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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 11, 2013 12:18:45 GMT -7
Hello,
I am so happy to find a place like this to get help from those of you that have gone through problems with your dachshund's back - so thank you so much in advance for any feedback/help you can give me. Bare with me in the following lengthy explanation. I have a mini-dachshund (14.5 pounds) and he had to be taken to the vet 5 days ago for back pain. After X-rays, we found out he has a calcified disc in the lower end of his spine. My vet gave him an anti-inflammatory injection steroid in the office and then prescribed me 3 medications along with strict rest: Previcox, Robaxin, and Famotidine. After two days of Previcox he began to have dark black diarrhea. I called the vet and he told me to stop the Previcox and see if the pain returned. After 1 day, it did return- and of course it started up in the evening when I could not take him to the vet. So, I made the decision to give him 1/4 of a tablet of Previcox just to get him through the night. The next morning, I called the vet to let him know that the pain had returned and he decided to put him on Tramadol (25mg twice a day). I began giving that to him yesterday at 5:00 PM. He seemed OK for a while, but around 10:30 PM he began showing pain again (shaking/shivering) and I was up with him all night as he could not sleep- moving around all night unable to get comfortable and his breathing seemed shallow. So, at 5:00 AM I gave him his next dose of the Tramadol and called the vet later in the morning. He said to first try increasing the Tramadol to 3 times a day instead of 2 (so every 8 hours). He then said if this does not work, he would like to try putting him on Rimadyl, another NSAID instead of Previcox. Here is my concern- I have been reading as much as I can about the dangers of NSAIDS for dogs- and am now SCARED TO DEATH to put him on another NSAID- especially since he had a reaction to the first one, Previcox. I am hoping that increasing the Tramadol will help him- But, if not, I am completely at a loss as to what I should do and would really appreciate any advice. How important is it to get him back on a NSAID- and can he heal without it? If I do need to put him back on a NSAID (Rimadyl) is he likely to have the same GI problems again? I have read so many terrible stories about these drugs and am very concerned. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated-Thank you.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2013 13:12:56 GMT -7
Cal, welcome to Dodgerslist. What's your doxie's name? Kudos to you Cal for reading and know the dangers of his meds. Switching among the same class of anti-inflammatories (Previcox and Rimadyl are both NSAIDS) OR switching to the other class, steroids, requires a washout from the body of 4-5 days. Since he his pain is not under control the better approach than switching is to discuss with your vet is to get pain under control by being more aggressive with pain meds. Many vets are finding very good pain control success by using gabapentin along with methocarbamol and tramadol. Also Tramadol dose of 25mg can be upped to 50mg 3x a day. Pepcid AC works to protect for most dogs, when it does not, then it is time to quickly get sulcralfate on board. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm and is where I look up all my dog's meds to act as protector and double checker for adverse side effects. Sulcralfate has a timing as to when it should be given...so do read up on that. You are right there are no safe medicines... the safety comes with a vet who uses them in a safe manner and an owner who is educated on each med to monitor. How is the diarahea today? What as the exact name of the anti-inflammaotry injection given in the office? Are you doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks? 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. This overview will be very helpful in getting up to speed on the overall picture of the disease you are dealing with, the meds and the treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 11, 2013 13:41:46 GMT -7
Hi Paula Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. My doxie's name is Boner I have realized as of today how truly important the STRICT rest is. I was allowing him to walk around a little but am now keeping him confined with baby gates so he does not feel isolated. I am a little worried about how he is going to do not sleeping in bed with me- as he has done that his whole life- tonight will be the first night. As far as the medications- I am not sure of the exact type of injection that they gave him at the vet- but I do recall them saying that it was a steiroid injection. So, as I have been learning about these meds- I have become a little concerned that the vet prescribed me Previcox because I read they should not be on a steiroid injection and a NSAID at same time... and I have a very good vet team which made me a little more concerned. Since giving him his second does of Tramadol today, he is resting better, but still shaking from time to time with shallow breathing. You mentioned that I could possibly up his Tramadol to 50mg 3X a day instead of his current 25mg 3X a day. He is only 14.5 lbs- would 50mg 3X a day be harmful to him? I remember reading that Tramadol can be very dangerous if given too much (I know I must sound super paranoid, but I am just so worried about him). He is no longer having diarrhea since he stopped the Previcox- and he just finished a prescription of Pro-Pectilin which they gave him to clear it up. So, if he continues to shake tonight, I am going to call my vet again tomorrow. I know he is going to suggest again that I put him on the Rimadyl. If I decide to hold off on that- will that deter his healing process? In other words, can he heal OK by only controlling the pain with Tramadol and without a drug for inflammation (NSAID)? Or is it worth the risk to atleast try putting him on the new NSAID (Rimadyl) in a few days? Thank you again Paula- and to anyone else who may reply.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 11, 2013 21:15:58 GMT -7
Cal, Hope you got Boner settled in his crate for a good night sleep.. It might help to put his crate or ex pen in the bedroom with you, so at least he has your company since he is used to sleeping with you..
