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Post by Sherri & Shiloh on Mar 9, 2014 11:51:54 GMT -7
My 7 year old beagle/bassett mix has been zapped by IVDD. I never knew this existed. I need some words of hope.
We have just relocated to this area so we did not have a vet yet. He was acting very lethatgic and just not "right" so we chose a vet close to home and took him in. The vet diagnosed a UTI, this was done with no urinealysis, just a "finger up the butt" and declared UTI. He put him on Ciprofloxin. 5 days later he was no better so we went to another vet for a 2nd opinion. This vet did blood work, xray, CTscan, urinealysis and checked him head to toe and said he had a bulging disc. He was put on
Prednisone
Tramadol
Methocarbanal
They told us no steps, no running, no jumping and keep him quiet. My husband built a ramp out our back steps and we kept him leashed for potty breaks. They told us to come back in 1 week. He started doing amazingly better. He could walk, had control over bladder and bowels, could wag his tail, almost back to his old self. His walk was wobbly, but much better. We took him for the 1 week check up, they said everything looked good and keep doing what we were. We got home, carried him in and that was it. He layed down in the living room and didn't move for 5 days. He wouldn't walk, wouldn't do anything. We called the vet the first night and told him what happened and he said it was from the stress of the exam and being carried and put in the car and he would get better by morning. He didn't.
On the 5th day we called our vet back and they said "there's nothing more we can do". That broke our hearts. So I called a 3rd vet and explained the situation and he agreed to see him. We were to go in the next day. The evening before the vet appt. Shiloh got up and walked! Shaky, but walking. He went to his water bowl. So we kept our appt. with the new vet who told us we had been given a miracle. He said usually once a dog goes down there isn't much hope but he seemed to have recovered a bit. He said the only thing he would have done differently than the 2nd vet was to not have him come back after only 7 days, he would have waited 14 days at least to give more healing time. So he told us to keep him as quiet as possible and come back in 2 weeks, and he is still on the same meds. He has no stomach upset, he's eating well, doesn't seem to have pain, and still can wag his tail, stand, poop and pee.
He has never been crated, but we bought a crate to give it a try. It stressed him out and I didn't think that was good so we put the crate in our bedroom and blocked off both sides of our bed so he has very little room to move. He can stand up, turn around, and that's about it. He has gotten into his crate a few times, we keep his bed in there, and he will take naps in it. We have to carry him to go on potty breaks which is a chore since he weighs 70 pounds and we are both in our 60's so that isn't easy. We put rugs down in his area so he wouldn't slide on the tile floors, and he has sure footing.
I guess I need hope. Is this going to heal? We're just sick. We've had him since he was 5 weeks old and we are beside ourselves with grief. We just need a ray of hope. Thanks to all who read this.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,595
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 9, 2014 18:07:06 GMT -7
Sherri, welcome to Dodgerlist. We are happy you are here. One of the best things you can do besides making sure Shiloh moves his back/spine the least amount possible to protect that healing disc is reading. To expedite getting things right for your dog, we have information for you now. Our long term hope is that you will take on the duties of self education to be able to understand the IVDD enemy and take an active roll in working with the vet, be an integral part of making decisions based on a sound understanding. I hope as quickly as time permits, you will begin to devour each of the articles in our Disc Disease 101 area. Shiloh is going to be dependent on your abilities. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmBelow are my thoughts and additional information we'll need to best support you. -- What was the date you saw the vet and 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? I guessed it might have been Feb 28. -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? 70 lbs
Prednisone start dose in mgs and ?x/day? Has there been a decrease, a taper, since the original vet visit?
Tramadol ? mgs , ?x/day
Methocarbanal ? mgs , ?x/day
-- Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness, color no dark or bright red blood?Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm-- The recovery suite is to keep a dog from doing the unexpected in a blink of an eye. The scar tissue forming on the disc can very easily be disrupted with too much movement of the back. You do have more of a challenge than we do with our little doxies. So do all possible to keep the footsteps taken at potty time to the very, very fewest. Move the recovery suite to near the sliding door, maybe some dirt, snow, grass on the deck so Shiloh need take but the very fewest of footsteps at potty time and you limit the length of time you need to carry 70 lbs. Let us know what you think is possible with your home, deck, exit areas. Tips and ideas to make crate rest go smoother: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmShiloh is showing you that the body is awesome in its ability to heal. As long as you can commit to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out for a few steps at potty time for a full 8 weeks, he will likely be a good candidate to recover under conservative treatment. |
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Post by Sherri & Shiloh on Mar 10, 2014 9:22:42 GMT -7
Shiloh first showed signs on Feb 13, 2014. We took him to the first vet who diagnosed a UTI and put him on antibiodics. Ciprofloxin, 250 mg 2x a day. The following day, Feb. 14, he could not walk. We called this vet again and he said to bring him in right away, we did and he said "the bladder is pressing on the spine" and he gave him a shot of steriods and sent him home. He got a bit better but by day 5 we decided to try another vet.
This vet did a total evaluation and said he had a Bulging Disc. He was put on
70 lbs
Methocarbamol, 500 mg, 3x a day,
Predisone, 20 mg, 2x a day; 2/27 pred @ 20mg 1x/day
Tramadol, 50 mg, 3 tablets 3x a day.
Pepcid AC 10mg, 2x/day
He made a great recovery and was able to walk, do bathroom duties outside, wag his tail, scratch his ears using his back legs, and was almost normal. They wanted to see him back in 7 days. We took him back, on February 27th, they said things were doing fine, and to drop the Preidsone to one table per day. That's when he crashed. That day when we got him home he was in terrible condition. He didn't walk for 5 days after that vet visit. We called the vet the first night after his follow up vet visit and was told he was just sore from the transporting and should be fine. On Monday March 3rd we called the vet back and told them that he was still not walking. They said there was nothing else they could do for him.
