate rest, the surgery was only two weeks ago. It can take 2-4 weeks for the swelling around his spine to resolve and until then, the swelling is still pressing on his spine. Is he still on any medication? If he is, that medication will mask any pain he may have. The only time Houdini should be out of the crate at this point is for potty time and for controlled, supervised PT. What directions has the surgeon given for PT at home and for crate rest? The surgeon is the one to know best how much Houdini should be able to do. PT is always supervised, slow and deliberate and with your full attention on the dog. When you are not doing PT then back in the crate til graduation day. We usually see surgeons prescribing 6 weeks of crate rest following this major surgery. When you say that the neurosurgeon said he should have some time out of his crate, was he referring to time out doing PT and potty? Please take a look at Dr. Isaacs' thoughts on post-surgery care concerning crate rest and PT: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm#restPTAlso, here are our recommendations for physical therapy if you'd like to take a look to see if there is anything you'd like to try - if so, please run it by the surgeon first before starting. I found these exercises very helpful in my Jeremy's recovery after surgery. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm |
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Post by Kathleen & Houdini on Apr 27, 2014 17:08:18 GMT -7
Houdini update! things were a little discouraging for a while. We've been doing PT 2x a week, 2 sessions per visit (one of electro acupuncture, one of water treadmill, balance ball, massage, hanging traction, etc). week after week was going by and nothing was changing. we were happy enough because he was happy, it was just sad seeing him so different. he was becoming much more active and scooting around all over the place and started absolutely shredding his toes, heels, and tops of feet. I tried some little rubber socks from the pet store but he wasn't having it so i started using that self sticking sports tape type stuff and keeping his feet wrapped and he's been loving it and can scoot around the yard without hurting himself. Probably about a week and a half ago he started wagging his tail a little.. well not a true wag but a jerking side-and-up motion but good enough for me! Yesterday!! he came flying down the hallway w one back leg underneath him holding him up. His other leg was still a limp noodle behind him but one was a little peg leg and his booty was def off the floor! Today i came home from the store and he was standing on all four legs!!! just in the middle of the room, staring at me, looking happy. came hopping over, and i def see where the drunk walk term came from. He does kind of ok inside bc of the slick floors but outside he starts dragging again and he gets tired really quickly. i am just SO EXCITED to see him doing better!!!! We are going to keep going with the PT bc he still has more progress to go on getting some muscle and strength. I know you guys preach patience and it is SO hard, every day that went by i couldn't help the little voice telling me he was as good as he was going to get. even if he never walked again I would still love him just as much but I can't deny it made my week seeing that!! |
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 28, 2014 4:45:38 GMT -7
Thank you for sharing the wonderful update, Kathleen! Excellent signs of nerve improvement for Houdini. Yes, it can be so very hard to be patient, as well I know. Try to take it one day at a time and hopefully you'll continue to see signs of improvement. I know my Jeremy continued to improve for over a year after his surgery, although his surgeon had told me that there would be no more improvement after three months. Nerves are slow to heal but heal they can as you are seeing. Keep up the good work with him, Kathleen - you're doing a great job!
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