Pattee's Jezzibel 12/11 conservative

Welcome to Dodgerslist Pattee!  Sorry to hear that Jezzibel is at the ER but hopefully they will get her on the right track to recovery.. 

Please let Jezzibel know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease, self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

If they do an MRI and then surgery the crate rest time is 6 weeks.  Here is a link that explains the two treatments, conservative and surgery so you can make an informed decision:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

Can you give us a bit more in essential information about your dog, I realize she isn't home yet and you won't know the answers to some of the questions until she is released to come home.

-- Please confirm that you have today started doing the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7.

-- Is there still currently pain? Signs of pain are holding the head in an unusual position, head held high or nose to the ground, shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, arched back, holding leg up flamingo style, not wanting to bear weight on the leg, just not their usual perky-interested-in-life self. There should be no signs of pain from one dose of medication to the next; otherwise, the pain meds need to be immediately adjusted.

-- What are the exact names, dose in mg's and frequency of all meds? Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.

-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?

-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

-- Eating and drinking OK?

-- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

The best way for you to help your dog is by learning about this disease. Here are some links to get you started. Please click on all of them to get a good background of understanding. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.

Sending soothing and comforting thoughts your way.. Please do keep us posted on how Jezzibel is doing.

Pattee, glad she is now home with you, dogs heal alot better at home.

In order for us to best support you we need you to fill us in.

--What are the exact names of the meds she is using at home.  The dose in  mg's and how often you give them?
Pepcid AC to protect the stomach.  Usually 5mg 2x a day
Prednisone  is that a 5 or 7 day course before the taper would start?
pain med(s) so she is not shivering, yelping or hesitant to move

-- Let us know that she is always in her recovery suite except when you carry her to and from the potty place. She is only allow a very, very few footsteps to get the job done, then carried back in.  The sling would be a long winter scarf, a belt, etc. to keep her back end aligned and rear from tipping over.   The harness is to keep her from running off unexpectedly as dogs are wont to do.  Setting up a 6 foot diameter area ex-pen in the grass would be another option to keep them from darting off


-- Let us know you do NOT see any signs of pain… not her  normal perky self, yelps, shivers after moving or nearing the next dose of pain meds.

-- Let us know she does have bladder control. That means you do not find urine leaks in her bedding. She does not leak on you when lifted. When outdoors and set on an old pee spot she will sniff and then decide that is the right place to release urine.  While on pred IF she does have bladder control expect to carry  her out to potty every 3-4 hours.  IF you tell us she leaks on you or in her bedding, you would need a lesson on how to express the bladder..and that would be aprox every 2-3 hours as you are learning a new skill.  Let us know what you observe.    If a lesson is needed, first review this material to get the most out of the lesson  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

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Hi, Pattee

Is the Gabapentin fully controlling Jezzibel's pain? There should be absolutely no signs of pain from one dose of the pain med to the next. Gabapentin is usually given in combination with Tramadol. If you see any signs of pain at all, like the shivering you were seeing, please immediately contact your vet so that pain meds can be adjusted.

Please know that the nerve damage that Jezzibel has may take a long time to heal. There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag!

1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk.
3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine.
4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.

Your vet is calling for a taper of the Prednisone in four days. The reason for a taper is to test for pain. Your job at that time will be to keep a close watch for any signs of pain returning. If there are any signs of pain, then the vet must be advised of that and the taper should not be continued. Pain indicates that there is still swelling in the spine. Pain = swelling = more time on meds.

If Jezzibel is taking too many steps during potty time, you might find it helpful to make a small potty area for her with either an ex-pen or push-in-the-ground fencing, about 6' round. That will limit the amount of steps she'll take to do her business. Make sure she is able to release urine on her own. If you find wet bedding or if she leaks on you when you pick her up, that would indicate that she has lost bladder control and needs to be expressed. At that point, you would need a hands on your hands demonstration on how to express. Here is our information on expressing: here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

All the best to you both.

I know how hard it is to see your beloved dog not be able to stand. Hopefully, that nerve damage will reverse but it may take some time. Good news on the tail wag!

Hang in there. It's very early days yet. You're doing a good job with her.

Hugs.

Hi Pattee, I'm Sabrina. Jezzibel has such a sweet face!

I'm so glad that her stomach is being protected! The best timing for giving PepcidAC is 30min before the Pred.

This page on the Dodger'sList main site outlines considerations for surgery, and compares and contrasts surgery vs. conservative treatment:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

With disc disease, there are four phases of healing:
(1) Pain control - the meds need to keep Jezzibel 100% pain free dose to dose so that her body can get to work healing.
(2) Swelling reduction - the anti-inflammatory (pred for Jezzibel) works to resolve the swelling and inflammation that are the cause of the pain. This can take several weeks to a month or more - like Marjorie said, the taper is the "test" to see if the pred has done it's job yet.
(3) Secure scar tissue forms around the disc to protect it - during conservative treatment, this happens with the 8 weeks of 100% crate rest.
(4) Regaining neurological function - this can happen weeks to months to years later. There is no "expiration date" for healing nerves!

If you scroll down on this page there is more info on each stage of healing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm
"True success with IVDD is measured by the most important goal of returning your dog to a pain free, happy and full-of-love quality of life after crate rest!"

))Hugs!((
- Sabrina

Hi Pattee!

You can put the crate on your bed next to you if there is room. Tyler our dog liked to nap on the bed next to us but after his IVDD episodes we put the crate up on the bed between us and we would pet him through the wire. He still felt close to us and that seemed to soothe him.. We did everything we could to incorporate his crate rest into our daily lives so he never felt isolated or neglected. 

 It's important that she be crated for the protection of her healing disc. All it would take is a noise and she could go "flying" off that bed and seriously injure herself..  They always do the unexpected in the blink of an eye.  

Well Jezzibel has hit a plateau at about 80% but I fear once completely off the steroids she'll spiral backwards.

I asked for a script at the animal hospital but they declined. My reason was both medications are VERY EXPENSIVE from the hosp but I can get them .20 each on 1-800-PetMeds where I order all supplies for my dogs. When I asked them why they claimed it was the 'dispensing fee's' :/
BUT last Friday when I took her home 7 5mg Prednesone pills were $19.00
When I went back for more 3 pills, were $18.00!

Now the Gabapentin is a mere .25 per 100mg pill and I paid $24.

I paid over $900 for an overnight stay and feel it would've been far less had they been fairly pricing the meds.