On Tuesday, March 4th, he walked to his water bowl. I think it was our miracle after 5 days of being down. We made an appointment for Thursday, March 6th with yet a 3rd vet. He didn't want us to bring him into the office but he came out to the car to see Shiloh. He had all the records and xrays from the 2nd vet. He said that since he had began walking again that to take him home, keep him on his meds, and rest him for 2 weeks. We are to go back to him on March 20th.
At this point Shiloh can walk, although wobbly. He has full control of his bladder and bowels. His stools are normal looking. We put him on a low dose of Pepcid AC because he seemed to be in distress so we are giving that to him in the morning about an hour before the meds, and it has helped. He can wag his tail.
The problems we are trying to deal with, and I hope someone has some tips for us, is that we are an older couple in our 60's. Shiloh has been with us for 7 years, since he was 5 weeks old when we found him eating bird seed in our back yard. Someone had dropped this little guy in the middle of nowhere. He weighs 70 pounds and carrying him in and out of the house is causing my husband to have problems. And while my husband is at work he has to hold his bladder/bowels until he gets home. This is heartbreaking to me. We tried to get him to urinate on puppy pads but this dog has never messed in the house and he just won't do it. We have a crate with the door opened in our bedroom. We blocked off all means in the bedroom so once out of his crate he has a very tiny area to lay in. Not big enough to walk in, just big enough to lay down, and turn around. We are hopeful because he is able to stand, but we won't let him walk while outside. It's hard for a beagle/bassett to not have a sniff fest, but we block his movements so he finally relents and does his business, and then we carry him right back in the house and he's in his little tiny area. I massage his back legs and visit him several times a day with little treats and loving.
We lost 5 valuable days with the first vets diagnosis of a UTI. During those days we did not keep him quiet because we didn't know anything was wrong. This first vet didn't even do a urinalsis, just deemed UTI and that was it. Looking back I could kick myself but we didn't know. We trusted him. Then when the 2nd vet said they couldn't help us anymore and that he needed put down we were beside ourselves. The vet we are using now has given us hope and encouragment. His parting words were "just do what you can do" and we feel confident with him.
This website is amazing and I thank you all for the wealth of knowledge and encouragement. We love our dog and he is part of our family. We will do whatever we can do get him over this. Thank you.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,595
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 10, 2014 11:26:50 GMT -7
Sherri, I recommend you set up a recovery suite next to the sliding glass door leading to a deck. Would you be able to have such an arrangement at your home? Put snow, dirt, or grass on the deck. Make sure there is some old pee on the top for incentive. With a sling you would then be able to walk him just a very few foot step to the "potty spot" on the deck. On the deck you will also need to set up a fence so there is not much room to walk around. The fence is key to stopping sniff fests as the dogs sees the barrier. This is how I set up my deck with snow and an ex-pen to provide a visual and physical barrier. My dog was also wobbly, so I used a sling as back up to avoid the rear from tipping over, keeping the spine straight and aligned.  If you do not have a deck off a sliding door, then consider this idea. Obtain an expen to use at potty times where you would enlarge the very small recovery suite area just a bit. Lay down a pee pad WITH the addition of urine from another dog or from Shiloh on top. Always save a used piece of pee pad in a ziplock bag to use at potty time. Shiloh can learn it is ok with you to pee on the pee pad, besure to use the command go potty and when she does give lavish praise. #3 vet sounds like he is much more knowledgeable about IVDD with his carefulness about Shiloh not doing any extra movement than possible. Do let us know the details about Pepcid AC (mgs and ?x/day) Are you giving 30 mins before Pred. Are you giving Pred with a meal? |
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Post by Sherri & Shiloh on Mar 10, 2014 11:38:19 GMT -7
Thank you. We do not have a deck. Both doors have steps but my husband built a ramp out the back door very close to grass. He carries him out there several times a day. I will try the pee pad with Shiloh's urine scent. What is an expen? He is staying very quiet in his recover suite and sleeping alot. We give him 1/2 of a Pepcid AC in the morning, which is about 10 mg. His stomach upset seems to have passed and he's not panting or breathing heavy any longer. He is resting as he should. We will give him another 1/2 Pepcid this evening prior to nitetime meds. The new vet has not suggested we take the Predisone down as of yet, but he did say once the muscle relaxers are gone (methocarbamol) he would not give him any more. We are trying to do the Tramadol only when he seems like he's hurting. He has never yelped in pain, not at any time. When my husband picks him up for potty time his tail is wagging the entire time. I think most of his "pain" was stomach upset. The Pepcid seems to be helping very much with that. We've been going almost a month and I'm hoping at the 2 week check on March 20th we get some promising news. Again, thank you so very much
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,595
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 10, 2014 11:50:37 GMT -7
Ex-pen is an 8 panel folding fence comes in varying heights. Very useful not just during a disc episode but after to block of parts of your home from Shiloh. More good reading on doing crate rest in addition to ex-pens here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm
Name of Vet Name of Clinic Street Address City: State or country: Type of vet (general/board certified surgeon, acupuncture, etc.) Comments:
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 10, 2014 16:28:26 GMT -7
Also, Sherri, if you have a metal crate, you can buy caster wheels for it. Then you could wheel Shiloh right in his crate down the ramp.
Healing prayers for Shiloh.
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