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Post by gusgusmama on Aug 10, 2013 14:11:52 GMT -7
-What is your dog's name?
Gus Gus-age 6
--What breed is your dog and did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD?
Red brindle mini dachshund. He experienced his second episode yesterday and was taken straight to the doc. She told us he had signs of neurological damage on his right side and was in the beginning stages of IVDD. We are scheduled to go back to the vet this week for more information.
-- What was the date you saw the vet and started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7?
He was crated as soon as we got home yesterday afternoon. It was a very long night. Every time I have to put him back in the crate I start to cry. I will be upgrading him from a cat sized crate to a little larger crate immediately.
-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy?
He seems to be completely better today although very tired from all the pain yesterday. My husband keeps reminding me that we need to keep him confined even though he appears to be well.
-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies?
He was given a shot of cartrophen [Pentosan Polysulphate Sodium] yesterday which was recommended once a week for four weeks total. We were also sent home with 15 5mg prednisone tablets to be given ONLY if his condition worsened over the weekend. He was given one last night after we arrive home from the vet clinic. He could not stand up without crying in pain and could barely walk. He was also recommended 250 mg of gluscosimine daily which we started yesterday. I am uncertain if we should continue with the prednisone since he is feeling better.
-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?
Today he can walk just fine. He has been noticeably careful when rising.
-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?
No
-- Eating and drinking OK?
Eating was a little difficult last night but is doing fine today.
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood?
Poop is okay, perhaps a little hard.
~I am very new to all of this so any advice, information, or kind words would be very helpful to hear
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 10, 2013 16:51:48 GMT -7
Kyla, welcome to Dodgerslist. YOu have come to the right place to learn how to care and protect Gus Gus! We are glad you are here. Can you tell us which country you live in… I ask because cartrophen is a Canadian veterinary product. #1 is to have pain fully under control. Gus is not on any pain meds. That noticelby careful when rising is a reluctance to move….he is in pain. Please relate your observations and advocate strongly that Gus needs to be pain free. Pain is so important to the overall well-being of a patient that it has become the 5th cardinal sign of human assessment. (Philips DM. JCAHO pain management standards are unveiled. J.Am Med Association 284(4):428-429, 2000) Pain affects blood pressure, heart rate, appetite, and general mood. This page is where you learn just how long it takes for a disc to heal www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm ….the recovery suite for 8 weeks with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty is what allows the disc to heal. Please read on to get up to speed on this disease and become an integral part of Gus' health care team: Pain affects blood pressure, heart rate, appetite, and general mood Prednisone is not a pain reliever. It is an anti-inflammatory that can not be given and stopped like other meds. During the time on the anti-inflammatory pain meds need to be on board and adjusted so that there is no pain surfacing dose to dose of pain relief medications. Pain deters healing. Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the necessary taper off of pred the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed. If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to completion. Then no meds at all are needed any longer. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or back off too. STomach protection is necessary when anti-inflammatories are in use. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlLet us know Pepcid AC is on board, what the name of the pain meds prescribed are (dose in mg's and frequency you may give them). What is the frequency prescribed for the 5mg Pred tablets each day? Do not abruptly stop the pred. Your vet will give you a tapering schedule, let us know what it is and the date it would start…. |
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Post by gusgusmama on Aug 11, 2013 11:52:31 GMT -7
Paula,
Thank you for all of your helpful information. It is nice to talk to someone that has already given me more information that any vet has told me. His vet said the Pred should only be given if his pain worsened (which on Friday after we left the vet, it did). She said to give 5mg/2x a day for 3 days, then 1 once daily for 3 days, then 1 every other day until gone. We were given 15 tablets. The vet expressed some concern because the first time he had an injury (about 3 months ago) his liver enzymes spiked and liver was damaged. She said that the Pred should not be used if he still has an existing problem with his liver. We will find all this out when we go back in this week. We have decided to do a full blood work but have not decided whether or not to get x-rays or an MRI. I don't know which would be more helpful.
Yes, we live in the US. We live in Montana and are right on the border to Canada which is possibly why that med was chosen. I have concerns about putting him in a crate for the rest of his life. It seems like if for every injury he needs to spend 8 weeks in a crate and, lets say, he has an injury every two months, that would mean that he would always be in a crate. I will advocate for pain control and will be making changes about letting him jump up and vigorous play but I am not sure that I want him to be in a crate permanently. I feel that his happiness is equally important as caring for his health. Thoughts?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 11, 2013 12:22:24 GMT -7
Kyla, well I live down the street, so-to-speak, from you in Columbia Falls.
Any anti-inflammatory carries side effects so having blood work before Rxing these meds help to know the health of organs such as the liver.
