Rosie senior doxie 12/6 Conservative - RIP

Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name's Marjorie - what's yours?

There are two methods of treatment for IVDD episodes - one is surgery - the other is conservative care. Conservative care consists of 8 weeks of strict crate rest, an anti-inflammatory to bring down the swelling in the spine and pain medications to control the pain. Many dogs recover the ability to walk again with conservative care. There is absolutely no reason to think of euthanizing Rosie. She has every chance of recovering. Please don't despair. IVDD is not a death sentence. Many dogs regain use of their legs and even if they don't, their lives can be happy ones.
www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm

The first thing that needs to be done is to get Rosie's pain under control. The fact that she's been up all night crying indicates that her pain has not been brought under control. There should be no signs of pain from one dose of pain meds to the next. Contact your vet immediately to tell him that Rosie is still in pain and that her pain meds need to be adjusted. Sometimes it takes a combination of three meds to bring the pain under control - Tramadol, Methacarbomal and Gabapentin. Once her pain is brought under control, then she can heal in comfort.

The only way to tell if Rosie has bladder control is to try a sniff and pee test. Take her to a spot where she's peed before, let her sniff and see if she can release urine. Support her hips while doing this but don't press on her belly so you can see if she's releasing on her own. Since she resisted having the vet express her bladder, she may still have some control. If she cannot release urine on her own, she will need to be expressed. It sounds as though you did a form of expressing when you massaged her. Here are some tips on expressing:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

Please let your dog know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

Can you give us a bit more in essential information about Rosie:

-- What are the exact names, dose in mg's and frequency of all meds?

-- Can Rosie move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?



-- Eating and drinking OK?

-- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all meds and there is no pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk but only after all meds are stopped and there is no pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm

Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.

We have a very helpful DVD that will educate you, your family members and friends, pet sitters, etc. about caring for an IVDD dog. Please see the link in my signature line.

Please confirm that 100% strict crate rest has been started today.  Please also let us know what the vet says after speaking to him about Rosie's pain.  We're here for you and will help you and Rosie through this.

I'm so very sorry to hear this.  RIP, Rosie.

As for Willey, it sounds as though you're doing most of these but here are some tips on how to protect his back.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm (see #8)

The best place to start educating yourself about IVDD for Willey and future dogs is on this page - click on each link:
www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Doxielove60, there is such pain when we loose our friends.  

We never learned from you all the details of med doses and frequency so we are not sure ourselves if Rosie's ending was premature or not.

Because you have Willey and asked, I share this information in case it maybe of help to him IF there were to be a disc episode..

1. Aggressive pain meds MUST be employed during a disc episode. Often that will mean using three pain meds (methocarbamol, tramadol and gabapentin)  Aggressive doses in mg's AND aggressive frequency of 3x a day may be necessary too. Each dog's pain tolerance is different and meds must be adjusted to meet each dog's individual needs that takes working with the vet, feeback so he knows to adjust.   Panting can be a temporary side effect of tramadol and steroids. A fan near but not pointed at the recovery suite can help.

2. Stomach protection is often accomplished with Pepcid AC. Again some dogs are less tolerant of steroids. Not eating is a red flag sign that a second stomach protector needs to be on board with Pepcid AC. That stomach protector is called sucralfatehttp://www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.html  

3. Anti-inflammatory often will take 1-2 weeks to get all the painful swelling down in the spinal cord. That is the reason proper adjustment of pain medications is so crucial..so the dog can heal in comfort and you can care for his bathroom needs, etc. without causing pain.

Some vets are just not comfortable with treating a disc episode and say surgery or PTS. I would review Rosie's treatment and decide if you would need to find a vet who knows IVDD. In the end the person who HAS to know IVDD is you.  As you are the one who needs to actually be the captain of the health care team. You make decisions on hiring a vet for their knowledge. You monitor all meds just like the nurse at a hospital does, reports back to the Doc and adovcates for the patient. Being captain requires you are IVDD knowledgable enough to spot problems, ability to discuss treatment with the vet.

Rosie's legacy to Willey could be increased knowledge.  12-13 years old is not old in terms if a surgery were to be needed. IVDD is not a grim (fatal) prognosis, it is a disease we can live with, success is not determined by one thing…dogs have a totally different perspective on walking and wheelchairs than humans do.

Diet
Try 10% reduction of food, Willey can begin to loose that extra weight over a period of 3-4 months.

Weigh at least monthly to determine if the amount fed is appropriate. You will also be observing appearance to judge when she is at an ideal weight. It takes 3-4 months to safely drop excess weight by cutting food intake slowly and adding exercise that will be permissible after crate rest.
www.nonprofitnw.org/drnw/id47.html [good appearance illustrations here]

A 10-15% reduction of food is not very much. For example, if you feed:
            1/3 of a cup = 5 tablespoons = 15 teaspoons
then you should only reduce each meal at a max of 1 ½ to 2 teaspoons. You could then add some lo cal raw carrot, apple or frozen green beans, or a frozen broth cube to lick on to help with hunger at meal times or as a snack.

More detail on loosing weight and choosing foods: www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-lose-weight

((hugs)) to you in your time of grief and success in building Rosie's legacy for Willey!