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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 1, 2014 10:52:06 GMT -7
Hi there.
I just wanted to get some advice on my little yorkie Teddy (3 yrs old). He had surgery for a thoracolumbar disc extrusion on the 14th January. The surgery went to plan and he's now in recovery - the surgeon said he had a 75% chance of recovery. I have him in a pen in the sitting room and we bring him up to our bedroom at night so we can keep an eye on him (he's in his own little bed). For the first week he was very poorly as he had terrible swelling on his spine but that was drained by the vet and since then, he's a bit more like himself and he's eating 3 small meals a day for me. The stitches came out yesterday finally.
He has a bed sore though on his left sitting bone so that's been causing some trouble - the vet said to put manuka honey on it and I've had to resort to putting newborn nappies on him as he was licking it (and didn't want to put a cone on him). They seem to be doing the trick protecting it until we can get it healed.
He was incontinent for the first week after surgery and he's still lame in the hind legs but he's starting to wee himself when I bring him outside... he'd wee maybe every 8 hours or so, I was trying to get him to go more regularly but sometimes he doesn't go when I bring him out. I guess that's normal?
My local vet does acupuncture on animals and he has been treating him twice a week now with nerve stimulation using an electro pack on the acupuncture points with some physio.. can't quite remember the name of it but the vet is happy with his progress. Once his bed sore heals I'll bring him to some hydrotherapy classes as well and see how he gets on with that.
I've been doing some standing exercises with him - his right leg seems stronger than the left. He's not moving them himself yet but he's able to stand for 10 seconds or so.. the right leg stays straight but the left leg sometimes bends and is more limp.
I'm wondering if you have any further advice for me to help his recovery and get him back on his 4 paws again? We adore the little guy and have been devastated since this happened, but we're determined to help him as much as possible.
Thanks for any advice you may have
Yvette xx
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 1, 2014 11:26:43 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Yvette. It sounds as though you are doing a very good job with Teddy - getting him the surgery he needed, acupuncture, PT and plans on doing hydrotherapy. All of those things, plus time, is what is needed. It's a very good sign that his bladder control has returned and that he's able to stand, even if only for seconds. It can take 2-4 weeks for all the swelling from the surgery to resolve and until that time, the nerves aren't connecting properly so to see as much improvement as you have is all very good. What instructions have you been given on crate rest? I see that he's in his own bed at night. Usually 6 weeks of crate rest is prescribed after surgery, only being carried in and out to do potty with some supervised, slow PT. Otherwise, in the crate/recovery suite/pen resting. Once he's feeling better, he will try to pull himself around. That should not be allowed for at least 6 weeks. This page will have information you should read up on: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmIs he still on any meds? If so, please let us know the names, exact dosage in mgs and frequency given. If he is still on meds, it is even more important to restrict his movement as he will be feeling good from the meds masking any pain and will feel he can do more than he should. When you take him out to urinate, is he releasing a good stream of urine? Do you find any wet bedding or does he leak on you when picked up? Sometimes when bladder control is just returning, they may not completely empty their bladder and may need to be expressed a bit after they go on their own to be sure their bladder is empty. Is he sniffing and then releasing urine on his own? Dogs with IVDD must be carried with their spines horizontal, carrying both ends. There's a video on this webpage showing how to properly lift and carry: There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks, months or even a year or longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Prayers for a complete, full recovery for little Teddy. |
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 2, 2014 6:24:00 GMT -7
Marjorie, thank you so much for coming back to me, your information above is so helpful.
I wasn't fully aware on how to carry Teddy so I'll make sure he's horizontal from now on. They didn't tell me that when I picked him up from surgeons!!
To answer some of your queries:
I have been keeping him in a pen in the sitting room in his bed with a puppy pad beside it. I've been letting him stand doing some physio that the vet showed me and he's getting better at that - sometimes he'd move forward and yesterday his right leg was trying to push him upright which was encouraging to see. But if you're saying he needs complete crate rest I might not do that as it may be too early for him to be walking around a little?
For the first week, he was incontinent and had diarrhoea which was messy. But after time his poos were more solid (besides this morning, a bit loose again!).
He has been wagging his tail the last week and a half which is good to see.
He's not on any medication now so he's completely stopped painkillers/steroids/anti-biotics.
I've been taking him out every morning, afternoon and just before we go to bed to do his wee - he would sniff the area and move forward and release his pee. He's been doing this for about a week and a half now I think. I was taking him out every 3/4 hours but he wouldn't do anything, it seems to be on a 7/8 hour rotation (or maybe every 6 hours depending). The flow seems ok I think - especially this morning it was a good steady flow. It's hard to tell though if he's completely emptying the bladder but hopefully he is.
