Ana's Popo 2/19 Conservative Dachshund

Welcome to Dodgerslist, Ana. Please let Popo know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Whether it's IVDD or due to trauma to the back, Popo's condition would be treated in the same way. The fall could have caused a deteriorated disc to rupture. Therefore, you'll need to treat as though it is IVDD and take all preventive measures to protect his back in the future.

1.  Crate rest.  100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

2.  Pain.  Is there still currently pain? Signs of pain are holding the head in an unusual position, head held high or nose to the ground, shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, arched back, holding leg up flamingo style, not wanting to bear weight on the leg, just not their usual perky-interested-in-life self.

3.  Pepcid AC. Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep him from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.

4.  Bladder control.  Prednisone does cause increased thirst and urination.  You should take Popo out to do his business every 2-3 hours.  Finding wet bedding indicates one of two things:  either he's not being taken out often enough or his bladder is overflowing.  When you take him outside, can he sniff and release urine on his own?  If not, you will need to learn to express his bladder.  Make sure he can release a good stream or two of urine.  If not, he may need help emptying his bladder until full control returns.  Please let us know more about this - how often you're taking him out, sniff and pee test, etc.  The fact that he can tell you when he needs to go is a very good sign of return of bladder control.  The bowels can also be expressed to help prevent accidents.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

The fact that Popo wagged his tail when seeing food coming his way is a very good sign that the nerves to the tail are connecting properly.

When he needs cleaning, wipe him down right in his crate.  Green tea neutralizes the acidity of the urine and helps prevent urine burn and leaves a nice smell.  Make a pot of green tea, let it cool down and wipe him with that.  The remaining green tea can be kept in the fridge and reheated for later use.

Acupuncture can be very helpful in giving the nerves a jump start to regenerate so good job on including that in his treatment.

The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all meds and there is no pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk but only after all meds are stopped and there is no pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm

We have a very helpful DVD that will educate you, your family members and friends, pet sitters, etc. about caring for an IVDD dog. Please see the link in my signature line.

Please don't despair. IVDD is not a death sentence. Many dogs regain use of their legs and even if they don't, their lives can be happy ones.
www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm

We're here for you and Popo and will help you through this.

Healing prayers for Popo.

Hi Ana, I'm Sabrina. I'm so glad to hear Popo isn't showing any signs of pain!

Steriods (like pred) are great for resolving swelling/inflammation, but they do carry a lot of side effects. It's prudent to use them only as long as they are needed. Some dogs need them for a week, some need them for a month or more. The only way we can tell if the steroid is still needed is to taper (decrease the dose) and observe for signs of pain.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/drugs.htm#prednisone

The rule of thumb is:
Pain = Swelling/inflammation = More time on the anti-inflammatory dose

It looks like you have already tapered the pred from 2x/day to 1x/day? If so, did your vet instruct you to back off of or stop the pain meds? With a taper of the steriod, it's important to have a clear picture if there is still pain. If the pain meds are still being given every 8hrs they may be masking pain, so do ask your vet tomorrow how to either back off of or stop the pain meds.

))Hugs!((

Apologies for not updating yesterday!

Did see the vet and mention the Pepto. There isn't any reason he can't take it but did say his steroid dose was so low it wouldn't be an issue. His pain meds end today and muscle relaxer ended yesterday (emerg did not give me enough to last 7 days apparently). So he is being tapered off all meds but if needed will go back on them.

Vet saw some improvement. He did wag his tail 3 times or so yesterday but they didn't last long. All wags seemed in response to something rather than random (seeing Dad, telling him he was a good boy, etc.). He did respond somewhat to the vet when testing his back legs but still will not straight feet out if flipped upside down.

This morning we did have an incident our of the norm. When he wanted to poop today he was making a lot of very quiet whines (should stress they were really quiet but there). Was some shaking but also very minor. He hasn't done this previously. I should also note though that today was the latest day so far for a poop after a meal. It came roughly 40 mins after eating and he hadn't pooped since roughly 5pm yesterday. He's been normally pooping prior to eating or 5 mins after.

His kibble is thrown in to water already with every meal. He is known not to be a big drinker at all, so we wanted to be sure he was getting his water this way.

The pumpkin was already pay of his diet prior to the accident so may reintroduce that.

Vet told me the sounds were most likely in response to more muscle relaxer but to also be wary of it just incase

Ana, Pepto and Pepcid AC are totally different stomach protectors.  It would be dangerous to use any ADULT Peptobismol product with either a NSAID or a steroid.  ADULT Pepto Bismol's products contain bismuth SUBsalicylate a derivative of of aspirin.
www.pepto-bismol.com/pepto-original-liquid.php
www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=26+1303&aid=1456

Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord.  Next watch for bladder control.
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal.  <--
3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.

Shaking as well as yelping, a tight tense tummy, trembling, reluctant to change position in the recovery suite, moves slowly.  Do you see shaking with any other signs of pain?

