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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 25, 2014 5:12:14 GMT -7
Wendy I just wanted to check in and see how you and Lola are doing this morning. You have been on a roller coaster. Hope you had a restful night.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 25, 2014 5:24:38 GMT -7
This morning with Lola's sling urination, the odor of her urine is not good...I took a sample , which is easy since I have her streaming into a glass tray to save on the pee pads, and will be bringing it in to the vets this morning for a test to see if we have an infection as well. I was hoping that the sling unrination was enough to empty her, but, maybe not. It is hard to express her with pressure as she has muscles in there that tighten and do not allow me to express...maybe I just need more practice? There is still a steady stream when she sling pees though....
her function remains the same today, I was hoping to wake up and have it clear up as quickly as it appeared. She is still eating and drinking the same, just looks less clear eyed and sad, I am assuming it is the pain meds?
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 25, 2014 6:28:11 GMT -7
Expressing does sometimes require practice. I know I had quite a bit of difficulty learning how to do it at first. You sometimes need to hold and press a bit longer than you think you should. Also it can be helpful to wait a minute or so and try again. If she's tensing, you can try placing a warm towel on her belly to relax her. Or tap on her belly with your fingertips to ease up the muscles. As the bladder gets smaller, it moves around, sometimes going back towards the hip and you have to find it again. It feels like a balloon. If she's doing two steady streams of urine every few hours, that should be good, though. Hopefully, it's not an infection. Please keep us updated.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 25, 2014 15:31:56 GMT -7
So, I guess Lola's urine had lots of white blood cells and bacteria, indicating a urinary tract infection. She is starting on clavamox for this. Amazing how quickly this came on, unless, it was brewing for a while? I could smell her urine was off since last night. I am hoping this is not a result of her not eliminating on her own since yesterday....
lola is still emptying her bladder via the sling, and, we are getting good streams. No bowel movement yet today, not sure if I should assist her today with this, or wait to see if it happens tomorrow? Her appetite and drinking are still good.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 25, 2014 16:45:17 GMT -7
Kudos to you for getting the urine cultured so quickly Wendy. The antibiotic should help clear up the infection. You are doing a great job.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 26, 2014 6:25:43 GMT -7
Lola's urine is already losing some of the foul odour. I asked her vet about having sucralfate on hand in case I start seeing vomiting, diahrrea, refusal to eat or drink etc. and, she has agreed it would be a good idea for me to have some in case, so, I will be picking it up tomorrow. I have been looking into carts and walk assistive rear devices which can eventually clip into a cart. I realize we have at least another 8 weeks until we would use a cart, but, I could use a better device for taking her outside when/ if she regains function of her bladder and bowels...or...should I keep her eliminating inside her crate, or beside her crate until her 8 weeks is up again and then see where we are?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 26, 2014 8:26:20 GMT -7
Wendy, you are doing such a good job in being observant of the UTI and now advocating for the sucralfate....Good work!
During the 8 weeks it takes the disc to heal, the focus needs to be on limited movement. So if you can continue with elimination beside the crate you will have Lola with as much limited movement as possible. Remember we carry our small dogs to and from the potty place which you can't. It is the walking/ moving about that causes movement of the vertebrae which then push on a weak and still healing disc. At the end of 8 weeks, when the disc has healed, you can best assess if some sort of wheel chair is needed.