You mentioned that he is shaking and has shallow breathing. be sure to let your vet know that so he can adjust his pain medications so that he is pain free dose to dose.. Glad the Vet increased the Tramadol to 3 times a day that should help.. Gabapentin, as Paula mentioned works very well with Tramadol. It makes Tramadol work even better It takes time to find the right medication combination that is effective.. as every dog is an individual.
Don't blame you for being concerned about the steroid injection and then having the Previcox prescribed.. That could be the reason for the dark black diarrhea and not just the Previcox by itself.. My thought is he needs to have something that will ease the inflammation that comes with IVDD.. Best to discuss with your vet what he thinks will work best.. Once the pain and inflammation is under control, healing can begin. Glad he is taking something to protect his stomach.. He may need Famotidine and Sucralfate to protect his tummy if he goes back on a NSAID..
Sending healing wishes..
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 11, 2013 21:27:04 GMT -7
Cal, your vet put Boner in a life threatening situation with the use of a steroid injection and following up with a NSAID, Previcox. I hope you are wrong and misheard it was a steroid injection. Please find out the exact name of the steroid injection as you should be aware of everything that goes into your dog's body. It is extremely clear, this vet does not feel comfortable in treating this disease if it was a steroid injection and his less than aggressiveness to get pain under control. This means two things...either you stay with the vet and YOU must become a mini-expert on all things IVDD and question everything, doublecheck everything or you move on and hire a vet who does know this disease. What city/state do you live in? It makes all the difference in the world when you find your IVDD knowledgeable vet. Most DVMs in a general practice see many different species- hampsters, cats, all breeds of dogs, reptiles, birds, maybe even farm animals. They practice many specialties in the course of a day: pediatrics, dentistry, surgery, internal medicine. Is it surprising, that keeping current and indepth knowledge of each and every disease for every species is probably not likely? Heck even our own doctors don't know every malady...so we do not hesitate to get 2nd opinions all the time.... there is no difference with vets. How to find an IVDD vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmLet us know the size of the recovery suite is only enough to stand up, turn around and when lying down fully stretch out the legs. A baby gate is likely not going to do the job, as even a bathroom is too large a recovery suite. At night put his wire crate on top of a sturdy bedside table where you can touch him through the wires and he can see you. Here is why you use an anti-inflammatory (either a steroid or a NSAID but never both together unless there is a real emergency that warrants taking a risk.) Sometimes vets start with NSAIDs and over the course of days they see neuro functions deteriorate and thus in an effort to preserve the spinal cord, the hard decision is made to switch to the most powerful of the two classes of anti-inflammatories... a steroid. Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the taper the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain. Swelling = pain = the need to stay on an anti-inflammatory. Number one outside of doing STRICT crate rest is getting pain under control fully dose to dose ASAP. Pain will hinder the healing process. 1. Tomorrow either get a new IVDD knowledgeable vet or strongly advocate for aggressive pain control. Tramadol could be upped to 50mg every 8 hours, advocate for it. Gabapentin can be added to Tramadol and the Robaxin So your current vet has not even used all his options for getting pain under control. 2. Boner needs an anti-inflammatory that is what works on getting swelling down. You last gave Previcox on 4/9?? So this is the problem now.. that you should wait 4-7 days to let Previcox washout before going to Rimadyl or to use a steroid. 3. Black diarrhea was blood, digested blood from the stomach from bleeding. Make sure you are giving 5mg famotidine every 12 hours. Then get an Rx for sucralfate. This med works in a different way than famotidine to bandage the damaged areas of the stomach's mucous lining. As usual do your homework on meds. www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlWhen you can please update us all all his current meds, the dose in mg, and how often you are to give them. Let us know about his pain.. there should be no shaking dose to dose of the pain meds when they are properly prescribed. What about his neuro functions... does he wobbly walk, knuckle his paws, drag his legs? Tramadol can cause panting. You may place a fan near his recovery suite, but not pointed at him to help. There are several pieces to the puzzle on just how the meds work, etc. I really highly recommend you re-read as many times as necessary the overview page... it is all laid out for you to help you understand more than I can ever write in this post. