Lindsey's Coco 12/30 conservative relapse; 12/1 Surgery

Welcome to Dodgerslist, Lindsey. I'm so sorry to hear of Coco's difficulties.

Have you had Coco re-evaluated by the surgeon or neurologist? As good as your vet may be, vets usually don't see a great deal of IVDD cases and it sometimes takes an experienced eye to make a proper diagnosis. She may have had a relapse at the surgical site or it may be a new disc causing problems. Either way, you need to keep her in the crate 24/7, only being carried in and out to do potty with as few steps as possible to do her business. Since a new disc injury is suspected, you must treat it as such. Conservative care consists of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks and is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

Robaxin is a muscle relaxant and will help with the pain of the muscle spasms. The arched back, stiff neck and hesitancy to walk are all signs of pain. If those signs of pain are not resolved with the Robaxin, please speak to your vet today about adding a pain medication such as Tramadol. There should be no signs of pain from one dose of medication to the next and all pain should be resolved within one hour after taking the meds.

With this disease self education is critical. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

What are the exact doses in mgs and frequency of all meds? Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.

Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.

We have a very helpful DVD that will educate you, your family members and friends, pet sitters, etc. about caring for an IVDD dog. Please see the link in my signature line.

We're here for you and will help you and Coco through this.

Blessings to you both.

That's great that she's not in pain, Lindsey. When you get a chance, it would be helpful in our support of you and Lindsey if you'd let us know the dosages and frequencies of all meds. Tramadol works best when given consistently every 8 hours. Be sure to speak to your vet about including Pepcid AC to protect her GI tract.

Hopefully this is just a slight setback or if it's another episode that it's a mild one where conservative care would be the treatment. Please keep us updated.

Continued prayers for Coco.

Another question...should we still be doing her therapy during this time frame or wait til she is better? We haven't been-just strict crate rest. She still wobbly walks, has sensation, goes to bathroom, and doesn't act like she is in much pain. At times it seems as though her back is arched but it's hard to tell. We feed her in the crate, pick her up, and take her outside to potty. When she is outside, it doesn't seem like it is but when I bring her back it sometimes does. The weather is in the single digits where we live and sometimes I wonder if the cold causes her to curl up?? Ugh I dunno.

Lindsay, on whether to do true conservative treatment (100% STRICT rest 24/7 only out for a very few footsteps at potty time and for 8 weeks) is whether the pain was from soft tissue injury OR a re-injury to the operated on disc or a new disc.

Since you do not know which, it sounds prudent to assume it the worst that it is a disc involved and to act accordingly to protect the spinal cord and hope to avoid another surgery. The only way discs heal is with limited movement the recovery suite provides. 100% STRICT crate rest means no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the "assumed" bad disc. This video will help you get a feel for how a disc can cause trauma to the spinal cord and why crate rest has to be stricter than for a post op dog.


Coco is on medications (Tramdol and methocarbamol) that are supposed to relieve pain while it may take days/weeks for Rimadyl to get all the swelling resolved. She'll be feeling too good and want to move about more than is healthy for the "suspected" bad disc. That is the reason for being so strict with crate rest…to protect Coco from herself.

As Sabrina suggested do give a call and find out if there is any medical issue to prevent Coco from taking 5mg Pepcid AC every 12 hours.

Sabrina-
Is CoCo showing any of these signs when she is warm in her recovery suite? I haven't noticed any of those symptoms when she is in her recovery suite. She does get up and move around to make herself comfortable but doesn't yelp when she does it. Some of those things she does do---shivering/trembling, hold leg up flamingo-style--but again this is just when I bring her in from outside. Now it is snowing here and I don't think that helps any. When she is relaxed and has been inside for awhile, she seems her to be her usual relaxed self. So I think that it's safe to say that she is not having pain??

I will call the vet tomorrow and ask about Pepcid AC to prevent any GI bleeding. Is there any need for her to be on a steroid instead of the Rimadyl? I know there needs to be a wash-out period, but I didn't know if one worked better than the other for suspected swelling?

Paula- The video was very helpful in laying the disease process out there.

Lola- When we had surgery the vet said that since she already has other weakened areas that showed on her MRI, it put her at a higher risk for this happening again. She said that ultimately dogs will be dogs. Coco injured her back this time because she was hopping along the 6 foot privacy fence trying to catch a squirrel--we prevent her from jumping off furniture and even built a ramp for the back porch, but couldn't stop her from being a dog.

I appreciate all the support that everyone has been able to provide!! It's a great feeling knowing that others have been through the same thing and are knowledgeable regarding the disease.