What are you using for a sling at this time? Having a good sling to help her move to beside the crate or to a vet visit that is actually an essential visit, could be of help to you in more easily maintaining the spine is aligned and the rear from collapsing, tipping over.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 26, 2014 8:54:33 GMT -7
Thanks Paula, in thinking ahead to what we could possibly need in a cart, I was looking at this sling www.handicappedpetscanada.com/walkin-rear-fabric-lift-harnessas it works with their cart which is one I like. I do not know if her back needs more support than this harness offers though? i am currently using a long baby blanket folded to about 3 inches thick that is slinged right in front of her back legs, I lift her feet up off the floor to place the pressure for her to pee, as well as to help he exit her crate. Currently I have her eliminating into a glass casserole dish in her crate by hoisting her back end with the sling. I take her out of the crate once or twice a day as she requires her bedding changed due to a b.m., a wipe down with green tea, or some urine missing the dish. i have not yet purchased a harness for her as she was just walking slowly with the sling for eliminating before this 2 nd episode. if she continues to have issues with this, is it possible for her to live comfortably with a wheelchair for outside "play time" and walks and just lounging inside with assistance to eliminate?...or...if her disc continually has issues like this does it cause continual pain resulting in poor quality of life? i ow I shouldn't be thinking that far ahead with so much unknown, I am trying to wrap my head around worse case scenario and what is do able. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Mar 26, 2014 9:48:44 GMT -7
A well made harness will make both of your lives easier. This one has been recommended by a face book friend - easy to get on and off. www.gingerlead.com/ Check it out and see what you think. She will feel so much better with that UTI knocked out.  Belly rubs and ear scratches to Lola |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 26, 2014 11:13:59 GMT -7
Wendy, I would ]say a rear harness should definately NOT drive which wheelchair product would be purchased. If a wheelchair is needed then do a bit of reading to research the necessary features a chair should have for an IVDD dog. www.handicappedpetscanada.com/walkin-rear-fabric-lift-harnessI was thinking for your ease, a rear harness would be a good thing. Putting a baby blanket sling under each time for her potty time lifting, and other care needs might be made easier with a harness. A rear harness could be left on during the day when you are with her. Moving would just mean grabbing the handles and lifting. I have not used the one in your link, so I can't speak to it. I have had an opportunity to review the walkabout back harness and can attest to the quality, sturdiness, good fit at the upper thigh. The harness material is neoprene, stretches with thigh movement not constricting as canvas might be, washes and dries quickly. www.walkaboutharnesses.com/collections/walkabout-harnessesI have also reviewed the Gingerlead sling and found it to be a very good product. So it just depends on whether the harness staying on during the day is of help to you or you like the idea of slipping a sling under Lola each time she needs to be moved works for you. Living with IVDD means we know to crate if an episode happens and treat with meds during the time it takes for a disc to heal. After graduation day, Lola would be of course pain free, off all meds and back to normal life. IVDD is unpredictable... some dogs have one disc episode their entire life while others may have multiple ones. |
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 26, 2014 16:05:52 GMT -7
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 26, 2014 18:16:00 GMT -7
So, I had quite the scare tonight, as I was helping Lola get out of her crate as I was thinking she may need a bowel movement, she sat down, I reached behind her to get the sling in place and she suddenly squealed, turned and grabbed my hand hard, as I tried to remove her mouth, she grabbed my other hand, I have two quite bad bites. I am concerned at her suddenly having pain like this. I certainly understand that she was obviously in great pain causing this reaction, but, I am a little leery around her now as it hurt. I had my daughter wrap a small leash around her muzzle a few hours later to help Lola pee in case it hurt her again and she reacted with a bite, but, she was quite calm and non reactive. Not sure what to do? Does she need more pain meds? Was it just a bad position she sat in ( her legs were stretched straight out under her, but, the pain seemed in her lower back?) I keep talking sweet talk to her, but, she is looking at me with some uncertainty, or, maybe I am reading too much into this.
this is the first pain reaction I have seen in Lola throughout this episode, she has been poked, prodded, slinged everywhere, washed, wiped, had food forced in her mouth at the beginning...I have never seen her react like this....any thoughts as to what happened?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 26, 2014 18:29:37 GMT -7
The Walking lift combo is designed with lift assisting in mind...that there is a requirement for both the front and the back end assistance...so it is naturally a heavy duty product. A regular harness is a lot lighter in weight and would be more to control speed while using a rear sling.