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmWe will be watching for your update in the morning.... hang in there you will get things right for Boner and the rest of recovery will then be a lot smoother.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 11, 2013 23:19:16 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thank you again for all of the information. If I do find out that it was indeed a steiroid injection that was given on 4/6- will it be safe to get on the Rimadyl in a few days? I know the washout period is 4-7 days for switching NSAIDs, but how long after a steiroid injection do you have to wait before the NSAID? Should I perhaps consider putting him back on the Previcox rather than the Rimadyl as the bloody diarrhea may have been from the injection/Previcox combo and not the Previcox alone...
I am also hoping that I heard wrong- on the receipt it just says "anti-inflammatory injection 0-20#" Is he still in a life-threatening position now that he has been off of the Previcox?
Also, should I wait the full 7 days from the last dose of Previcox before beginning a NSAID again?
Lastly, should he continue to stay on Robaxin as well?
My father is having surgery today (Friday) - so I will be on the phone with my vet from the hospital- I have a list of questions for him- but I wanted to get your take as well. Thank you so much for your help - I feel very fortunate to have found this site.
Oh, and I live in Panama City, Florida- I will let you know the details of Boner's situation tomorrow as soon as I can. Thank you again.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 12, 2013 6:54:03 GMT -7
Hi Cal, my name is Lisa. Just chiming in here. The "anti-inflammatory injection" could have been either a steroid or an NSAID, as both are anti-inflammatory medications. Check with your vet to see exactly what was given. Here is some info on wash-out periods when switching drugs: "Drugs of the NSAID class should not be used concurrently as the potential for the aforementioned side effects increases. For similar reasons, NSAIDS should not be used in conjunction with corticosteroid hormones such as prednisone, dexamethasone, etc. Pfizer recommends a 5 to 7 day rest period when changing from one NSAID to another. Aspirin poses an exception due to its strong platelet inactivating abilities so 10 to 14 days is recommended when switching to another veterinary NSAID from aspirin. Allow at least one week between prednisone and meloxicam." www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1752Personally, I prefer steroids such as prednisone for an anti-inflammatory because I believe they are stronger than NSAIDs. There is some controversy in the veterinary world about the use of steroids. Some go to it first for an anti-inflammatory and others will not use them at all. I don't blame you for being leery of putting your dog on Rimadyl, as I believe there have been many class-action suits regarding its side effects. If Boner goes on either a steroid or NSAID again, please be sure to get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 minutes before each dose of steroid or NSAID to protect the tummy, especially since Boner already had a stomach reaction to the Previcox. You should also ask for Sucralfate to coat the stomach, as Pepcid AC works to reduce the excess acid produced by the steroid or NSAID. Robaxin is a very effective muscle relaxant, so if Boner is in pain, I would keep giving it as prescribed by your vet. Tramadol is a good opiate-like pain reliever which is the most usual drug we see prescribed for pain. Please keep us updated on how Boner is doing. Best of luck to your father with his surgery. ~Lisa
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 12, 2013 19:56:29 GMT -7
Hi again,
Well, after a long day, I think Boner is doing better. I was able to take him to the vet and he began laser therapy which will be for 3 days. He did begin shakng and having pain earlier tonight and it subsided. I was told that results from the laser therapy may not be seen until after the second treatment.
He is still on the Tramadol tonight, but he is going to begin Rimadyl (which I am still nervous about) tomorrow. I was told to see if the Rimadyl will control his pain before I see if I need to add back in the Tramadol. He is still on Famotidine and will continue that as well. I also got the scrip for Sucralfate which I was told to give every 8 hours and 1 hour after any other meds so that it does not interfere with absorption.