Xrays would be used to rule out other issues such as fractures, tumors, infection. Usually the history of the dog, whether he has had other disc problems, if the breed is prone to IVDD which Dachshunds are and how the dog presents during the hands on neuro exam, can pretty much allow a good diagnosis. If pred doesn't show signs of working…that is getting swelling down while pain meds give comfort, then you vet may want to figure out what else could be the problem with an xray. An MRI is usually done just right before surgery to plan out the procedure.
NOrmally after 8 weeks the disc will have scared over and physical activity can again resume. We don't permanently crate a dog just like when an arm is broken we don't permanently put on a cast for life. The cast and the crate are just a way to allow the disc to heal.
The hard part about this disease is it is not predictable. We never know when or even if another disc will prematurely age enough to no longer support the vertebrae's pushing. Some dogs have only one episode their entire life while other may have 2-3 episodes. I would not expect that Gus would be having a disc episode every two months.
How is his pain today…any shivering, moving gingerly, yelping?
The vet rightfully has him on a VERY short 3 day course of pred before starting the taper. Since he has has liver issues, blood work is in order. On the begin of the taper is when to look for any hint of a pain surfacing. Typically then another course of pred would be tried and then another test taper. Until the blood work is in, it is good to be cautious with Pred. What this vet should NOT be cautious with is pain meds….there should be no patience with pain. With the right pain med(s) on board, pain is under control in an hour and stays that way dose to dose. Protection of the stomach is very important, let us know when you have Pepcid AC on board.
Please keep us updated.
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Post by gusgusmama on Aug 11, 2013 13:44:58 GMT -7
Wow what are the odds of us living so close?! We just moved from Whitefish to Eureka. He was seeing Dr. Calm out in Kila when we lived in the Flathead. I am strongly considering making a monthly trip down for acupuncture and we will also be seeing an animal naturalist here in Eureka. Today Gus seems to be feeling well. As with his other injury, he appears to be fine the next day. He is still in his crate but we did take some time today to sit/lay outside in the sun! He seemed to enjoy that. No limping at all today. He seems to be drinking alot of water today.
Its good to know that Gus will most likely not be permanently in the crate. That brings me alot of relief. I also did not know that some Dachshunds will only have a few episodes. Very good to know. I will find out tomorrow when we will go in for our appointments. Hopefully early this week. Thanks again Paula.
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Post by gusgusmama on Dec 8, 2013 16:27:09 GMT -7
On Dec 1st. Gus experienced another injury. After his last injury in August we crated him for about a week then restricted him from jumping up on the cough for more than a month. After that, we became lax about him jumping on the couch (which I know regret). After his injury this past week, he has been on strict crate rest [since 12/1] and is being carried out for meals and bathroom breaks.
5mg of pred was given immediately and the next day we started
tramadol 12.5 mg. He received 2 doses per day for the 1st 3 days. Then one dose a day then nothing for 2 days
which brings us up to today. I thought he was feeling better for when he would leave his crate he was putting weight on his right back leg and no yelping or crying.
This morning upon taking him out for his breakfast, he refused to put set his foot down at all and has yelped once when picking him up (not nearly as bad as right after his injury). I'm fearing that he is slowly getting nerve damage to his right back leg. When this all began, I decided that surgery and putting him in a wheelchair was not an option. I am wondering if any other owners have their pets walking on 3 legs only and, if so, how it seems to be working? I also decided that keeping him in a crate permanently was not an option either. I'm struggling to figure out what to do next.
Gus is 6 years old and weighs 14.4 pounds. This is his 3rd injury this year.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 9, 2013 10:12:24 GMT -7
Oh dear Kyla, sorry to hear Gus is having another disc episode. Your vet has prescribed a short 3 day course of Pred and then called for a taper to test the waters on whether painful swelling had been resolved. Let your vet know of your observation of pain. Rule of thumb: pain = swelling = need to continue meds a bit longer before trying another taper. Often it takes being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Which foot would he not bear weight on front or back? 100% STRICT Crate rest 24/7 is how a disc heals itself. It takes 8 weeks of limited movement that a recovery suite provides to have the disc form good secure scar tissue. Movement during the formation of scar tissue will disrupt that process. There are four phases of healing during a disc episode (pain, swelling, nerves disc). EAch take a different way to heal, different amount of time. This page will help you quickly absorb this needed information: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmLet us know what adjustments to pred the vet made and that you do have his stomach protected with Pepcid AC (famotidine). |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 9, 2013 10:21:24 GMT -7
I just wanted to add that Gus should be eating all of his meals inside the crate. The only time he should be out of the crate is to be carried in and out to do potty (with as few steps as possible to do his business) and to a vet. You want to minimize the movement of his spine as much as possible. Any time out of the crate is a dangerous time for a dog on conservative care.
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