So if Lola can walk in a stable manner with her front legs, the it seems a lighter weight harness could be used just fine and just the more heavy duty sling is needed for the rear end.
We do not mind giving our opinion on products we have experience with. And we encourage members also to share their comments on slings, etc. they find are good.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 26, 2014 22:38:25 GMT -7
I know how frightening this can be, Wendy. I have a scar on my arm where Jeremy bit me when I tried to pick him up to go to the hospital when he first went down. The pain from these discs episodes can be very bad. You should immediately let the vet know of Wendy's pain so he can adjust her pain meds. A lot of vets have found that Gabapentin works very well with Tramadol in controlling pain. Meanwhile, you can use a muzzle on Wendy or an e-collar would work too when handling her at potty times. I know you haven't seen signs of pain before but I think Wendy has been good at hiding it.
Please know, too, that Tramadol can cause anxiety or agitation. Report the biting to the vet so he is aware of exactly what happened.
Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to them.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 27, 2014 4:34:26 GMT -7
Thanks Paula, I will order the ginger lead set today, their harness actually looks quite good and conforms with the information on dodgers list regarding harnesses . www.handicappedpetscanada.com/front-chest-plate-harness-ezy-dog/i think it will work well for her. thanks Marjorie! I was just stunned!!! and in a lot of pain! Lola bites hard! I will get a muzzle today so I can work with her without worry. I will also call the vet this morning and ask about gabapentin. I guess on one hand, it is good she has feeling and sensation, but, pain is not good. i just spoke to the vet, Lola is now twitching every minute or so, the pain is now evident even though she is on tramadol. The vet has ordered some gabapentin but it won't be in until tomorrow, I expressed my concern at Lola's pain so the vet is coming to our house at 4 today to give her an opiate injection to help with pain until the gabapentin can come on board tomorrow . the vet is questioning if we perhaps have a new injury, which, I suspect given the way Lola responded after shifting in her crate last night.....who knows.... |
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Mar 27, 2014 6:04:00 GMT -7
Wow that is scary. Please let us know what the Vet says about getting her pain meds adjusted. She sounds pretty stoic and must of really hurt to bite. Marjorie's ideas are great to prevent another one.
Keeping you in thought and prayer.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 27, 2014 7:08:05 GMT -7
I edited my earlier post, the vet is coming out at 4 today to give Lola an opiate pain injection to tie her over until tomorrow when we can add the gabapentin.
with her pain, I was thinking of trying to express her laying down (with a muzzle), but, she sometimes sits up swiftly and looks at me as if she has to go, I had my daughter do our makeshift muzzle, slinged her again and she did pee....what is the best for her right now? Keep her laying down, or, have her eliminate when she sits up? She has not tried to snap at all since last night, but, she looks in pain with her twitching and just a look she has right now.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 27, 2014 7:35:45 GMT -7
She can sit up or be lifted to urinate. If you think it's less painful for her to be expressed on her side, you can try that. The main thing is to get that pain under control today. Pain should be under control within one hour after taking the pain meds (or the injection given by the vet - please find out what he's giving her so we have that info). There should be no sign of pain from one dose to the next. Here is our page again on expressing with some help on expressing in a prone position: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm I truly hope that Lola will get pain relief soon. Please let us know how she does after the injection. Blessings to you all. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 27, 2014 9:07:58 GMT -7