I'm a little concerned about his bed sore but I hope that will heal up (it's on his sitting bone, he's so thin as well but we're building him up as much as we can) - I've been using Sudocrem on it and putting a baby nappy on him, it's been the only way to stop him licking it (besides the cone which traumatises him!!). It also gives him extra cushioning.
Once his bed sore heals up I'll try the hydro therapy and hopefully that will help him get stronger.
He got his stitches out on Friday from his back so that's another step as well.
If you have any other questions about him let me know if you think there's anything else I need to do.
Many thanks again,
Yvette x
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 2, 2014 7:04:19 GMT -7
If your vet has prescribed the physical therapy, by all means continue with it. The only time he should be out of the pen is to do prescribed PT, to do potty and to go to the vet, the rest of the time in the recovery suite. You mentioned he was sleeping in his own bed at night. Now that he's feeling better, the concern is that he may get up in the night or before you wake up and drag himself around the bedroom. Possibly you could bring the pen upstairs at night or get a crate for upstairs that his bed could go right into. I would stay away from the Sudocrem. It has a high volume of zinc ozide, which is poisonous to dogs. He should be fine since he's been wearing a diaper so probably hasn't licked it. A better choice would be EMT gel or spray. That's safe and very healing. The fact that Teddy sniffs and then releases his own urine and has a good, steady stream does show that he has bladder control. He may be more used to walking around a bit before going and that may be why he doesn't go as often. Keep up the good work with Teddy and please keep us updated. Adorable photo of him!  |
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 2, 2014 10:03:22 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie!
At night, we make a pen around his bed as well so we never let him drag himself around. He's always contained whether it's in the sitting room or upstairs beside our bed.
Is it ok to use Sudocream then once it's covered with the nappy/diaper? i.e if he absorbs it into his skin, is that ok?
I also have Aloe Vera gel, the vet nurse said I could use this or Manuka Honey? the only thing is the honey is very sticky and it ends up sticking the wound to the diaper. I haven't heard of EMT gel but I'll investigate it. (I live in Ireland so not sure if it's available here).
Teddy had his last pee at about 8am this morning. It's nearly 5pm now and I've brought him out 3 times and no luck yet!! I do get frustrated when it takes ages as I worry his bladder is getting too full. What would you consider safe intervals between him relieving his bladder? How many hours? He's a very small yorkie - probably about 2.5kg [5.5lbs] I think?
Many thanks for your advice
Yvette x
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 2, 2014 12:29:57 GMT -7
It is the ingesting of zinc in Sudocream that is toxic. The cream acts as a barrier to keep urine off the skin which as I read is not an issue as he can potty on his own outside. Perhaps the better idea would be to use the Aloe Vera gel.
Do you have a memory foam or egg crate foam mattress to help alleviate pressure points to the skin?
It is best to relieve the bladder every 4-6 hours just as a dog normally might ask to go outside to potty. I wonder if he might have a bladder infection. That would make releasing urine a painful burning thing and a reason to hold off til the last possible minutes to pee. When is the last he's had a urinalysis to prove there is no infection going on in the bladder?
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 2, 2014 13:23:52 GMT -7
Ok many thanks for that. I'm hoping he didn't lick any of the Sudocrem a few days ago before we started putting on the diapers, I'm sure I'd know if there was a problem though by now if he had?
I originally had him lying on thick soft blankets folded over a few times with a puppy pad in it as he was incontinent at the beginning and wetting himself constantly.
But since he has had the bed sore, I've put him in his own bed which is very soft and cushioned with a soft thick blanket over it for extra padding. With the diaper, he also has extra cushioning there too so I'm hoping that will help. I might look into getting him some memory foam though which might be better.. just need to find where I can get it.
Hmmm, I thought as much about the bladder - I would be happier if he was relieving himself more often. I'm due in the vets on Tuesday morning so I'ill check with him to see if he does have an infection. Or I might bring him tomorrow if there are any issues tonight. He still wasn't going to the loo at 5.30pm this evening since 8am this morning so I very gently pressed his bladder when outside (as we were out there 10 mins and still nothing) and then he started to go himself.
When we're outside, he gets into full swing of walking quickly (with his front legs) with me holding the back legs running after him. Should I prevent him from doing this? It's usually to sniff around and then sometimes he makes for the door of the house?