He has been taken off Robaxin unless I see him arching/tightening up- and after the episode earlier, I think I should give it to him tonight. My vet has ordered a new pain med for him that needs to be compounded into a powder. This will not be shipped to me until the beginning of next week- so we are hoping the Rimadyl will control his pain until then. The Previcox did when he was on that- so I am hoping for the Rimadyl to do so as well.
A few questions 1.) Has anyone had experience with the laser therapy that you could share with me- I have read up on it a bit today and it seems like a very safe and effective way at targeting inflammation- which is Boner's main problem right now. 2.) Also, has anyone had experience switching NSAIDS- I am worried he will have the same problems as he did with the Previcox. I know every dog is different but is there a good chance he will be able to tolerate this one better? 3.) Is it a good idea to administer the Rimadyl with a meal? I want to do whatever I can to prevent him from having the same GI problems. 4.) I am going to get him a harness leash tomorrow from the pet store- any suggestions? I've noticed when I take him to the bathroom, it is hard to keep him in one area when he is not leashed- and his regular leash will pull on him too much. 5.) Lastly, should I be worried that even after the 1st laser treatment, he has still had pain this eveing?
Thank you again to all of you for taking the time to discuss this with me- it has definitely helped in bringing me some peace of mind.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Apr 12, 2013 20:22:56 GMT -7
I know that on Hitch's bottle of Rimadyl it said to give with food. Good luck!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 12, 2013 21:24:06 GMT -7
Cal, dogs by instinct want to avoid showing any pain...as that shows others they are weak and they may be attacked. So when a dog shows you pain, it IS a very painful thing. A disc episode is extremely painful. I'm sorry that Boner is being allowed to experience pain when there are plenty of options to control his pain but are not being offered.. Pain control dose to dose of pain meds is #1. Believe me if this were your pain you'd be on the phone speaking up very loudly. Boner only has you to advocate for him. Once pain surfaces it is much harder to get back under control. With disc disease, waiting til you see pain to give meds is not a good idea. The better approach is to give aggressive pain meds on time punctually to avoid any pain surfacing. This vet explains pain very nicely " When pain relievers must be given after an injury has occurred it sometimes takes much higher doses to tamp down the pain and get it under control. It is good to keep this in mind, because many people make the mistake of using low doses of pain reliever initially, hoping they will work. It is probably better to start with high doses and then to cut the dosage if it becomes apparent that lower dosages will work.
Another way of thinking about it [pain] is like a seesaw. You can put a rock on the high end of seesaw and it might not cause it to go down. If you add a second rock that might not move it, either. But eventually you will reach the point where the weight on the upper end suddenly causes the high end of the seesaw to fall. This is how pain threshold works. You really don't feel pain even though something has the potential to cause it until there is enough "weight" to tip over the pain threshold -- then you feel it suddenly.www.vetinfo.com/dpain.htmlRobaxin deals with the type of pain so often associated with a disc episode....the pain that comes with muscle pain. Tramadol is a general pain reliever. It is often not effective in pain relieve unless given every 8 hours and at the right dose in mg. Rimadyl is not a pain reliever, its job is to reduce inflamamation that can take 1-2 weeks or longer to get swelling down. Rimadyl is of the class of lesser anti-inflammatories, a NSAID.... non-steroid anti-inflammatory drug. Laser therapy can be complimentary in helping to get swelling down and help with pain, but it does not take the place of the heavy duty pain relievers needed with a disc episode (tramadol, robaxin, gabapentin) There is more to timing of sucralfate than what you have written that needs to be worked into your schedule.. Please do read the MarVista Vet information and work out a schedule based on your family's activities. Then we'd be able to look it over offer helpful comments to work with your family's lifestyle. Here's the Marvista link: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlDid you find out the name of the injection given? If it was a steroid, then you know why Boner had GI tract problems. It is important to know what caused the GI upset to answer your question. Vets who practice safe medicine look for a 4-7 days washout when switching: NSAID <--> NSAID or Steroid <--> NSAID " Only one brand of NSAID should be administered to a dog at any given time. If at some time the owner and the veterinarian decide to try a different NSAID, a wash-out period is recommended. A wash-out period is a few days long, during which the dog does not receive any NSAID. Then the dog can be switched to another NSAID. NSAIDs should not be combined with the use of a corticosteroid, either."What Veterinarians Should Tell Clients About Pain Control and Their Pets . Michele Sharkey, DVM, Office of New Animal Drug Evaluation; Margarita Brown, DVM, Office of Surveillance and Compliance; and Linda Wilmot, DVM, Office of New Animal Drug Evaluation.