What is the hold up on Gabapentin? Is it being compounded into a liquid which does take time? Most people pharmacies carry gabapentin capsules and may also have it in tablet form. Do some legwork, phone your pharmacies to see what they have on their shelves. Can your vet call in an Rx to your local pharmacy for the capsule or tablet so you can obtain asap? CAVEAT: liquid compounded gabapentin might contain the poisonous-to-dogs XYLITOL. This ingredient won't be on the label, you specifically would have to ask the compounding pharmacist which sweetner was used. GABAPENTIN Capsules or tablets come in 100 mg, 300 mg, 400 mg, 600 mg, and 800 mg sizes www.drugs.com/imprints.php?drugname=GabapentinHow do deal with powder in capsules Just an example here: If Rx'd approx 30mg of of gabapentin in capsules then, Divide the 100mg capsule powder into 3 equal parts by dumping into a creased pieced of paper and with a razor blade move the powder into 3 equal piles. Store the remainder of the powder piles in one of those 7 day pill boxes with a lid for each day. NOTE: both tramadol and gabapentin are very bitter tasting. Make sure you do not transfer any dust from your finger to the outside of the pill treat. I mash a piece of banana, form a ball, make an indentation. Spoon powder dose into well and close up. If necessary drape a piece of thin deli meat around ball for further tastiness! www.equipment4life.com.au/images/products/SDL750.jpgYour vet has a lot of room to move up on Tramadol that is not yet being done for a 60 lbs dog. Waiting til 4pm to get pain help is a LONG time. See if you call and discuss a more aggressive approach with Tramadol and methocarbamol. Background readings to enable discussion with vet: Methocarbamol www.petplace.com/drug-library/methocarbamol-robaxin-v/page1.aspxTramadol vasg.org/t_drugs.htm#TRAMGabapentin vasg.org/g_drugs.htm#GABAP60 lbs prednisone 3/24: 100 mg every 12 hours for 7 days, then down to 75 mg every 12 hours for 7 days, then 50 mg twice daily. tramadol 100mg every 8 hours Robaxin 500 mg every 8 hrs.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 27, 2014 9:59:38 GMT -7
The clinic Lola attends is a rescue organizations clinic, they do a lot of low cost high volume spay, neuters for feral colonies, and, for clients on assistance. They have been great with Lola, but, they do not carry all the medications a bigger clinic may have. I phoned to see if I could get the gabapentin from a pharmacy or another clinic, but, they it is a regulated drug and they could not do that...maybe the regulations are different in Canada...I'm not sure? When the vet comes at 4 for Lola's shot, I will ask her to look up increasing the tramadol if possible, I am hoping the shot she gives will hold Lola over until the gabapentin can begin tomorrow.....Lola is still doing alright now with my slinging her to urinate, I removed her from her crate to change her pad as she had leaked this morning as I was out getting her muzzle, as soon as she was out of her crate she had a bowel movement. I am going to wait for her green tea wash down today until after her shot this afternoon.
So far with the muzzle, I feel safer, and Lola has not responded or reacted as she did with last nights episode, thank goodness.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Mar 27, 2014 10:12:07 GMT -7
Wendy, I am still a new moderator and not as well versed in all of the medications as our other moderators are, but I do have personal experience with Gabapentin for pain control. Mimi wasn't a biter, but she was in serious pain that we couldn't control with just tramadol. From my experience, once the gabapentin was onboard, it helped tremendously. We used a liquid (not the pills) because our vet has a special pharmacy that they use nearby that will compound the drug. They are used to dealing with dogs so they know not to use xylitol (however, I still ask each time I pick it up to confirm there is none). So just make sure if it is a liquid that no xylitol is used.
Again, you really are doing such an amazing job with Lola. (((HUGS))) to both of you.
PS...make sure you have treated your wounds and have a doctor look at them if necessary.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 27, 2014 10:21:25 GMT -7
Thanks Jean, hopefully the shot today will help her until I get the gabapentin. The vet just called, and, they have rearranged her appointments so that she can come now to give Lola the shot.....yay! They have been so good to her and I through this, I just hope it works for her.
i think I am ok, my thumb is swelled and quite painful,but, the pain is getting a little better .I used peroxide on it and will keep an eye on it. I am a little worried about going to a doctor, dog bites are mandatory to report for doctors I think.....I don't need her labelled. I could be wrong though, I would think people would understand the dogs pain.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 27, 2014 12:11:06 GMT -7
Paula, the medication injected today was bupinephrine, the vet also said I could go up with the tramadol, apparently she can go up to 10 tablets from the 2 she is on, this shot should last her 12 hours, but, the vet said if she is showing any sign of oain to give her one or two extra and if needed go unto more until the gabapentin is on board tomorrow.
