renea
New Member
Posts: 3 
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Post by renea on Mar 24, 2013 15:30:19 GMT -7
Hello, I have a seven year old Chihuahua/Corgi mix, Kilo, that was diagnosed with IVDD in October 2011. This is when he had his first episode - I woke up one morning and he was unable to walk. He had surgery at that time to repair a slip disc. Since that time he has been okay, until last Friday. I came home from work and I could immediately tell something was wrong. He did not get out of his crate to greet me, sat down outside instead of smelling every inch of the yard, and did not follow me around the house. I immediately put him in his crate and off to the vet we went the next day.
On March 15th he was not showing any big signs of pain other than reluctance to move. The vet did an exam and he agreed he did not see any clear signs of pain. He placed him on Previcox 57mg 1/2 tablet once a day and 1/4 tablet of Tramadol every 8 hours. I have him on strict crate rest, only allowed out for potty breaks. I carry him to the yard and back to his crate. He loves his crate so keeping him "restful" is quite easy.
The past week he was not showing any signs of pain or wobbly legs, until last night. I noticed when I took him out last night to do his business he was wobbly in the legs. Same this morning and afternoon. Just wondering if I should take him back to the vet or just continue with our crate rest? He has his first scheduled acupuncture appointment on Wednesday. Should I wait to go to that appointment? I know patience is virtue when dealing with this disease. I have just never seen it get worse as crate rest continues on medicine.
FYI, we don't look at surgery as an option this time around. After Kilo's surgery a year and a half ago he lost a bit of his spirit. It changed him into a more timid and shy pup rather than the outgoing dog he use to be. Not to mention Kilo is 7 years old and I refuse to put him through another invasive surgery.
Additionally, here is the answers to your questions:
--What is your dog's name? Kilo
--What breed is your dog and did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD? Chi/Corgi mix; October 2011
-- What was the date you saw the vet and started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? March 16th
-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? No obvious signs of pain other than reluctant to move much
-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? 1/2 tablet 57mg Previcox given once a day; 1/4 tablet Tramadol every eight hours
-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?
Dog can walk but has developed a slight wobble over the lat 24 hours; wags tail
-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? no
-- Eating and drinking OK? yes
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? normal
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 25, 2013 7:14:19 GMT -7
Renea, welcome to Dodgerslist. I'm sorry to hear Kilo is having a disc problem again. Conservative treatment can work in many cases, but do know if pain would not be able to be controlled or there is accelerated loss of nerve functions in a matter of hours that 7 years old is not too old for surgery if it is a financial option for your family. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Kilo --> Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for successful surgery. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12/24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. So if surgery is an option get to a neuro or ortho asap. First thing is that reluctance to move IS pain and needs to be dealt with if you are still seeing it with Tramadol. Phone into the vet and let him know your observations of pain so he will know the need for further adjustments. Healing can't get fully underway until pain is under control 100% dose to dose of his pain meds. If it takes, vets can prescribe all three pain relievers or any combo of Tramadol, methocarbamol or gabapentin. This page will help you to under stand the medications. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm#painPepcid AC should also be on board and it is not. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not to take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID, Previcox. Pepcid is generally considered a safe-over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for a healthy dog and good insurance. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure to know what you are to monitor for. If you have a question about anything you read, let's talk! This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmSo it is highly advisable to communicate by phone asap about the worsening neuro function, discuss pain if that is still going on (reluctance to move) and see if there is any health reason that would keep Kilo from Pepcid AC. Please do stay in touch and let us know what the vet says/prescribes, |
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renea
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by renea on Mar 25, 2013 19:34:53 GMT -7