– FDA Veterinarian Newsletter, 2006, Vol. XXI, No. I www.fda.gov/cvm/FdaVetFirst2006.htm#6059From the Rimadyl web page: "As with other NSAID-class medications, signs of RIMADYL intolerance may include appetite loss, vomiting and diarrhea, which could indicate side effects involving the digestive tract, liver or kidneys. Some of these side effects may occur without warning and, in rare situations may be serious, resulting in hospitalization or even death. If these signs occur, discontinue RIMADYL therapy and consult your veterinarian." www.rimadyl.com/default.aspxWhen you can do let us know the details on his current meds...the dose in mg, how often you are supposed to give them. I know you have a lot on your plate right now, hope your father's surgery went well. Kudos to you for getting sucralfate on board!! Now your goal is to get the vet on board about being aggressive with pain control so Boner can get on with the business of healing.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 13, 2013 21:49:31 GMT -7
Hi all, Boner was finally able to sleep through the night last night and has been pain free today. He began Rimadyl today and went in for his second laser therapy at 3:00 this afternoon. His third round is tomorrow morning.
I made the decision to leave him on both the Robaxin and Tramadol. As I mentioned, his Gabapentin has to be compounded so it will be the correct dosage- it will be ready on Mon/Tue. If he remains pain free until then, is there a need to add this medication?
Here is a list of his current meds: ( I am feeding him between 4-8 PM as to not interfere with the Sucralfate - but am giving small treats throughout the day) 6:15 AM- Sucralfate - 1/2 tablet 1 gram 11:00 AM- Tramadol - 1/2 tablet 50mg 11:30 AM - Robaxin - 1/4 tablet 500mg Famotidine - 1/2 tablet 10mg 12:00 PM- Rimadyl - 1 tablet 25mg 2:15 PM - Sucralfate - 1/2 tablet 1 gram 7:00 PM - Tramadol - 1/2 tablet 50mg 10:15 PM - Sucralfate - 1/2 tablet 1 gram 12:15 AM- Robaxin - 1/4 tablet 500mg Famotidine - 1/2 tablet 10mg 1:00 AM - Tramadol - 1/2 tablet 50 mg The Tramadol does seem to cause a lot of panting and I do have a small fan for him. However, today at the vet, he weighed 12.9 lbs- last Saturday he weighed 14.8. He has been eating regularly and his appetite has never decreased. I am wondering if this is water weight he has lost. His entire life I have been very diligent about making sure he drinks plenty of water. Along with his regular food and water that is always out for him, every day for many years I have been giving him a handful of dry dog food mixed with a bottle of water and giving that to him in parts throughout the day to make sure he stays hydrated. So he is getting plenty of water, but maybe the panting and stress over the past week has caused the weight loss...any feedback on this?
Thank you again for all of the thoughtful responses.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 14, 2013 6:14:16 GMT -7
Hi Cal, I am not sure what to say about the weight loss. Was he weighed on the same scale each time? It possibly could be loss of muscle tone due to being crate rested. However, if this is the case, remember that muscle tone can be regained after crate rest. The important thing now is to minimize his movements at all costs so that his disc can heal. With your vet's permission, you can gently massage his legs to help keep him limber. The text in PINK in this link on passive massage/exercises can be discussed with your vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm Regarding the gabapentin, if he is not having any breakthrough pain, then I wouldn't want to add a medication that is unnecessary. Why don't you ask your vet whether you can give the gabapentin on an as-needed basis in case there is breakthrough pain? Panting is a side effect of Tramadol. Be sure the fan is NOT directly hitting Boner - an oscillating fan is best. Glad to hear you're getting him laser therapy. Acupuncture is also excellent. We look forward to hearing how Boner does throughout crate rest. Best wishes, ~Lisa
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 14, 2013 10:20:48 GMT -7
Cal, good med schedule. So relieved to hear pain is fully under control!!!!