Hi Ana,

It sounds to me as if Popo is having signs of pain.. Pain means the swelling hasn't be resolved and he should go back to the twice daily dose of the Prednisone, which is the anti inflammatory does.. When the taper starts it is no longer having the the anti inflammatory effect. I would ask the Vet ASAP about this right away. He was only on the twice daily dose for 3 days and some dogs require from two weeks and others up to a month on the Prednisone to tackle the swelling. It's not unusual to have to taper more than once.

He should also go back on the Methocarbamol and Tramadol, so discuss that with your Vet as well..

Thanks for the update and sending feel better wishes to Popo.. and comforting thoughts to you, as well.

Hi again Ana,

It's not slight discomfort if he is shivering throughout the whole Acupuncture procedure and also yelping. He's in pain which  means the swelling is not down yet and it is important to INSIST that the vet allow him back on the Prednisone twice a day to get the swelling down that is causing the pain.  Just wrote a post above yours explaining how long it takes some dogs to get the swelling down and hit send the same time you did in case you missed it..  He should also go back on his Tramadol and Methocarbamol also..


He's in pain, and that shouldn't be allowed at all, please advocate for Popo! 

Hi Ana,

Not much you can do about Popo rolling over and sleeping in a curled up ball.  They won't roll over and sleep in a ball if they aren't up to it, it's actually a sign of improvement!

I think I would stop the accupunture treatments since it's a big source of anxiety for him.  You can always restart them again later if need be.. 

To calm him in his crate:  Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate, he will love that and it will keep you close to him

Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog.

Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below:

Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com

Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc.

Put wheels on the crate and wheel it from room to room so he can be with you and have a change of scenery.   Put the crate securely on a table so she can see outside. Play calming music.

Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers:www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm

Hope some of these ideas help! 

If acupuncture causes that much anxiety for Popo, I wouldn't continue with it at all, Ana, at least not with the present acupuncturist. It may just not be the right type of treatment for him. Stress is not helpful to healing. You're doing the most important treatment for him - the strict crate rest for 8 weeks so stay committed to that.

Or you might want to try to find another acupuncturist. I had a very bad experience with the first acupuncturist I took my Jeremy to. He didn't know what he was doing, was a vet who had just taken some courses in acupuncture. He said he had to sedate Jeremy, who wouldn't stay still for the treatments. Gave him an injection of sedative in his vein, which was very stressful to Jeremy, who was stressed out to begin with. I read later that acupuncture isn't effective when sedated. I took Jeremy to another acupuncturist who was wonderful with him.  She was also a vet but only practiced acupuncture all day.   She had a way with dogs so he didn't become so agitated before the treatment. Then she would place one needle in his forehead, which would calm him right down. As soon as she did that, he would lie down and stay down for the whole session. And Jeremy is a very excitable dog. Be sure that the acupuncturist, if you decide to try again, is certified. Here are some questions to ask:

1. Where was he or she trained to practice Oriental Medicine?
2. How long was the training?
3. How long has he or she been in practice as an acupuncturist?
4. What experience does he or she have in treating IVDD?
5. Is he or she licensed?

Popo has come a long way in just three weeks. Wonderful signs of nerve healing! Keep up the good work.

At this point, you're already doing the most important thing to help him heal - the 100% strict crate rest. With that being done, the disc will heal. As for the nerve damage, nerves take a long time to heal, months, even a year or more. My Jeremy had surgery and still didn't move his legs or feet for months after. We can't give you the odds for recovery. No one knows. There is certainly the hope of recovery with or without acupuncture. I know you want to do all that you can. Have you looked into laser light therapy? No needles involved so it shouldn't be as stressful for him and that is a good additional treatment, too.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htm

Or with his stress levels, it might be best just to allow him to rest and heal in his crate.

Wonderful news that he stood on his own and is moving those legs, Ana! Be sure to use a halter and 6' foot leash when he goes out to potty to control his movements. And a sling to support his hind end. You can use an ex-pen outside or use plastic push-in-the-ground fencing to make a 6' potty area which will limit his steps and help control him.

Is he being excitable in the crate? Have you had a chance to try any of the suggestions that Pauliana had given you?

We're on about week six I believe of crate rest now and Po seems to have taken a few steps back.

He was on a roll getting better. Standing, wanting to run (was being denied during potty breaks), walking with sling assist wonderfully, and over all in a good mood. But two days ago we noticed he wasn't in a happy mood. That morning he did okay but as the day progressed he started not using his legs when pottying and even peeing on his feet. This morning he's the same so I didn't even bother with the sling and just held him.

The weather did have a bit of a cold spell but other than that I'm not sure what change could of done this. I'm just really worried that somehow we ruined his progress. Does anyone know if this is normal?

I've not been able to find an actual neurologist or specialist in town. He was being seen by a regular vet but the regular vet isn't aware of conservative treatment. I will try calling around and see if any are more familiar

It is now past the eight well mark and Popo is walking a wobbly walk. Sometimes he falls a little but continues to improve. Because he's past eight weeks and walking some what my question is: where do we go from here? I still am crating him but he is having longer potty break periods outside to enjoy himself (last under five minutes). I want him to progress and be able to enjoy freedom again but I'm not sure what is too much.