Thank you for your response. I do not want to put Kilo through another surgery and want to heal the issue with conservative treatment. The first surgery was way too hard on him and I can't imagine putting him through it again. In the past 24 hours not much has changed except that he is no longer reluctant to move. He very much wants "out" when it is time for a potty break. He is still somewhat wobbly, but has always been a little off since his surgery. He has a bad right knee from an injury long ago and that seems to be the side that is giving him the most trouble it tends to cross from time to time. Otherwise in the last 24 hours nothing has changed but nothing has worsened either. We go in for acupuncture on Wednesday so I'm hoping that will move things along. I'm in it for the long haul. His spirit is still very much himself!Thank you so much for recommending the Pepcid as well. I called the vet today and he told me it was fine to move forward. Sometimes I feel like I'm telling my vet the proper protacol?! The vet we are going to on Wednesday is a holistic vet and specializes in IVDD so I am excited to begin acupuncture and perhaps getting him on a new diet that will help him with his issues. Any recommendations for diet? He is corgi/chi so it doesn't take much to make him gain the pounds! Any supplements? Obviously, I want to get him through this bout but also want to be thinking ahead for the future! Thank you so much for the support. I just keep reminding myself that patience is virtue with IVDD and our little guy will get through. Only six more weeks of crate  plus we look at it this way - if he does happen to go down for the long term we would be happy to set him up with a pair of wheels |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 26, 2013 10:49:39 GMT -7
Renea, so pleased to hear Kilo is out of pain evidence by good spirits and no longer reluctant to move! Now healing can get underway. What dose of Pepcid AC and how often did the vet say to give it? Now is not the time to change his diet. With the meds used with IVDD there should be no confusion if you would see not interested in eating, vomit, or diarhea..... was it due to temporary effects of a diet change or should serious action be taken because of meds reactions. Supplements should always be researched not just to avoid wasting money but also to know which might be useful for the IVDD dog and when to begin using them. This article will get you started: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htmPlease do keep us updated on your acupuncture visit on Wednesday. |
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renea
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by renea on Apr 5, 2013 11:33:41 GMT -7
Hello, So far we are going on four weeks on crate rest and everything is going great. We went for acupuncture and laser therapy last week and that was a big success. He loved the laser therapy and was ready to roll after that. I had to do everything in my might to not have him jumping up and down in his crate. While at the vet she checked his back legs/hips and he screeched in pain. She did a back check and nothing, not one reaction to pain (he had been off pain meds for 24 hours at that time). At this time she firmly believes that arthritis has set in his back legs and hips, including his bad left knee and possibly his back. She plans to do x-rays as soon as crate rest is complete. Here is my predicament. Since she mentioned arthritis I have been educating myself and I have realized that a lot of the same symptoms are persistent with arthritis as with IVDD, minus wobbly legs. If I do find out if arthritis has set in how do I know if it is an IVDD flare up or simply soreness from arthritis. I would hate to crate rest him for eight weeks if he is just sore from arthritis. I am also happy to report that the wobbly legs went away about fours days after they originally started. We did learn that his back left leg is still slow to react, however he has a callus on the top of his left paw so the vet believes that since his surgery a year and a half ago that it has always been slow to react and he has "caught" it on the walks and playing from time to time. This is also the leg that has a bad left knee so again, she can contribute it to a number of factors. The right leg and front legs are in perfect working condition. Right now it is hard to keep him calm. In his crate he is just fine and naps away, but once it's potty break time and I put him in the yard he try's to sprint away on the leash. How do I control this? I can tell his little legs want to roll. Plus the other night I opened his crate door to change his water and he sprinted out. He has been off all pain meds for over a week so I know he is feeling better. What are your suggestions? Thanks again for all the support. My new concern is the arthritis and IVDD symptoms and trying to tell the difference. Also, after crate rest what the protocol to "reintroducing" him to normal life. He has one speed and it is usually warp speed |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 5, 2013 11:54:59 GMT -7
Wobbly walking is a sign of nerve damage from a disc pressuring the spinal cord. With arthritis the joints are not lubricated properly and it hurts to move. When a disc episode is pain only and no nerve damaged it can be a challenge to diagnose...ususally a good hands on neuro exam helps to pintpoint where the pain is if in the back or the neck. With a disc episode movement can contribute to worsening of the disc and potential severe damage to the spinal cord. Therefore strict rest is required. With arthritis the opposite care is needed that of keeping the joints moving. Is your vet now saying it is not and never was a disc problem? I might be inclined to continue with crate rest under the assumption it was a disc problem. I would however do daily PT with his legs.... range of motion and massage to keep the joints moving as highlighted in PINK and red numbers. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmSetting up a 6 foot diameter fence at potty time can help limit sniff fests and trying to dart away. Otherwise the use of a 6 foot leash and harness (no more collars) while you stand in one spot limits his running off and number of footsteps. Ex-pen fence at potty times: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conserv/pottytime.jpgGARDEN edging fencing: snipurl.com/2354smg [photo of wire fence] |
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plus we look at it this way - if he does happen to go down for the long term we would be happy to set him up with a pair of wheels 