What did the vet say about the weight loss? Had the scale been recently re-calibrated?
I agree with Natureluva, if Robaxin and Tramadol can control pain fully dose to dose, then there would not be a reason to add in Gabapentin. Having Gabapentin on hand would be good, so that if you see pain is not being controlled, you are at the ready to incorporate Gabapentin into the schedule.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 14, 2013 11:19:10 GMT -7
Hi Paula and Lisa, The vet tech was there today to do his laser therapy and believed the weight loss was probably due to his panting so much and burning more calories than usual. Are there any healthy feeding suggestions to keep a dog's weight up- other than just feeding him more of his regular food... Thank you both again for all of your help these past few days - Boner and I appreciate it so much
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 16, 2013 22:16:44 GMT -7
Hi everybody,
Boner is doing good. However, I do think he has had some breakthrough pain, because yesterday, out of nowhere, he yelped while in his recovery suite. His Gabapentin will be here tomorrow morning via Fed Ex. I spoke with my vet about whether or not to add the Gabapentin to his current medicine schedule and he recommended stopping the Tramadol and replacing it with Gabapentin. His reasoning for this was that although Tramadol is not a narcotic, it does act in the same way as a narcotic- and that Gabapentin is not to be used with narcotics. So, to be on the safe side, he suggested only using the Gabapentin. Any thoughts on this? By the way, Boner has been prescribed 35 mg chews of Gabapentin- not sure until I see the instructions tomorrow if I will be halving it or not, but is this a typical dosage for a mini-dachshund his size? Also, I read that stopping Tramadol suddenly can be dangerous- Boner has been on it for almost 1 week. I also read that stopping Gabapentin suddenly is dangerous as well and it should be slowly tapered off.
A couple of other things (which may be silly questions): Is it OK to give Boner his monthly Trifexis and his Advantix II topical medication while he is on all of these other meds? Also, I know I am not supposed to bathe him. He has always been very well behaved when being bathed. If I can keep him very still and gently bathe and blowdry him, is this OK? If not, should I be concerned about him developing skin conditions over the remainder of his strict rest time? Any suggestions on this would be appreciated. Thanks again.
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Post by Sherry Layman on Apr 17, 2013 11:04:04 GMT -7
Cal, neither Gabapentin or Tramadol should be discontinued abruptly after long term use. Boner has not been on either long enough to be considered long term. You could stop either with no detrimental effects.
As for his yelp in his recovery suite it's hard to determine the precise cause from one episode. Heck, I have a dog that occasionaly lets out a squeal from under the blanket on the couch, she has her dew claws and my suspicion is that she may get one caught now and then but I have no proof. Obviously during a disc episode and forever more after we attribute every yelp, shiver, painful look and "slow day" to their back. It's never bad to be wary but we must also realize they have an entire body and we must look at them in this light. If there is no more yelping or no other symptoms I'd let it go. If you continue to see signs of breakthrough pain then it's time to pursue it.
As for Boner's other medications and mixing them with his new regime you should contact your vet. Likely there are no complications but none of us are qualified to say for sure and we certainly wouldn't want to cause Boner trouble by uneducated guesses.
No baths during recovery from a disc episode. Better a dirty dog than a dog that could have fully recovered but ends up paralyzed because he took a bath. He may be generally very well behaved, this WILL be the time he decides to make a quick jump. Actually Dachshunds can tend towards dry skin and don't generally require bathing unless they've gotten into something...which they certainly are prone to doing. I can't remember the last time either of mine got a real bath, I keep some of the bath wipes on hand but neither has had a bath in a very long time and we have no skin issues. It's more us humans that think our dogs must smell perfumy than the fact that this breed requires bathing.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 17, 2013 12:19:50 GMT -7
Hi Sherry, Thank you so much for your feedback. You are right- I find myself panicking now at the smallest things he does. His Gabapentin came in this morning, but I have not started him on it because he seems to not be in any pain. He does very well in his recovery crate at night, however, I have noticed in the daytime he pants and breathes quickly much of the time. I am assuming this is more from his being anxious about being confined in the crate rather than being in pain. But, I can' be 100% sure, so I am debating back and forth as to whether or not I should start him on the Gabapentin. I certainly do not want to over-medicate him. Also, he has 2 days of Rimadyl left (he had a 7 day dose). I read on Julie's post about Hank that you suggested to quit the muscle relaxant a couple of days before the Rimadyl to see if pain returns. Boner has been on Robaxin for almost two weeks- should I consider taking him off of this for his last two days of Rimadyl?
