PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 11, 2014 13:15:37 GMT -7
Cal, xrays can be a very good tool when used wisely and for good reasons. Suppose a dog was struck by car, is nerve damage due to a fractured spine or a damaged disc... no way to tell without a picture to decide which treatment is necessary. Is surgery necessary then to stabilize the fractured spine or is crate rest necessary to allow the disc to heal?
I agree with Marjorie, since Boner is progressing well, the risk of xray does not seem warranted. Xray's are not without concern for an IVDD dog in the midst of a disc episode. Dr. Fingeroth, DVM, DACVS, Veterinary Specialists of Rochester, NY explained to his veterinary students about xrays to rule out other things a vet might be highly suspicious of...things that could mimic (differential diagnosis) a disc problem:
The question of whether radiographs should be taken is predicated entirely on the differential diagnosis, and whether the information derived will alter your recommendations for treatment, referral , etc. The major indication for taking spinal radiographs is when the differential diagnosis includes fracture/luxation, discospondylitis or vertebral neoplasia.
Radiographs are rarely of benefit in dogs with suspected disc disease, unless part of an imaging work-up being conducted for the direct benefit of the surgeon who intends to operate on the dog. In the case of chondrodystrophic breeds where a disc lesion is suspected there is a high probability that lesions will be seen. About 90% of dogs in these breeds have demonstrable degenerative disc lesions that may be evident on radiographs. The finding of disc calcification or even a collapsed disc space may or may not correlate with the actual site of the current compressive lesion. And even if it does, how would it benefit the attending veterinarian or client to "know", for example, that the T13-L1 disc looks "suspicious" as opposed to, say, L1-L2? There was already the suspicion for disc disease, and a high likelihood of finding a lesion, so nothing really has been gained. Moreover, obtaining good spinal radiographs that are not burdened with positioning artifacts requires anesthesia and careful technique. So, if unanesthetized radiography is used one may make the animal more uncomfortable by having to hold it in place, and the value of such films, already dubious by definition, is further degraded. And if it makes little sense to take x-rays at the outset, does it make sense to add an anesthetic (and the cost to the client) in order to pursue this form of imaging? Besides the potential for false positives (seeing lesions that are in fact red herrings), plain radiography can produce false negatives. Not every disc lesion results in obvious collapse of the disc space, or observation of mineralized material within the vertebral canal or intervertebral foramen.
Neck disc episodes can likely be identified by the dog holding the head in an unusually position, nose to the ground or head high. Does not want to chew or crunch food. May not want to bear weight on front legs, holds legs like flamingo.
Let us know if a 2nd stomach protector on top of Pepcid AC is warranted for not eating... or if your vet observes behaviors this may well be a neck disc and thus the avoiding of jaw action and the need to do those extra things Marjorie pointed you to help with cervical disc issues.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Mar 11, 2014 16:45:47 GMT -7
Boner went to the vet today for his 4th laser treatment. He has been pain free yesterday and today. The food issue is still perplexing. He has been eating plenty of food- it just had to be moist- so he never lost his appetite. I had the vet check him out and his neck seems to be fine as well as his teeth...and then when I got home from the vet I gave him some moist food and then snuck some dry food in with it and he ate it fine. I had been doing this for the past few days, but today was the first day he would eat the dry food and had no problems chewing it...maybe he was reluctant to eat the hard food while he was still having some pain...
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 12, 2014 13:26:57 GMT -7
Good news on being pain free! So just in case this may be a neck disc, I would just go ahead and do these things mentioned here as it won't hurt but would help if a neck disc: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm
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Post by Cal & Boner on Mar 14, 2014 17:47:32 GMT -7
Hi everyone, I went to the vet today to get some refills of Boner's pain meds (Tramodol, Robaxin, and Gabapentin) and I got the chance to speak with the vet for a few minutes. I mentioned to him that Boner will be done with his two weeks of Rimadyl on Tuesday. I asked him how I should go about getting Boner off the pain meds once he is through with the Rimadyl. He suggested to keep Boner on his three pain meds through Tuesday when the Rimadyl is up. Then, he said to take him off one pain med at a time rather than all at once...last year I remember that we just stopped them all at once- but last year he was on his meds for one week as opposed to two weeks this time. So, I am wondering if this is the best way to go about it. The vet said, starting Wednesday, to take him off of the Tramodol first for a couple of days, Then, if he remains pain free for those couple of days, take him off of the Gabapentin for a couple of days. If he remains pain free for those couple of days, then finally take him off of the Robaxin. This is very different from what we did last year, so I wanted to get your opinions on this method...has anyone stopped the pain meds this way, one by one...? Thanks everybody
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2014 18:13:09 GMT -7
Sounds like a plan on the backing off of pain meds. Some vets do prefer to taper off of Gabapentin and Tramadol when they have been in use for a longer period of time.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Mar 24, 2014 20:57:27 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
Boner is doing doing well. However, today while he was sleeping in his cage, one of his ears was flopped back and I noticed a brown spot. I examined his ears and swabbed out some dark brown, somewhat moist material with q-tips (I was very careful and only used them along the very outer areas of his ear. Boner had an ear infection once bfore and I recall him having this same brown material in his ear. Here is my issue in regards to his current disc episode.....I will have to take him to the vet for them to look at his ears and prescribe ear solution. Here is the problem- Boner WILL NOT let me squirt anything into his ear- swabbing he is ok with, but last time he had an ear infection I was unable to get near him with the bottle of ear solution without him trying to take my hand off- we tried muzzles, we tried waiting until he was asleep and sneaking it in- neither of those worked very well and they are not even an option now because of his current back situation. With the muzzle, he fought and jumped and squirmed.....and when we were able to sneak some in his ear while he was sleeping, he always jumped up very quickly, which I can't risk now. So, when this happened last time, I was forced to take him to the vet office every day for one week so that they could rinse his ear out and put in solution. My concerns are: 1.) I am going to have to take him in every day to the vet again for this- which means transporting him in the car alot - which can't be good for his back, even in his car cage.