Lola- Is your dog able to walk now?

Lindsay, I know! Dogs are always dogs and we cannot keep them crated 365 days a year! You did nothing wrong! This happens, I am sharing my story because I know how you feel! The first week after the relapse I was so miserable, just thinking, what did I do wrong. But it just is bad luck. Dogs run and play and we cannot keep an eye on them every second of the day...

Hurley can now walk, but we obviously keep him fully crated, only out at potty times and even then, minimum steps. When this relapse happened 2.5 weeks ago, all of a sudden we noticed he was not able to walk, or he would "try" to walk with 3 legs, the fourth one, right back leg, he was just holding in a flamingo like position, up, would not put any weight on it and it was really hurting. It is the same leg which was paralyzed in August which is why he had the surgery. Now, it took us 1 week to get him to a point where we were able to say he was not experiencing pain and started putting some weight on the leg. But once we started tapering the steroids, the pain returned. So we are basically almost back to zero again. We will try to taper end of this week again. But at least he can walk a little now. Like Coco, he would shiver and tremble the first days when carried inside, and when the pain got worse, he would be panting. This we got under control by changing to steroids and increasing the pain medication. I think you know your dog, and if any pain, demand better pain medication.

For the Pepcid AC we did not need a prescription, our vet said it does not do any harm to give it. We give 1/2 tablet 30 min. before food and medication, twice a day. Ask your vet, you should be able to give it, I think, because Rimadyl can also cause all sorts of nasty stuff in the stomach...?? As for the difference with Rimadyl / steroids, aren't steroids stronger? If Coco does well on Rimadyl maybe no need to change? We only had to change from Rimadyl to steroids since Rimadyl was not helping Hurley, but it was difficult; first stop Rimadyl, then wait several days before starting steroids. In the meanwhile, he was in pain... it was awful. If your vet suggests changing from Rimadyl to steroids, please study carefully the good guidelines of Dodgerslist moderators, the process is tricky!)

It will get better! We've tried both cold laser and electroacupuncture, when done together it seems to have given the best results. Hurley has been much better already the next day after treatment. For us, the cost was about 75$ per treatment time, I think it was worth the money, but it's not cheap, that's for sure. We are also now feeding him supplements, such as fish oil, Cetyl M and Duralactin, also Adequan injections (should be no problem for you since you are a nurse, I found it very difficult in the beginning to poke Hurley with a needle...), to see if they assist in the recovery. The fish oil I hear takes time to build up in the system, so no short term benefit, but I hope Hurley will live long after this, so fingers crossed

I hope Coco feels better today, let us know how she's doing.

I'm so glad Coco is doing so well. And you are right, sometimes it is hard to tell if there is a variation in strength...if only they could speak to us. We'll be anxious to hear updates and how the appointment with the surgeon goes.

Hi Lindsey,

It may very well be the extreme cold that is bothering her but I would still inform the surgeon about the flamingo leg thing  just in case. as that is one of the symptoms of pain.  We all can get sore in this kind of weather and that could be the case with Coco.. You are keeping a great eye on her..It sure would help us if our dogs could talk..

Thanks Lola and Pauliana! She has been doing great going outside lately!! Go figure-lowest temps ever and she's going now, lol. We have 8 inches of snow here and an small square shoveled for her to go potty, so the smell is pretty strong and she goes potty right away. She used to hate we sweater but now she doesn't mind it in he negative temps. Still lifting her back leg up sometimes and even though that is a sign of pain, she is acting COMPLETELY normal otherwise (obviously besides wobbly walk but we will get there). Still on crate rest despite he dislike. Has anyone even heard of dogs having a compressed nerve or anything that would cause this sensitivity. Lola....what did the vet say about it?

Just to clear up any confusion the flamingo leg thing is indeed a sign of back problems, though as with anything in medicine (human or animal) it is not ALWAYS a sign of a disc episode nor is it used to either rule out or make a diagnosis of back pain.

The reason the dog may lift that leg and be reluctant to stand on it is the discomfort due to the pressure on the nerves that supply the legs. It can be a sensation of pain which is usually exacerbated when pressure or weight is placed on the leg. Or it can be the tingly sensation when nerves are aggravated. Think of times your hand has fallen asleep, the last thing you want is to touch it or have anything touch it until it "wakes up" again. The limp leg is a more severe sign of trouble in that disc, an indicator that the nerve is not functioning at all. Neither is an indicator of how lasting the damage will be though as many many dogs have had complete recovery after being limp in both hind legs.