Thank you for your feedback on the bathing issue as well- I will definitely hold off on that. I am just used to bathing him each month right before I put his Advantix II on. Thanks again- I am so grateful for the help.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 17, 2013 12:58:31 GMT -7
Cal temporary side effect of Tramadol can be panting. Try a fan near the crate but not pointed at Boner.... the slight circulation of air can help with the panting.
Again when we observe for pain, we are looking to see if there is other evidence to confirm pain. Is there any yelping after movement? Any shivering/trembling especially nearing the next dose of pain meds.
The only way to know if all the swelling in the spinal cord is gone is to go off the anti-inflammatory. Since pain meds provide comfort from pain, it is usual for vets to also go off pain meds to have a very clear picture of swelling. If pain arises, then you know with certainty that a longer time on the anti-inflammatory is needed and of course to be back on pain meds and the stomach protector. So be very watchful on the day you stop Rimadyl and communicate with the vet if you are seeing pain.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 18, 2013 14:39:55 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Boner is going to have his last day of Rimadyl tomorrow (Friday). His Tramadol will be stopped beginning Saturday. So Saturday is the first day I will be looking to see if the pain flares up again. However, I do have 5 days of the Robaxin medication left. Is it a good idea to continue him on this muscle relaxer or also stop it to get a better picture of the pain? He also has enough Sucralfate through next Monday (4 days) and Famotidine through next Thursday (7 days). Should he continue taking these until gone or are they usually stopped at the same time as the Rimadyl... I wasn't sure if they might add some further protection even after the Rimadyl is stopped.... Thank you
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 18, 2013 17:37:01 GMT -7
Hi Cal!
The Pepcid AC and sucralfate are to protect the stomach from the Rimadyl so they can be stopped at the same time as you stop Rimadyl. Also the muscle relaxer can be stopped. It's important to ask your vet what he thinks first about exactly which drugs he wants you to stop. If you see signs of pain it means he needs more time on the medications so keep the vet aware of how he reacts!
Fingers crossed!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using proboards
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 20, 2013 13:24:30 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
Today is Boner's first day off of all of his meds and so far he seems to be pain free. However, I have noticed that he has been drinking A LOT of water all day...could this be an indication of anything? It has me a little concerned.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 29, 2013 20:48:39 GMT -7
Hi everybody,
I ended up taking Boner to the vet about a week ago to have his kidney function checked (mostly for my own peace of mind as he had just gotten off of the Rimadyl). His results were fine, thank goodness. I was wondering if the laser therapy is ever used as a preventative measure to keep disc problems from recurring. One of the techs mentioned that some dogs come in for it monthly, but I wasn't sure if he meant because they were still in pain, or if it was a way of warding off flare-ups...I know the laser therapy speeds up the healing process, but does anyone have any feedback or experience in regards to it being used in a preventative way? I'd obviously like to do anything I can in terms of prevention.