2.) When I take him to the vet for them to put the solution in, I will obviously insist that I stay to make sure he is held properly and does not jump- but even with me watching, I know he will jump/squirm violently from whoever is putting the stuff in his ear (I can't emphasize enough how aggressive he gets when someone tries to squirt anything in his ears) So this is obviously a concern in terms of his back recovery.
3.) I was wondering if any of the meds he was on for two weeks could have contributed to him getting an ear infection...or is this just a huge coincidence that it is happening at the same time as his disc episode? I have been very diligent about keeping his cage clean and bedding washed.
Does anyone have any advice on this- have any of you had separate issues like this occur while your dog was being crated...any advice...? I'm so worried...again...please help- Thank you
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 24, 2014 21:31:31 GMT -7
Hi Cal,
I would call and discuss with the Vet about the ear infection and ask about treating him with an oral medication instead so movement can be kept to the minimum..
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Mar 25, 2014 9:17:24 GMT -7
Hi Cal, Are his ears itchy or painful? Do his ears smell yeasty? That is one of the most common ear infections and it has a definite odour to it. Some Vets can do a microscopic examination of the material that you swabbed out of his ear and see the offending organism - it's worth asking them Hope that he just has a bit of dirt accumulating and no infection. Feel better Boner!
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Post by Cal & Boner on Mar 25, 2014 15:37:46 GMT -7
Hi all, Yes, unfortunately, Boner has an ear infection - bad timing with him being on crate rest! But, on the positive side, I am not going to have to take him in every day to have solution put in his ears. Apparently, since the last time he had an ear infection a few years ago, they have come up with something called " Oti-pack" that is a vaseline-type substance put in his ears and remains in for one week. The vet said it contains a STEIROID. My first question was if it was ok to give him this being that he ended Rimadyl one week ago today. He said that since it is a topical steiroid, I didn't need to worry about the interaction- and plus, he has been off of Rimadyl for one week. Does that sound correct? The reason I ask is because I always like to double-check with all of you now about ANY meds- ever since last year when one of the vet techs gave him the steiroid/Previcox combo. Have any of you had experience with this "Oti-pack?" Boner will return to the vet next week to have the oti-pack removed. Do any of you have any opinion on whether or not this is all just a huge coincidence- him getting an ear infection right after ending all of his meds...I'm trying to figure out what could have caused this at the same time as a disc episode- he hasn't been exposed to anything for the past 3 weeks because he has been on cage rest. Like I said, I keep all of his bedding clean, though sometimes he pushes his blanket into his water dish in the cage....so that could be a source for moisture- but I always take it out ASAP and wash it whenever he does this.... Thanks again everyone
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 25, 2014 16:49:17 GMT -7
Hope Boner's infection heals quickly and that he feels good.
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Mar 26, 2014 10:11:32 GMT -7
The topical steroid shouldn't be a problem at all. The vet that I worked for used to do something like this Oti-pack, before it was even marketed. It worked really well with dogs that hate having their ears messed with. Ear infections happen no matter how careful we try to be, one of the joys of floppy eared dogs Feel better soon Boner
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 26, 2014 12:26:18 GMT -7
Cal, I agree with StevieLuv that the topical steroid should be ok now that 7 days of washout from Rimadyl has taken place.
The ear skin flap is a is becoming more in use for dosing pain meds for example because the meds will enter the blood system relatively quickly and easier for some dogs than trying to get a pill down.
So keep in mind that topical corticosteroids or topical NSAIDs can be absorbed from the skin. I would have a real concern about using a NSAID at the same time as a steroid no matter the way it is delivered... by pill, by shot, or by transdermal gel or other skin preparation.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 14, 2014 2:26:53 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
Boner has a few weeks of cage rest left, but for the past few nights he has started doing something that he has never done before- even last year during his first dsic episode. I have always kept his cage by my bed at night when I sleep and he has been fine. However, for the past few nights as soon as I move the cage by my bed and get into bed he starts barking non-stop and gets VERY aggressive. I have tried everything I can think of to keep him from doing this- adjusting the times when I move him, moving the cage to different locations, sitting with him with the lights on for a while (this only makes him more aggressive it seems). I even left the cage door open one time and put his dog bed right in front of the cage and then blocked the edges of the dog bed- thinking that he would feel less trapped- but he still just sat in the cage and barked non-stop. The last few nights I have had to move him out of my room and into the den because the barking is so loud and non-stop for atleast 30 minutes. And another problem is I know he must get thirsty from doing this, but I can not leave his attachable water dish in the cage with him at night because he immediately takes his blanket/towel and dunks it into the water dish and it absorbs it all. I don't understand why he has suddenly developed this habit at night...any suggestions? I would hate to have to put him on medication for this but do you think that is the best option at this point? I thought after a few nights of putting him in the den and just waiting out the barking that he would learn that barking is not going to get me to come let him out- but that plan doesn't seem to be working and he still has a few weeks left...any suggestions...? Thank you all so much.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 14, 2014 4:54:00 GMT -7
Possibly some of these ideas will help, Cal. If not, he may need something prescribed by the vet to calm him. As for why this is happening just when you go to bed, is he used to sleeping with you when he's not on crate rest and wants that back? He doesn't have to go outside to do his business? Could he be looking for attention and doesn't want you to go to sleep and not be giving him the attention he wants? Cover the top of the crate with a towel. That creates a den like feeling that dogs love. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. More ideas here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm
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