Many thanks again
Yvette x
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Post by Val & Charlie on Feb 2, 2014 14:40:06 GMT -7
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member 
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Feb 3, 2014 0:30:50 GMT -7
Hi Yvette, Teddy looks adorable!!!! I've been following your thread because my dog Hurley also had a disc surgery in January. It was actually his 3rd surgery (!), so I have a little prior experience which may or may not be helpful to you  It seems Teddy is able to stand up for a little while and since the stitches are now out, you have made it past the first big threshold! Congratulations!! You may want to ask your vet/PT if you could start trying to have him stand up when you feed him (but only if Teddy wants to). This is how we got started with the standing exercises with my Hurley. It is a small thing but in the doggie "head", it makes all the difference - they think they are getting better and more normal... It is also an incentive to stand up when they get food Have you read all the recovery tips on Dodgerslist (e.g. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm)? I really can recommend the literature this site has to offer! After the 2nd surgery, I followed the massage instructions to the point (supervised by our own PT), about 3 times a day, starting with not more than maybe 3-5 minutes at a time, and very slow easy movements - and I can wholeheartedly say that it made all the difference in Hurley's recovery! He gained his walking function in about 3-4 weeks and had recovered with no visible defects in about 9 weeks. Of course, every dog is different, the process is always slow, but it is definitely worth it! What you are doing / planning to do with the hydrotherapy and acupuncture is absolutely great, do not stop, but I think that what you do 24-7 at home with Teddy is likewise really important You asked about the walking. Our physiotherapist told us after the 2nd surgery when Hurley was paralyzed in his other hind leg that it is better to keep the walking pace really slow in the beginning right up until they gain full motor function in all legs. Small walks/sniffing around, max. 5 min at a time, 4-6 times a day. Of course, you do not want to yank Teddy if he decides to try to run, rather think of if you can be creative, finding a spot that he finds is interesting to sniff, so that he will slow down and take his time. Depending on Teddy's personality, talking to him may also help, dogs often stop to listen what their mommy has to say Anyway, it is really important he does not overburden the front legs, because that will cause stiff muscles that may cause other complications and slow down the overall healing process. Additionally, it will be really difficult to know if he has sore muscles or pain... So better to be on the safe side! Good luck and we are all here for you and Teddy!!! The moderators are a great resource, they have so much information, do not hesitate to ask more questions Love, Lola & Hurley the dachshund |
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 3, 2014 0:40:39 GMT -7
Lola, thank you so much for your advice and kind words!!! You poor thing with 3 surgeries for Hurley (who is gorgeous), oh my God that must have been stressful  I'm really hoping we don't go down that road, this is killing us as it is! We had been doing well until last night Poor Teddy has had the runs for the whole night. It started yesterday morning when he had a mushy poo and then nothing for the whole day. Then during the night, 3 times he had really bad runs. I'm not sure what's causing it - he's not on any meds so God knows what it is. I'm off to the vet first thing so in the next hour or so. so we'll see what they say. Thanks again for your advice, I'll have a look through your note properly when I get Teddy sorted. Many thanks, Yvette & Teddy xxxx |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 3, 2014 13:44:22 GMT -7
Let us know what the vet says about the diarrhea. Has there been any recent change in foods? What was the last dose of a steroid?
Diarrhea is a symptom for something. You might see if adding fiber can help with the symptom while your vet tries a treatment to deal with the cause.
Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 4, 2014 7:19:20 GMT -7
Hi Paula, thanks for that advice.. I'll have a look at that. Teddy is in much better form this morning thank God. He spent the morning in the vets yesterday for physio and nerve stimulation. The vet is really happy with his progress in that department. He did two pees today One this morning and then we had him out on the grass this afternoon as it was sunny for the first time in ages - he did another pee after sniffing around for a bit. He's really starting to show strength in his right leg which was making walking movements really clearly today!! Was delighted to see that. So I supported him while he walked forward. The vet said to let him walk around a little bit every day on the grass as it's soft. The vet didn't really know why he had the runs, but he gave me a probiotic paste to put in his food which he's had before. He did a poop earlier and it was looking much better - still not totally solid but not as runny as yesterday's so here's hoping. I'll have a look and see if I can find tinned pumpkin and see if that helps him as well. He had been on Eden dry kibble for the last year which was great for him but since he was sick, I had to give him soft tinned Royal Canin Gastro food mixed with a bit of boiled chicken and I had been sprinkling a tiny bit of his dry food on top. He still has the bedsore but it's healed a little bit, let's hope it continues to do so. That's all the news for today. Thanks everyone Yvette & Teddy xxx |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 4, 2014 15:04:24 GMT -7
Sounds like runny poop is going in the right direction of becoming firmer! Good news on the bedsore improving too!