Thanks everyone.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 30, 2013 10:38:28 GMT -7
Hi Cal! I am so glad Boner is doing so well in his recovery. Good for you, taking such good care of him! Laser Light therapy: "Clinicians at UF's Small Animal Hospital began using the procedure routinely after results from a year-long study showed the laser's effectiveness in patients with intervertebral disc disease... The study is the first ever to compare dogs with intervertebral disc disease treated postoperatively with lasers to dogs not treated with lasers, Schubert said. He called the results "revolutionary." veterinarypage.vetmed.ufl.edu/2011/09/19/laser-treatment-helps-dogs-with-spinal-cord-injury/ [UF 1 yr study] or tinyurl.com/78eh4ew============== Laser Light "It’s worth emphasizing that laser therapy does not just accelerate healing; it actually improves repair, regeneration and remodeling of tissue. Post-op complications are reduced. Muscle atrophy can be reversed. Type 1 collagen production yields better tendon and ligament strength and elasticity. There is a positive effect on neurologic function and axonal sprouting. The joint capsule, synovial lining and fluid, and cartilage all benefit. Therefore range of motion, function, flexibility and mobility are all enhanced." www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-education-series/therapy-lasers-too-good-to-be-true.aspx OR snipurl.com/1y20q7 [therapy lasers]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 30, 2013 10:53:57 GMT -7
There is no cure or preventative for another disc prematurely aging with a dog born with IVDD. When the disc looses flexiblity, it no longer can cushion the vertebrae and bounce back into shape, but instead develops cracks/tears as the back moves. We can do things we believe might extend the time of another disc problem happening, such as using ramps, keeping their core muscles strong by building up to nice long and quick paced walks. The way we live with this disease is to be able to quickly identify when our dogs show any sign of pain, crate them to protect the spinal cord and get to a vet for help. As Pauliana pointed out laser light therapy is very good for helping to speed healing many parts of the body when that type of therapy is required. Since nerves can take months to heal, that may be one of the reasons laser therapy would be used long after crate rest is over.
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Post by Cal & Boner on Apr 30, 2013 15:11:55 GMT -7
Thanks Paula and Pauliana- Boner did have three days of the laser therapy a few weeks ago when this all started. I was just wondering if there would be an advantage to having him get another round of the laser therapy, even though he has been out of pain since stopping his medications...I thought it might aid in his recovery while he is being crated for several more weeks. Thanks again.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 30, 2013 15:45:28 GMT -7
Laser therapy can help with pain…but you say he has none. Laser therapy also helps to kick start nerves to regenerate and have neuro functions return. Does Boner have any loss of neuro functions….wobbly walk, scuffs nails, can't place his paw correctly, etc.?
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Post by Cal & Boner on May 1, 2013 12:07:19 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Thanks for getting back to me. No, he is not having any of those problems- and he is out of pain. What I am trying to decide is if another round of laser therapy might help him in terms of healing the disc or if another round of it would be pointless since he is out of pain...
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on May 4, 2013 10:44:52 GMT -7
Laser works by increasing the blood flow to the affected areas to facilitate healing. We still went every 2 weeks when Stevie was finished her crate rest the first time, and are now going twice a week for 2 weeks then one a week until this round of cage rest is over. She has 8 bad discs poor girlie- so don't think that her relapse means that laser doesn't help, it really does, so does accupuncture if that is an option. Keeping you in thought and prayer.
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Post by Cal & Boner on May 4, 2013 12:13:25 GMT -7
Hi Stevieluv, Thank you so much for your feedback and well wishes. So it sounds like laser therapy is still a good thing to do even after the dog is out of pain? I think the 3-day round that Boner had helped him a lot when he was in pain -now that he is out of pain, I figured another round of it might help him even more in terms of healing the disc... Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers and same to you and little Stevie- she is adorable
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Post by Cal & Boner on Jun 2, 2013 14:14:06 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
Boner has a couple of weeks left of his crate rest and I am getting a bit anxious about it ending. As bad as I felt about crating him for 2 months, I am now certain I am going to be extremely paranoid about letting him walk around freely. I have made preparations to keep him from jumping on couches/chairs but am just concerned in general about him walking around freely and possibly re-tweeking his back. I have a few questions about when his crate rest is over:
1.) For the first few weeks after crate rest is it a good idea to keep him pinned in a confined area as a gradual way out of crate rest or can he immediately have free run of the house... 2.) Can I immediately begin taking him on walks again, or should this be put off for a while?
3.) This is one of my main concerns- Boner has slept with me his entire life on the bed (except while being crated) Now that he will be off crate rest, I am a little concerned about letting him sleep with me. He has always stayed on the bed all night without jumping off. However, I know it would only take one jump to re-injure his back. Any suggestions...
4.) He is due to go to the vet for some yearly shots soon. Would it be a good idea to get him another round of laser therapy when his crate rest ends?
5.) Lastly, I have read that supplements to help his back work and also that they do not work.....any feedback on this...
Any feedback would help-and thank you to everyone for all of the advice over the past couple of months. I don't know what I would have done without this site.
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