thankyou so much for your information and pushing....Lola thanks you too. : )
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Mar 27, 2014 18:37:50 GMT -7
Hi Wendy, I'm Sabrina. I'm just getting caught up on Lola's story - I am so sorry to hear of her pain and your bites! Be sure to get some medical attention for the bites if you need it. You are doing so well in being Lola's advocate!
I hope that the changes to her pain meds will do the trick in keeping Lola pain free dose to dose!
))Hugs!((
- Sabrina
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 27, 2014 19:08:58 GMT -7
Thanks Sabrina, I hope we can get this under control too... This is a video we took of Lola today, any idea why she is doing this? vimeo.com/home/myvideos |
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 28, 2014 7:51:12 GMT -7
OK, I did get the video but it stopped and started. Are you referring to the movements she's making with her head? She does not seem to be comfortable at all. I would move that Tramadol up as high as the vet said you could and give it consistently every 8 hours. The disc that has caused so much pain may be in her neck. Neck episodes can be much more painful than back episodes and can take longer to heal. I would implement all of the cervical tips we have on this page to help her neck heal just in case it is the neck: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm |
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 28, 2014 8:15:38 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie ,
Yes, I was referring to the head movement. When the vet was here to examine her yesterday, Lola was very sore in her lower spine in one particular spot, this is the same area she initially started with and was on the X-ray. I think when she screamed the other night, she reinjured this area, not sure though what exactly happened for this reoccurrence on Monday though....could the pain be shooting up her spine to cause her head to move like this? I sent the video to her vet last night, and, she was going to consult with people to see what they think it is?
Lola is taking some weight on her legs now if I position her feet correctly,mi can lower the sling and her legs bend nicely taking a little of her hind end weight, she still needs me to position her legs and feet though. The sling eliminating is working alright, some times it does not, but, in a couple of hours later it will. She is leaking a little this morning.
I am so hoping that the gabapentin helps her, I have given her extra tramadol this morning in hopes it helps hold her over until the gabapentin comes in today.
She had started with the head movement again, it only occurs when she is trying to sleep with her head down....should I maybe prop her head up a bit and see if that helps her rest?..a pillow or something?
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 28, 2014 9:02:22 GMT -7
When they injure their necks, it hurts to move the neck at all, up, down, to the side. Yes, try a pillow under her neck to see if that helps. She may possibly have more than one disc causing her problems. And start the other tips given in the link I gave you earlier.
Very good news that she's taking some weight on her legs now!!
Be sure to express her every 2-3 hours to her bladder doesn't overflow, causing leaking. Keep giving her the full Tramadol and Robaxin every 8 hours.
I hope you both have a better day today.
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Post by Wendy & Kado on Mar 28, 2014 9:10:36 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie, interesting that Lola began whining, when I went to her she was sitting up looking like she wanted out of her crate, I tried having her sling pee in her crate, a little came, I then let her outside the door of he crate onto a yoga mat( for slipping), she squatted for a bit, peed some more( I had the sling supporting her weight a bit) when I went to walk her back into her crate( 2 steps) there was a bowel movement.( a little fell out in her crate)..she wanted out of her crate to do this, I am assuming she has the sensation that she has to go? She would have liked for me to walk her to the door, I stopped her on the yoga mat. I am hoping I can get her to eliminate there so we have less movement, I am pleased she could let me know she had to go though!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 28, 2014 14:45:37 GMT -7
That's wonderful, Wendy! It sounds as though Lola has taken a turn for the better.
Did you start her on the Gabapentin today? Pain fully under control now? No more discomfort or inability to lie comfortably in her crate?
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