A white potato, microwaved and mashed is also high in fiber. Sometimes tinned products have extra salt or sugar added, so that is why fresh produce is often better.
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Feb 5, 2014 9:26:29 GMT -7
Hey guys. Teddy did a solid poop earlier thank God!! I hope it continues as you just never know with him what way it'll go - we'll hope for the best. I had some sweet potato in the house so I boiled it and mashed it up for Teddy - just a small bit - but he didn't seem to like it!! it put him off his food so I'll try some of the pumpkin mashed as well and see if that works better.
The vet recommended Teddy walk a little unaided on the grass in small spurts as he felt he was ready - and sure enough, the sun came out for a few minutes today so I took the opportunity to bring him out and he did great. Still very wobbly but up on all fours and moving forward a little bit. The left leg is still much weaker but there's still movement in it, it was great to see him bless him.
x
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 5, 2014 9:34:10 GMT -7
Excellent news on the solid poop, Yvette! Very glad to see that. And what wonderful progress he has made in getting those legs to move in such a short time! Very good sign of nerve healing. Yes, bless the little guy, he's doing great. Hugs to you both. |
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Mar 5, 2014 2:41:09 GMT -7
Hi there, just wanted to give you a little update on Teddy. He's been doing well, gradually gaining more strength every day. His left hind leg is still quite weak but it is improving. I brought him for his first walk on the lead yesterday for a few minutes and he did really well. He was tired after but I've also brought him to a few hydrotherapy sessions. He's not a fan of the water though!! he was quite scared but the second time he was in the water tank (a week in between each session) he started to move the left leg much more which was great. Sometimes at night when he's sleeping (he sleeps in our room), he groans ever so slightly - it's not a whine, but just if he's repositioning himself he makes a little noise, it may be just sore muscles as his front legs have to work very hard as he still keeps most of the weight forward when he's standing or walking. But he's well able to move fast!!! particularly when my husband gets home from work he runs around in circles in the sitting room (we have a baby gate at the door so he doesn't run on the tiles as the left leg just goes from under him as he can't get traction).. he seems to be happy with himself that he can run around a little. He's eating really well, 3 small meals a day... and I take him out for regular pees which he does all the time himself on the grass. He doesn't quite have full control of his bowels. Particularly when he gets excited a poop pops out! He does them out the back garden too but he would have an accident regularly as well usually when things get exciting! So that's it ... we're so relieved he is showing signs of improvement so long may it continue! Many thanks, Yvette x  |
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 5, 2014 8:00:42 GMT -7
Be sure to take it slow, Yvette. Usually 6 weeks of crate rest are prescribed after surgery so it would appear as though Teddy is just starting to regain his muscle tone and stamina after crate rest. Here is our page on after crate rest that you might find helpful: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmIf Teddy overdoes it, he will have sore muscles and it will be difficult to tell whether his discomfort is from sore muscles or a re-injury. This all needs to be done very gradually so there's no set back. Please check with the surgeon as to exactly what Teddy is allowed to do at this point. Also, here's our page on making your house back friendly: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmPrayers for a full and complete recovery for Teddy. |
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Post by Yvette & Teddy on Mar 11, 2014 5:09:21 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie, thanks a mil for that information and the links.. just seeing those now and will print up and read.
Teddy had more nerve stimulation yesterday with the vet and he was happy with his progress.. He had hydrotherapy last week and they said I could take him out for short walks a few times a day. I only do it for 5 mins as he gets tired quite easily.
I'll be more careful though about crating him when someone comes in .. including my husband as he gets very excited and just wants to run... I'll take it bit by bit. He's still carrying a lot of his weight forward.. I'd really like to see his hind legs get stronger but I guess it'll take time. It's been 8 weeks today since his surgery so I may be expecting too much too soon!
The hydrotherapy and physiotherapists gave me some exercises to do with him so I've been doing those little by little.. sometimes he's not interested!! so I just do as much as I can.
Thanks again for all your valued advice xxx
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It seems Teddy is able to stand up for a little while and since the stitches are now out, you have made it past the first big threshold! Congratulations!! You may want to ask your vet/PT if you could start trying to have him stand up when you feed him (but only if Teddy wants to). This is how we got started with the standing exercises with my Hurley. It is a small thing but in the doggie "head", it makes all the difference - they think they are getting better and more normal... It is also an incentive to stand up when they get food 
I'm really hoping we don't go down that road, this is killing us as it is!